Lars Eller

[Sterling Archer]

You mean like Habnot's strawmen and hyperbolic arguments? Yeah, he's pretty good at doing the exact thing said in the bolded part of your post.

It's like arguing with a chicken with its head cut off sometimes. You say one thing and the other(s) make a bunch of comments that have close to nothing to what you said and all of a sudden you're expected to continue arguing their points. I blame video games, Gainey and Bork for this.

 

[Sterling Archer]

...so that's what you're trying to do...well, sorry to be the one to tell you, amigo, you're failing...

Back to the emoji's again? Thought you were over them.

I had hope for you but now it's all gone like any credibility or point you may have had, no matter how ill conceived or in err it was. So sad.

 

[Kachino]

Guys, Eller will not get 1st or 2nd wave PP. It's just not going to happen in the current circumstances. When Eller played his best hockey which was during last season's playoffs, he never really got any extended time on the PP despite how struggling the PP was, despite Eller being being by far our best forward. At the most CRUCIAL time of the year, Therrien had the choice to include Bourque and Eller but he decided to not change his PP units since it was always the same guys over and over again. Honestly, why would he change it right now when it's just the regular season and that everybody on his first 2 PP units are healthy?

That Eller line was playing monster hockey 5 v 5 during those playoffs and some could just imagine what they could have done with one less opponent on the ice ... However, some will argue that on the PP, you need your best players in order to score. Well how many great PPs did we have with the 1st and 2nd line on the ice? Subban fricken saved the team's PP with his slapshot goals.

You guys can argue all you want about this issue but the coach is named to take decisions and he will die with those decisions. He took the decision to put Paccioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher on the 1st PP unit and will live with it. It is what it is, as frustrating as it is. We can argue among us but it's just not going to change especially when everybody is healthy. The only thing that can change that is injuries.

 

[Andy]

It's like arguing with a chicken with its head cut off sometimes. You say one thing and the other(s) make a bunch of comments that have close to nothing to what you said and all of a sudden you're expected to continue arguing their points. I blame video games, Gainey and Bork for this.

Man, this post sums up the exact type of argumentation you employ, especially the bolded. You refer to Eller's greatness, which no one every said. You accuse others of saying MB has the dumbest management group, which no one said. Then, your entire argument based on an appeal to an authority while turning a blind eye to nuance. You offer nothing of substance and then mock others.

 

[Habnot]

Man, this post sums up the exact type of argumentation you employ, especially the bolded. You refer to Eller's greatness, which no one every said. You accuse others of saying MB has the dumbest management group, which no one said. Then, your entire argument based on an appeal to an authority while turning a blind eye to nuance. You offer nothing of substance and then mock others.

Nuance, really? Is it nuanced to blame MT for everything perceived wrong on this team, while not respecting what he's accomplished?

It not nuance, it a sledgehammer - and that's what gets me going.

And I like Eller - I'm just not going to whitewash his role or effort and just blame the coaching staff or the players he plays with.

 

[Miller Time]

A coach's job is to exploit his players' assets and talents. There is no player on the team who's talent is wasted more than Eller. MT is really losing out on a positive here in the way he conceives of his role.

He sees Eller as a checker instead of a player who can provide a two-way tertiary scoring role. It's an archaic way of looking at the game.

DD and Eller are completely polar opposites in this case. The coach will go to length's end to exploit every ounce of the former's limited skills, while the latter is a complete after thought. It's a shame because Eller can be so much more.

Your hatred of MT has no bounds....

It just doesn't happen in the NHL that a 5 man coaching group as well as 3-4 GM and assistant GM's would just let a coach wield that much authority on player usage and evaluation. This is not Pee Wee BB coaching, these are the best of the best. It's not only MT doing the evaluation, it the whole organization so unless this is a group conspiracy you are barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks for taking it of the context of the post I was responding to.

Andy posted that MT is responsible for misreading Ellers greatness, weren't discussing ice time.

hmm… so in your mind, "two-way tertiary scoring role" = greatness?

low standards i guess.


and what does ice time have to do with the hyperbolic nonsense of "hatred"?

#fail

 

[Andy]

Nuance, really? Is it nuanced to blame MT for everything perceived wrong on this team, while not respecting what he's accomplished?

It not nuance, it a sledgehammer - and that's what gets me going.

And I like Eller - I'm just not going to whitewash his role or effort and just blame the coaching staff or the players he plays with.

Another strawman. Never said that. I do think Eller's production is intimately tied to his role however, and only the coach has control of this. You might say that it's up to Eller to force his hand, but even if Eller does so (and this has happened multiple times in the last year), the coach won't and hasn't acted.

Whose fault it for continuously playing Bourque when he's been awful for three years now? It's Bourque's fault for continuously being in the lineup right

I blame the coach when there are issues stemming from player management. I blame the players when they are playing bad and I blame the GM for making bad acquisitions. I give kudos to the coaching staff for good decisions, for players who play well and for GMs who make good acquisitions. I don't totalize. I'll save that for you since you seem to be so good at it.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Man, this post sums up the exact type of argumentation you employ, especially the bolded. You refer to Eller's greatness, which no one every said. You accuse others of saying MB has the dumbest management group, which no one said. Then, your entire argument based on an appeal to an authority while turning a blind eye to nuance. You offer nothing of substance and then mock others.

Again, creating points that I apprently made but actually didn't. Just like when someone said I loved DD after posting right before that I wasn't a big fan of his. Now you're Cherry picking a part of a post that was used to make a completely different point that I said with sarcasm but you're now using against me. You are arguably the worst at this. Thy and your insesent use of "straw man" is beyond annoying. But you keep on trying to sound like your smarter than anyone else but distorting their facts to prove your point.

Nuance, really? Is it nuanced to blame MT for everything perceived wrong on this team, while not respecting what he's accomplished?

It not nuance, it a sledgehammer - and that's what gets me going.

And I like Eller - I'm just not going to whitewash his role or effort and just blame the coaching staff or the players he plays with.

That's all par for the course for Andy best used to it and the use if straw man. He REALLY loves that term.

 

[MasterDecoy]

It's like arguing with a chicken with its head cut off sometimes. You say one thing and the other(s) make a bunch of comments that have close to nothing to what you said and all of a sudden you're expected to continue arguing their points. I blame video games, Gainey and Bork for this.

well played son, well played....

 

[Andy]

Again, creating points that I apprently made but actually didn't. Just like when someone said I loved DD after posting right before that I wasn't a big fan of his. Now you're Cherry picking a part of a post that was used to make a completely different point that I said with sarcasm but you're now using against me. You are arguably the worst at this. Thy and your insesent use of "straw man" is beyond annoying. But you keep on trying to sound like your smarter than anyone else but distorting their facts to prove your point. .

Oops, sorry, i thought I was quoting Habnot in my post. Didn't realize it was you. You guys have similar avatars. Didn't realize at all.

If using the word strawman argument is annoying, try having to read one over and over again.

If you're going to blame someone for distortion, you should point your fingers at habnot for accusing us of saying Eller is great and MB is dumb when we've done no such thing.

For the record, I am not distorting his facts, but his logic...which I think is flawed.

 

[Habnot]

Oops, sorry, i thought I was quoting Habnot in my post. Didn't realize it was you. You guys have similar avatars. Didn't realize at all.

If using the word strawman argument is annoying, try having to read one over and over again.

If you're going to blame someone for distortion, you should point your fingers at habnot for accusing us of saying Eller is great and MB is dumb when we've done no such thing.

It's called inference...

And they are not my facts - facts are facts.

 

[Milhouse40]

All summer long....Galchenyuk will need a place at center.
Then we had these long posts about Plekanec or DD.

DD's Fans:
Plekanec lost his offensive
Desharnais is a better offensive player
Plekanec is slowing down and need to be traded

And those few defending Plekanec were saying:
Look at context, look at their linesmates
Plekanec would be as good as DD in an offensive role
Plekanec suffer from heavy defensive load and bad linesmates

Guess what, Plekanec got more of an offensive role right now. He's got good offensive linesmates and he's the best player on that team at both end of the ice. Even if Plekanec gets secondary offensive game situation/linesmates, he's better than Desharnais. WE were right after all.

Same thing apply here.

 

[Sterling Archer]

well played son, well played....

Just happy it made someone laugh.

Oops, sorry, i thought I was quoting Habnot in my post. Didn't realize it was you. You guys have similar avatars. Didn't realize at all.

If using the word strawman argument is annoying, try having to read one over and over again.

If you're going to blame someone for distortion, you should point your fingers at habnot for accusing us of saying Eller is great and MB is dumb when we've done no such thing.

For the record, I am not distorting his facts, but his logic...which I think is flawed.

No worries, it happens. But for the record, I think you're simplifying Habnots argument down and not seeing what he's trying to say. I have no skin in either your arguments but see it going off the rails for both of you. That's why I made the point I did about people misconstruing others posts. You're both doing it with each other. Just saying, as an outsider.

You do use straw man way too often though

 

[Andy]

You do use straw man way too often though

I may use the word often, but Habnot employs that type of argument. So long as he does, I will use it.

 

[Hoople]

So useful that MB didn't hesitate to dump him.

Also, I like how you conveniently ignore the useless of Murray and Parros. We could even add the dud trade that was Drewiske. But all the moves were good and we can't criticize them because ECF. great argument.

Its easy and convenient to dump on Murray.

Meanwhile, because we do not have effective defensive DMen, Markov is now forced to play 30 minutes per game........because 6 minutes of that time last night was on the PK.

Subban, our, $9M â„¢ DMan is not getting the minutes on the PK. Murray was more valuable than you think. Without him, Markov has been forced to carry the load because Gilbert, Subban, Tinordi (rookie) and yes Weaver have not been solid on D.

But that's another subject for another thread.

All Eller has to do is score points. With his linemates or in spite of his linemates. As of this season, he has not put himself in a position to ask for a promotion nor is he deserving of the propping up that he is getting on this thread.

It all rests on his shoulders (or on his stick). I hope he succeeds.

 

[Hoople]

I don't think so but I think he did the overall risk reward rating adjusted for QoC at the end the last two seasons.

Like I said earlier QoC doesn't mean much over a season except at the extremes. QoT and zone starts have been found to have a much bigger effect. And Eller doesn't really play soft comp, especially in a league where teams try to roll three scoring lines.

What????

DD and Pleks are forced to play against the top two lines and against the top pairing DMen. QoC has a lot to do with performance.

As stated earlier, Eller is playing against bottom 6 lines. If he was on his offensive A Game, he should be able to exploit that.

If you were a head coach on an opposing team, would you put your top pair DMen against the DD line or the Eller line?

 

[ECWHSWI]

What????

DD and Pleks are forced to play against the top two lines and against the top pairing DMen. QoC has a lot to do with performance.

As stated earlier, Eller is playing against bottom 6 lines. If he was on his offensive A Game, he should be able to exploit that.

If you were a head coach on an opposing team, would you put your top pair DMen against the DD line or the Eller line?

I'd like to see the numbers for those...

 

[Miller Time]

Its easy and convenient to dump on Murray.

Meanwhile, because we do not have effective defensive DMen, Markov is now forced to play 30 minutes per game........because 6 minutes of that time last night was on the PK.

Subban, our, $9M â„¢ DMan is not getting the minutes on the PK. Murray was more valuable than you think. Without him, Markov has been forced to carry the load because Gilbert, Subban, Tinordi (rookie) and yes Weaver have not been solid on D.

But that's another subject for another thread.

All Eller has to do is score points. With his linemates or in spite of his linemates. As of this season, he has not put himself in a position to ask for a promotion nor is he deserving of the propping up that he is getting on this thread.

It all rests on his shoulders (or on his stick). I hope he succeeds.

yeah…. then we recall that Subban played ~1min/G more PK minutes before Therrien arrived, when the Habs PK finished 2nd in the league… and we realize that some arguments are deeply unfounded.

That MT is doing a poor job of managing ice time/roles is nothing new…

If MT put his players in the best position to succeed, then we could get a sense of what they are/aren't capable of. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be a priority for him.

 

[S Bah]

There is no doubting the passion Eller has for the game or being a Hab either!

 

[Chacal667]

The only things that matter are the decisions that the management makes, and few of us know that they do the right decisions, after if you feel better by coming here and say your disappointment then good for you but it's not gonna change anything.

Lars Eller is a third line player, Desharnais is a playmaker and they both play at their right position.

 

[ECWHSWI]

The only things that matter are the decisions that the management makes, and few of us know that they do the right decisions, after if you feel better by coming here and say your disappointment then good for you but it's not gonna change anything.

Lars Eller is a third line player, Desharnais is a playmaker and they both play at their right position.

then give him top 9 wingers maybe ??

 

[Chacal667]

then give him top 9 wingers maybe ??

like jiri sekac who only have 6 games in the nhl ?

 

[ECWHSWI]

like jiri sekac who only have 6 games in the nhl ?

like Bournival who (outside offensive production maybe) looked solid last season, or yes, Sekac who showed improvement the last few games he played...

inexperienced means talentless now ????

 

[Chacal667]

like Bournival who (outside offensive production maybe) looked solid last season, or yes, Sekac who showed improvement the last few games he played...

inexperienced means talentless now ????

No but experience mean efficacy, especially in the defensive zone and if you hope that he's gonna make Eller produce, it's a lot to put on his shoulders.

 

[bentheprop]

The only things that matter are the decisions that the management makes, and few of us know that they do the right decisions, after if you feel better by coming here and say your disappointment then good for you but it's not gonna change anything.

Lars Eller is a third line player, Desharnais is a playmaker and they both play at their right position.

Desharnais is not a top line center. He's our 3rd most talented center in fact. The problem that a lot of DD fans have is that they think that his detractors want to move him out to make room for Eller so they jump on Eller every chance they get.

Right now our best playmaker is Galchenyuk and I think that it's time for him to replace DD. Desharnais would look pretty good on the 3rd line wing if you ask me. Getting him away from Patches might remind him that he's allowed to shoot the puck once in a while. Moving him to Eller's wing would also help improve the scoring of our 3rd line.