Prospect Info: LAK Draft (2nd, 2020) C Quinton Byfield - Sudbury Wolves, OHL

[Sol]

This is what I have been saying for years. The Kings need to add highly skilled guys (Patrick Kane lite). They have been missing out on those guys. The guys that make teams have to know when they step on the ice. It's why I wanted them to pick Stutzle. Someone that can control the play on his own and makes others dangerous with more space. The Kings play such a tight game that teams know what the Kings are gonna do before the Kings actually do. Players like Stutzle, Zegras, Kane, Barzal, McDavid, Kaprizov and a hand full of others make other teams concentrate on them which opens the ice for their teammates which the Kings don't have.

I don't think Byfield is a guy that can do that. He's a great prospect but I don't see him as a guy other teams will have to worry about as much in creating opportunities on his own. He'll be good with teammates that can finish but it will take sometime and fine tuning.

The issue I had at the draft is the Kings needed to take a big swing on a skilled guy like Stutzle but at 2nd overall they couldn't make that kind of move. They could have done it the year before at 5 with Zegras over Turcotte but went with the "safe" pick. This coming offseason/draft they need to take that final swing at one of these highly skilled wingers.

As for Byfield...I don't see him as a 1C in the NHL but he'll be forced to be the 1C. Which will be ok because he'll have Vilardi and JAD backing him up as 2C and 3C.

They ultimately chose Byfield based on how he can affect the game more than just points. As I mentioned before, you'd have to assume their logic was similar to a Kopitar type player vs a Kane type player. Now granted, Byfields two-way game is very much a work in progress, but they opted, I'm assuming, for a big center who can impact the play in all areas with his skill and size.

If I recall correctly, Yanneti said in a post-draft interview that basically the pick was made based on how Blake wanted to build the team. I don't think it's fair to compare their impact when Byfield isn't even in the NHL yet. Now I understand that in itself can be used as a strong argument, but players develop at different rates. If Byfield fails to make any impact in the NHL in 3-4 years, then sure I'd agree it was the wrong call.

I get it, I really do. Stutzle is doing well in the NHL now. But I just think it's way to early to make any real conclusions yet.

You are missing the point. No one is saying that the pick or reasoning for the pick was wrong (atleast I'm not)

People are saying that if we know what we know now on March 7th, 2021, specifically that Stutzle's game is going to translate spectacularly to the NHL would they choose differently?

I think overall the most obvious element about Stutzle was that he had a terrific puck handling abilities and agility. Things we see from Patrick Kane, Panarin, and even Kaprizov. I think people are completely looking over the fact that the Byfield archetype is much more rare than the Stutzle archetype for a REASON. I don't see how people struggle to get that through their heads. There's a reason why Stutzle was ready for the NHL and Byfield wasn't. No one again is saying that Byfield WONT turn out to be a real good player, what people are saying is that Stutzle was already showing that he is close to being a really good NHL player by the archetype he fell under.

People have such a boner for Byfield for unwarranted reasons other than they hope he is going to get better, and people are annoyed that Stutzle is showing to be the better player at the moment. The Pro-Stutzle side saw a guy who was likely going to be a great player and the Pro-Byfield side is HOPING that Byfields game translate well into the NHL because "OMG KOPITAR V2" while forgetting to mention that Kopitar himself is a rare archetype. and if you think "OMG OF COURSE IT WILL THESE PEOPLE GET PAID TO SCOUT OMFGHFUHSHFD". DL drafted Hickey. Some of you guys give them way too much credit. Blake hired Willie D after Stevens. Don't forget the fact that these are humans who get paid to do a job that they can end up sucking in and get fired from often.

Let Byfield prove himself to be a good player and worth choosing over Stutzle from. Until he does, get used to the fact that Stutzle is the better player currently. You don't always have to be such homers with the pinkest of glasses. I wanted Stutzle much more than Byfield before the draft, but again, if Byfield was tearing it up, I'd be more than happy to not only eat my hat, but everyone elses. No one wants to see Byfield fail to prove a point. I want Byfield to be much more successful than Stutzle because he's a king. Do I think it happens? Look above.

BTW I can't believe this point has to be made, but do you guys seriously keep bringing up Stutzles production on the Sens and overlook the likelihood how much more productive he'd be on the Kings right now? The Sens are a terrible team.

 

[crassbonanza]

I don't change my draft pick just because the other guy is scoring like Tanner Pearson/Nail Yakupov as expected. It's that simple.

The people in this thread pumping up a guy 'looking good' are ignoring actual results and then go to the reign thread to talk shit about...guys who "look good" but aren't getting actual results.

Some terribly poor faith arguments going on here today.

Come on RJ, you are better than that. Don't compare him to a guy drafted who was passed over his year. It's just petty man. Pearson was awesome for the Kings, but that's just ridiculous dude.

 

[Eagle Fang]

I think overall the most obvious element about Stutzle was that he had a terrific puck handling abilities and agility. Things we see from Patrick Kane, Panarin, and even Kaprizov. I think people are completely looking over the fact that the Byfield archetype is much more rare than the Stutzle archetype for a REASON. I don't see how people struggle to get that through their heads. There's a reason why Stutzle was ready for the NHL and Byfield wasn't. No one again is saying that Byfield WONT turn out to be a real good player, what people are saying is that Stutzle was already showing that he is close to being a really good NHL player by the archetype he fell under.

People have such a boner for Byfield for unwarranted reasons other than they hope he is going to get better, and people are annoyed that Stutzle is showing to be the better player at the moment. The Pro-Stutzle side saw a guy who was likely going to be a great player and the Pro-Byfield side is HOPING that Byfields game translate well into the NHL because "OMG KOPITAR V2" while forgetting to mention that Kopitar himself is a rare archetype. and if you think "OMG OF COURSE IT WILL THESE PEOPLE GET PAID TO SCOUT OMFGHFUHSHFD". DL drafted Hickey. Some of you guys give them way too much credit. Blake hired Willie D after Stevens. Don't forget the fact that these are humans who get paid to do a job that they can end up sucking in and get fired from often.

Let Byfield prove himself to be a good player and worth choosing over Stutzle from. Until he does, get used to the fact that Stutzle is the better player currently. You don't always have to be such homers with the pinkest of glasses. I wanted Stutzle much more than Byfield before the draft, but again, if Byfield was tearing it up, I'd be more than happy to not only eat my hat, but everyone elses. No one wants to see Byfield fail to prove a point. I want Byfield to be much more successful than Stutzle because he's a king. Do I think it happens? Look above.

BTW I can't believe this point has to be made, but do you guys seriously keep bringing up Stutzles production on the Sens and overlook the likelihood how much more productive he'd be on the Kings right now? The Sens are a terrible team.

Good post, but a couple of things. I don't think anyone (at least from what I've read) has a boner for Byfield. I think most people with common sense know he's a work in progress, and he's far from a sure-fire anything. Some people think his performance thus far is underwhelming. Some people, including myself think there are areas of his game to be excited about. No one is penciling in Byfield as LA's future top line center.

The crux of the TS vs QB debate right now is whether it's fair or not to second guess the pick after such a short sample size.

And since you quoted my post, when I said a Kopitar vs Kane type player I did not mean to say Byfield is the next Kopitar. I understand Kopitar is a very special and rare player and maybe one of the greatest two-way centers of the decade. What I meant was, Byfield as a big skilled and mobile center man, probably was chosen over Stutzle by Blake because similar to how Kopitar can affect a game by more than just points, they feel Byfield can do that as well. I believe Yannetti said that specifically.

 

[crassbonanza]

For those who are in a state of panic over Byfield and fawning over Stutzle, das wunderkind has scored one goal in the last 16 games. If Byfield did that we'd see many people on here bemoaning his lack of production. Calm down.

You know Ziggy, it seems like you don't watch any Sens games when you say shit like this.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You know Ziggy, it seems like you don't watch any Sens games when you say shit like this.

He has one goal in the last 16 games. Is that a lie? How is it any different than those who look at Byfield’s numbers and bitch and moan about it?

I’ve seen plenty of Stutzle and even have him on my fantasy team. Those numbers should put things in perspective for those fawning over him.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I wanted to trade down, get another pick/prospect/Stutzle for Byfield.

But come on, Byfield has only played a few games in the AHL. He’s still growing physically and mentally as well. The game will slow down and he’ll be a force.

 

[crassbonanza]

He has one goal in the last 16 games. Is that a lie? How is it any different than those who look at Byfield’s numbers and bitch and moan about it?

I’ve seen plenty of Stutzle and even have him on my fantasy team. Those numbers should put things in perspective for those fawning over him.

He has 14 points this season on the 2nd worst team in the league man. He is 2 for 2 in shootouts and is exciting as f***, if you watch him play you would acknowledge that.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

He has 14 points this season on the 2nd worst team in the league man. He is 2 for 2 in shootouts and is exciting as f***, if you watch him play you would acknowledge that.

I also acknowledge the fact that he’s had his ups and downs and he isn’t producing like some of the names being tossed around.

 

[crassbonanza]

I also acknowledge the fact that he’s had his ups and downs and he isn’t producing like some of the names being tossed around.

I might be confused, but I'm not sure what your argument is here.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I might be confused, but I'm not sure what your argument is here.

What are you confused by? Some people are expressing regret over the Byfield pick because of his performance post draft, and some people here are trying to temper expectations by providing evidence that maybe it’s too quick to pass judgement.

Look beyond the 2020 draft and check out how the prospects from the year prior are performing. Zegras has one assist in 6. Cozens has been cold, as has Kakko. Hughes is doing a bit better this season but you’d expect more from a #1 pick, same goes with Lafreniere.

These people rushing judgement need to step away from the keyboard and walk away from the ledge.

 

[BigKing]

He has 14 points this season on the 2nd worst team in the league man. He is 2 for 2 in shootouts and is exciting as f***, if you watch him play you would acknowledge that.

This is not a post bashing TS but rather pointing out a belief of mine that things like this are not a feather in anyone's cap. Producing at over a half point a game at his age is quite nice and the excitement factor is true, but putting up points on a bad team in a division that bleeds goals against isn't the way to hype him up.

He's going to be a good player in this league: he better be since he was in the discussion for 2OA. Nothing has happened since the draft that is shocking between QB and TS. I'm not accusing you of this as I'm now moving to generalities but the idea of saying the Kings would change the pick today is some hot-take, sports radio reactionary type thinking that can--and will--change by the week.

 

[crassbonanza]

This is not a post bashing TS but rather pointing out a belief of mine that things like this are not a feather in anyone's cap. Producing at over a half point a game at his age is quite nice and the excitement factor is true, but putting up points on a bad team in a division that bleeds goals against isn't the way to hype him up.

He's going to be a good player in this league: he better be since he was in the discussion for 2OA. Nothing has happened since the draft that is shocking between QB and TS. I'm not accusing you of this as I'm now moving to generalities but the idea of saying the Kings would change the pick today is some hot-take, sports radio reactionary type thinking that can--and will--change by the week.

I personally believe that we won't know who ends up being the better player for years, so I definitely agree with you. My point is that some people have spent an unusual amount of time bashing TS since before we even drafted QB. I've maintained this position for a while. Stutzle is an exciting player to watch and is producing in the NHL. He has done nothing, but excel since being drafted and that is all that I am saying.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Stutzle will also pass the eye test more so than Byfield because he's flashy. If we are talking a 70 point electric winger vs a 60 point 2 way center than I know who I'd rather have. It is way too early for this conversation...

 

[kilowatt]

I know it's not a great stat, but Dahlin has the worst plus-minus in the league at -21. What is up with that franchise? How are they consistently so terrible? Ownership?

 

[Martyros]

they don't have the veteran experience.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Come on RJ, you are better than that. Don't compare him to a guy drafted who was passed over his year. It's just petty man. Pearson was awesome for the Kings, but that's just ridiculous dude.

I was literally just using names people were more familiar with. Pick a 40-50 point scorer you like more I guess. My point was that we literally have threads on our board eviscerating guys for this type of production but we're supposed to just take back the Byfield pick because TS is doing that? No, he's basically doing exactly what everyone expected imo. If anything, he looks more comfortable than expected, and that's great--he's obviously got a bright future--but I see nothing that's shocking enough to make people second guess a thing. I mean if he were PPG or something then it's more of a conversation but I feel like you still have to let Byfield play out before even having that discussion. People are acting like there's some TS bashing going on but the thing is it's not about Stutzle, it's about Byfield. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and a guy enjoying some early success doesn't take away from the other to the degree is being suggested.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think for some of us it's because we've seen so many players come through we instinctually know that until these players have a couple seasons under their belts it's hard to draw conclusions.

I remember 2014 with the big 3 C's and Ekblad. Draisaitl was the more big lumbering guy compared to the more dynamic Bennett and Reinhart. Both Bennett and Reinhart had solid first seasons, while Drai was sent back to juniors after 2g and 9 points in 37 games. To me, there's no question he's the best out of the top 4 taken that year and he had the worst start of all of them by a good margin.

I'll take Seguin over Hall any day of the week, even though it took him a few seasons to get going. I also remember Montreal fans raving about Kotkaniemi after a decent first season, and now he's struggling while Tkachuk and Svechnikov haven't looked back.

There's a chance TS is the best guy out of this draft, but there's also the chance that both QB and AL pass him by. It's just too early to evaluate those picks in any way.

Maybe people will listen to you, because you're not me

But thank you. This isn't the first time this story has happened, it's not some weird unique situation. The above examples are recent and relevant.

 

[crassbonanza]

I was literally just using names people were more familiar with. Pick a 40-50 point scorer you like more I guess. My point was that we literally have threads on our board eviscerating guys for this type of production but we're supposed to just take back the Byfield pick because TS is doing that? No, he's basically doing exactly what everyone expected imo. If anything, he looks more comfortable than expected, and that's great--he's obviously got a bright future--but I see nothing that's shocking enough to make people second guess a thing. I mean if he were PPG or something then it's more of a conversation but I feel like you still have to let Byfield play out before even having that discussion. People are acting like there's some TS bashing going on but the thing is it's not about Stutzle, it's about Byfield. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and a guy enjoying some early success doesn't take away from the other to the degree is being suggested.

Honest question, have you watched him play at all? Your entire argument seems to hinge on stat watching and I think that really misses the point. There is and has been a lot of Stutzle bashing in my opinion from way before the draft and that's part of the reason why so many people are acting defensive now.

 

[King'sPawn]

Honest question, have you watched him play at all? Your entire argument seems to hinge on stat watching and I think that really misses the point. There is and has been a lot of Stutzle bashing in my opinion from way before the draft and that's part of the reason why so many people are acting defensive now.

I'm just more frustrated and annoyed at fans insisting the Kings would change picks 5 months into a player we expect to pay off in the long term.

And being told "I don't get it."

And hitching their argument on a guy who, while connected, doesn't follow prospects, show much appreciation for the importance of development, has not watched Ontario at all, and has been banging the #playthekids drum.

Edit: let's also not mention the fact that, apparently, he thinks the Rangers are also regretting the Lafreniere pick and would take Stutzle No. 1 overall

 

[crassbonanza]

I'm just more frustrated and annoyed at fans insisting the Kings would change picks 5 months into a player we expect to pay off in the long term.

And being told "I don't get it."

And hitching their argument on a guy who, while connected, doesn't follow prospects, show much appreciation for the importance of development, has not watched Ontario at all, and has been banging the #playthekids drum.

Edit: let's also not mention the fact that, apparently, he thinks the Rangers are also regretting the Lafreniere pick and would take Stutzle No. 1 overall

I can see that being frustrating when we know that QB is a long term project, but I think it's more a difference of philosophy.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Honest question, have you watched him play at all? Your entire argument seems to hinge on stat watching and I think that really misses the point. There is and has been a lot of Stutzle bashing in my opinion from way before the draft and that's part of the reason why so many people are acting defensive now.

Yes, I have. He creates chances and looks great. But that's my point--the production results aren't commensurate with 'looking exciting' and I feel like people are over-pumping the last part while ignoring the first especially considering the production he's putting up gets guys on this team absolutely firehosed.

And frankly it's getting pretty f***ing insulting being accused of strictly stat watching when I've presented historical context as well. We've all been watching both guys closely even with our preferences. And it's not "Stutzle bashing" to literally state his actual production.

And finally, again--it's less about Stutzle and more about Byfield. The stupid ass "do we regret this pick" question assumes some expectations that Byfield isn't fulfilling right now. I still feel like both guys are performing about as expected--maybe Stutzle slightly more comfortable, but that's about it. The only surprising thing in the top-3 right now is Lafreniere's struggles to get acclimated, everything else is pretty much as expected.

Like I said before too--if you guys won't take it from me because you think I'm extremely biased or narrow minded or just f***ing stupid, fine, but there are plenty of more respected posters saying literally the exact same thing above.

 

[crassbonanza]

Yes, I have. He creates chances and looks great. But that's my point--the production results aren't commensurate with 'looking exciting' and I feel like people are over-pumping the last part while ignoring the first especially considering the production he's putting up gets guys on this team absolutely firehosed.

He had no training camp and stepped right into a mess of a team and has produced.

And frankly it's getting pretty f***ing insulting being accused of strictly stat watching when I've presented historical context as well. We've all been watching both guys closely even with our preferences. And it's not "Stutzle bashing" to literally state his actual production.

Your entire argument at least with me has been about points. I assume this is why you brought up Tanner Pearson for some reason, despite them not being comparable at all outside of them both being wingers. The reason I asked if you have watched any games at all is that people who are stat watching would miss what makes Stutzle so intriguing. He can already do things at the top level that damn few players in the league can. I don't think he will ever get there, but he has shown star ability already.

And finally, again--it's less about Stutzle and more about Byfield. The stupid ass "do we regret this pick" question assumes some expectations that Byfield isn't fulfilling right now. I still feel like both guys are performing about as expected--maybe Stutzle slightly more comfortable, but that's about it. The only surprising thing in the top-3 right now is Lafreniere's struggles to get acclimated, everything else is pretty much as expected.

RJ, you should know now that this stupid debate is not going anywhere. You can not have such a charged debate predraft and not have this carry over.

 

[cyclones22]

Yes, I have. He creates chances and looks great. But that's my point--the production results aren't commensurate with 'looking exciting' and I feel like people are over-pumping the last part while ignoring the first especially considering the production he's putting up gets guys on this team absolutely firehosed.

Here's the funny thing is that plus/minus is "telling" for Byfield on the Reign and is supposedly indicative of him not playing responsibly, but it's absolutely not for Stutzle who is garbage in his own end and takes and makes high risk plays leading to chances against in the 0-zone. Remember back when Doughty and EK were at their peak, Babcock mentioned more than a few times that Drew was dynamic without being high risk. EK was high risk but even though he was on the ice for more goals against than any defender in the league for a number of seasons, it wasn't his fault. It was his partner's or bad was goaltending to blame.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He has 14 points this season on the 2nd worst team in the league man. He is 2 for 2 in shootouts and is exciting as f***, if you watch him play you would acknowledge that.

The Kings have 68 goals, the Sens 74. That's not affecting his numbers.

He is exciting as f*** and a high ceiling. I don't know what kind of groveling will satisfy you at this point and really not sure what you're asking everyone here to do--his skill and endlessly high ceiling has been acknowledged. This has turned into a 'please like my guy' fest.

He had no training camp and stepped right into a mess of a team and has produced.

Like has been endlessly repeated--he's been very impressive looking even if the results aren't quite commensurate with 'the look' quite yet. I think they will be.

Your entire argument at least with me has been about points. I assume this is why you brought up Tanner Pearson for some reason, despite them not being comparable at all outside of them both being wingers. The reason I asked if you have watched any games at all is that people who are stat watching would miss what makes Stutzle so intriguing. He can already do things at the top level that damn few players in the league can. I don't think he will ever get there, but he has shown star ability already.

Seems like I have a belief in a higher ceiling for TS than even you do. I don't see why he can't reach that level.

RJ, you should know now that this stupid debate is not going anywhere. You can not have such a charged debate predraft and not have this carry over.

If you think I'm that biased, then don't @ me.

All I'm saying is what Stutzle has done--which is great--does not invalidate the Byfield pick. It was always a longer-term pick.

 

[Anguyen92]

What are we arguing about?

Is Stutzle good now? Sure? Can he be even better in a few years? I don't see why not. Do we regret not picking him at 2? We can't make a valid statement about it until a few years down the line. Any answer now is just not good enough due to a lack of sample size.

Is Byfield good now? Debatable from what I've read. Can he be good in a few years and be a lethal player? Why not? Should we regret picking him at 2 now in light of Stutzle doing ok? No. Would we regret picking him #2 if he doesn't pan out well in the next few years? We'll see. We can't figure out that development right now. This is something we need to let time play it out which apparently, people (in general, not people here) don't want to wait nowadays, which can be said for any pick.