Value of: Larkin availability, generally and particularly to Rangers

[WingsMJN2965]

I feared the hole in the proposal was Jobes-sized. I totally get that putting those three players off the table makes a deal implausible but the premise is to get better by adding Larkin rather than a sideways hockey trade (assuming we get worse by trading Panarin).

I was not suggesting low ball Ryder, Halak and a 2nd territory but apologies if that was how it came across. I was wondering what to add to a first in the way of young pieces that would help you be better in two years time.

Just out of curiosity, would you have been more positive if I had mentioned Bjorkstrand/Abramov/Carlsson by name instead of Milano?

For a little insight as to Detroit's needs, wingers do absolutely nothing for them. They were overloaded on wingers before the draft, when they picked up Zadina and Berggren. On defense, they have Hronek/Cholowski/McIsaac who all project to be 2nd pairing guys, with Hronek and Cholo having a slight chance at being top pairing guys.

... That's why everybody says Detroit's not trading Larkin for a similarly aged #1C or #1D. Realistically, I don't see Detroit dealing Larkin to Columbus for anything but Seth Jones. Understandably, Columbus probably doesn't do that.

 

[izlez]

Regarding the Columbus angle... you're gonna want to start with Jones or Werenski and then probably add a good amount from there

Columbus would be crazy to do that.


I.E., Dylan Larkin is not available for trade.

 

[grindline]

Thanks for conciseness. Columbus can but dream.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

What would it take to get Larkin for Columbus? If he were available, I would be happier trading Panarin knowing Larkin was incoming.

Dubois, Jones and Werenski would be off limits but that still leaves us with assets. How about the first we could get for Panarin plus some good young pieces for your rebuild?

Say a 1st plus Milano plus...?

That's an atrocious offer, Larkin is already better then Drouin and Drouin returned Sergachev period. Any thing less then Seth Jones isn't happening and no way Columbus deals Jones. So no deal between Columbus and Detroit. You wouldn't move the pieces necessary to move Larkin.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

What would it take to get Larkin for Columbus? If he were available, I would be happier trading Panarin knowing Larkin was incoming.

Dubois, Jones and Werenski would be off limits but that still leaves us with assets. How about the first we could get for Panarin plus some good young pieces for your rebuild?

Say a 1st plus Milano plus...?

You want Larkin but Dubois, Jones and Werenski are off limits. Yeah no way you want Larkin and Detroit is asking for one of those 3 end of discussion.

 

[Syckle78]

Regarding the Columbus angle... you're gonna want to start with Jones or Werenski and then probably add a good amount from there

Columbus would be crazy to do that.


I.E., Dylan Larkin is not available for trade.

As a Detroit fan this is nuts. Larkin doesn't get Jones straight up.

 

[bernmeister]

.... Really there isn't much to see here.
This should have been locked on day 1.

Freedom of speech and competition of ideas says otherwise.

There was a lot of constructive discussion while nuanced aspects were debated.

There was an assumption that Andersson, a 7OA, was fair compensation for DET 2019 1st, which was projected by me as more likely to end up 6-10OA. Red Wings fans view the pick as likely to be more valuable, even tho if they follow this year's model, there is only 17% or so chance to get that 1OA [the odds the Sabes had to draft Dahlin].

There was also disagreement on how much Larkin commands, and value of my proposed package.

Nothing to be close minded about.

 

[njx9]

As a Detroit fan this is nuts. Larkin doesn't get Jones straight up.

That's not the point. Why on earth would you ever trade him for less?

Freedom of speech

And here I thought it was just your trade justifications that were asinine. Wow.

 

[Shootertooter]

Freedom of speech and competition of ideas says otherwise.

There was a lot of constructive discussion while nuanced aspects were debated.

There was an assumption that Andersson, a 7OA, was fair compensation for DET 2019 1st, which was projected by me as more likely to end up 6-10OA. Red Wings fans view the pick as likely to be more valuable, even tho if they follow this year's model, there is only 17% or so chance to get that 1OA [the odds the Sabes had to draft Dahlin].

There was also disagreement on how much Larkin commands, and value of my proposed package.

Nothing to be close minded about.

You classify closed mindedness as anything that disagrees with your unpopular and unrealistic proposals. You aren't exactly reinventing the wheel with your silly proposals either, possibly just ruffling feathers.

Berns, with virtually every proposal you make, the vast majority and often every response, kicks sand in your face and discredits you.

How you see that as constructive or a positive, is baffling but fun to watch. You understand many people do not take you seriously at all right? Carry on.

 

[Lampedampe]

You classify closed mindedness as anything that disagrees with your unpopular and unrealistic proposals. You aren't exactly reinventing the wheel with your silly proposals either, possibly just ruffling feathers.

Berns, with virtually every proposal you make, the vast majority and often every response, kicks sand in your face and discredits you.

How you see that as constructive or a positive, is baffling but fun to watch. You understand many people do not take you seriously at all right? Carry on.

Value wise it's not terrible, Skjei and Buch for Larkin. Anderson, 2nd and Halverson for the 1st.

The problem is that it doesn't make sense for us Wings fans atleast, Larkin and the 1st are our most valuable assets while Buch, skjei and Andersson doesn't fit our needs, we're in need of elite talent.

The offer isn't laughable as some seem to think.

 

[izlez]

As a Detroit fan this is nuts. Larkin doesn't get Jones straight up.

I agree. Jones is definitely the better player.

I still don't think Detroit does it. It adds a great piece on defense, but opens up another giant hole at the Center position and doesn't make us a better team. Then you throw in the some of the actual human aspects of suddenly getting rid of a young leader that has done nothing but work his butt off to make himself and the team better and has a home in Detroit. Doesn't seem like that's a great look for creating a good environment to play in.

You'd have to overpay big time to get him. Obviously no one would do that.
I.E., he is not available for trade.

 

[Shootertooter]

Value wise it's not terrible, Skjei and Buch for Larkin. Anderson, 2nd and Halverson for the 1st.

The problem is that it doesn't make sense for us Wings fans atleast, Larkin and the 1st are our most valuable assets while Buch, skjei and Andersson doesn't fit our needs, we're in need of elite talent.

The offer isn't laughable as some seem to think.

There is the value aspect, the need aspect, the notion if certain players are even available for trade and the actual realism/possibility of a trade happening one needs to consider. It seems the vast majority of both Wings/Rangers fans adamantly disagree with this one for one or more of those reasons.

As a NYR fan, I like Larkin but recognize that we would have to give up way too much to the point it cripples us to get him. It also opens up other holes that might not easily be addressed with giving up the assets we did to acquire Larkin.
The addition of the Wings first is just an exclamation point on Berns inability to gauge realistic value.

 

[njx9]

The offer isn't laughable as some seem to think.

Of course it is, just ask this guy:

The problem is that it doesn't make sense for us Wings fans atleast, Larkin and the 1st are our most valuable assets while Buch, skjei and Andersson doesn't fit our needs

A non-1D and yet-another-winger is a laughably stupid offer for the Wings' 22 year old 1C. A 7, 2nd and yet-another-bottom-4-D is a laughably stupid offer for an unprotected pick for a bottom-of-the-barrel rebuilding team. But hey, that second guy I quoted already said it and you didn't listen to him, either.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

What would it take to get Larkin for Columbus? If he were available, I would be happier trading Panarin knowing Larkin was incoming.

Dubois, Jones and Werenski would be off limits but that still leaves us with assets. How about the first we could get for Panarin plus some good young pieces for your rebuild?

Say a 1st plus Milano plus...?

Obviously no.
But, what would Detroit have to add to next year's unprotected first to get Jones or Werenski from CBJ?

 

[King In The North]

I don't think either team does this.

 

[Lampedampe]

Of course it is, just ask this guy:



A non-1D and yet-another-winger is a laughably stupid offer for the Wings' 22 year old 1C. A 7, 2nd and yet-another-bottom-4-D is a laughably stupid offer for an unprotected pick for a bottom-of-the-barrel rebuilding team. But hey, that second guy I quoted already said it and you didn't listen to him, either.

Cmon now, you know what i mean. Strictly value i don't think it's as terrible as people make it out to be, need wise it's quite terrible for both teams.

 

[njx9]

Cmon now, you know what i mean. Strictly value i don't think it's as terrible as people make it out to be, need wise it's quite terrible for both teams.

I think it's still crap value, given that Larkin has dramatically higher value to the Wings, given the dearth of players at any position other than W. If this was a mythical Larkin on a team like Toronto, with great C depth, then I'd agree. That doesn't touch that Andersson, a 2nd and a random D prospect are really, really poor value for a sure top 10 pick in a C-stacked draft.

 

[DontEverTouchMyPuck]

Wings have no reason to trade Larkin. He's one of their best assets and part of a core that will be part of their future. With the other youngsters like Athanasiou, Mantha and Bertuzzi (who really came on at end of last season), Larkin keeps them interesting while they rebuild.

The Wings built the most amazing new arena and now they need to fill it. At the moment, there aren't a lot of reasons for fans to fill the new barn, but Larkin is one of them. A fan favorite, capable of some flashy moments, I don't think he's going anywhere.

 

[bernmeister]

sorry to pull this back but necessary for the comment below.
Otherwise, given what was already said, we can let this thread expire.
----------------------------------------

Value wise it's not terrible, Skjei and Buch for Larkin. Anderson, 2nd and Halverson for the 1st.

The problem is that it doesn't make sense for us Wings fans atleast, Larkin and the 1st are our most valuable assets while Buch, skjei and Andersson doesn't fit our needs, we're in need of elite talent.

The offer isn't laughable as some seem to think.

Cmon now, you know what i mean. Strictly value i don't think it's as terrible as people make it out to be, need wise it's quite terrible for both teams.

I wanted to thank Lampedampe for these posts earlier, but I have been crushed for nearly 2 wks.

We do not need an extended re-hash here.

Obviously there is actual/projected production value for Larkin. I acknowledged there was also the intangible of face of the franchise, etc.
While some made some recognition of value [while also a no vote for the Larkin intangible/needs factors], the above poster courageously made the explicit statement that the value was not laughable, despite a tendency by most to be less objectively analytical, esp on this point.

Thank you.

In conclusion, I postulated if this deal is done [remember, we corrected the error on Vanek as a cap dump], that Detroit would be better, and likely finish slightly better than last year by a couple of slots. This is not written in stone given a lottery selection process, but percentage wise it is a reasonable statement. Andersson could be better or worse than his 7OA slotting. At present that is all we have to go on, and a 7OA guy ready to play now is close to = for a similarly slotted finish this year, and waiting for the pick.
{I am aware of the feedback about wanting to get a high end franchise or generational guy with the number 1. That could happen, but if Wings don't finish bottom 3, which is not a given even now without adding assets from NY, that is a low percentage play. Even if finish is worst, there is only 17% approx chance to get top selection. Detroit fans have the right to insist to go there, I just want it told like it is. It is a crap shot; it a crap shot for Wings, for Rangers, and every other club.}

That left the rest of the assets, including intangibles, for Larkin.

Detroit fans want to keep this guy, that's the bottom line, and that's fine.

It was an interesting discussion, and again, thanks to Lampedampe for demonstrating courage of his convictions.

 

[Starat327]

Necro a thread to say thanks for the one person who agrees with your valuation. Nicely done.

 

[slg1963]

Bern , we are not giving up Skjei, Buch and Anderson they are our future.

 

[raymond23]

This thread is still alive? How

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

The real problem with this isn't the value. It's that the Wings give up two things they desperately need for a smattering of things that they don't.

Skjei, Buchnevich, Lias Andersson? They're all fine piece I'd like the Wings to have. But I don't want to give up Larkin who is our best shot at a 1C and a lottery unprotected 1st next year which is our next best shot at that or a 1D for them.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Thought this thread would die, Not dealing Larkin a local kid and our future captain and the cornerstone of our franchise. End of discussion.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Thought this thread would die, Not dealing Larkin a local kid and our future captain and the cornerstone of our franchise. End of discussion.

It should have. Thanks bern.