Proposal: Laine?

[r0bert8841]

I would do Mantha + for Laine.

I probably would do Zadina + for Laine. For someone drafted 6th overall, the ceiling can’t be much higher than Laine

 

[Retire91]

The thing about Laine is he is surrounded by doubts. If you go to the Jets board there are pages and pages of discussion about him and quite a few posters just do not like him. I find it odd that any player with that much talent would have so many detractors. Usually someone like that would be a fan favorite. I am not sure what is going on but something is off, is it him as the player, is it the coach, is it the fans, is it the organization as a whole? Something is just off and it makes me uncomfortable to pay full price.

The thing is, if the stars align Laine has a franchise superstar celling. So maybe he either finds a good home and excels or some team is going to eat crow.

To my recollection Yzerman excels at two types of trades. When he is forced to trade someone, or turning depth and complimentary players into huge upgrades. I don't know that Yzerman has ever really traded core to core but I do trust his abilities to judge talent and win trades.

So I think my bottom line is I would trust however this played out with Yzerman.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I would do Mantha + for Laine.

I probably would do Zadina + for Laine. For someone drafted 6th overall, the ceiling can’t be much higher than Laine

Zadina projects to be a 30-35 goal, 70+ point 2-way winger in his best years.
Raymond projects to be a 20-25 goal, 70+ point 2-way winger in his best years.

Patrik Laine is a 35-45 goal, 70+ point one-dimensional winger now.

All the talk of trading Zadina + is kind of ridiculous. He's not the shiny new toy anymore but he's still one hell of a prospect and was ranked 3rd or 4th overall in his draft class. I'm not saying he'll be better than Laine, but I wouldn't bet against him having a more positive impact for whatever team he's on in 5 years time than Laine. Even if Raymond and Zadina only churn out 55-60 point seasons their play away from the puck will do more to help this team than the extra few points that Laine would get while ignoring the defensive zone.

Numbers show that Laine isn't his line's driver, but the finisher. Both Mantha and Zadina are line drivers, AND line finishers. They also show that Laine is very bad defensively. Mantha is only about average, but still better than Laine, and Zadina looks pretty decent out there as well.

That Winnipeg team would be better off without Laine by trading him for a true secondary winger and defensive depth. If Detroit adds Laine to this squad we're still very bad and like @SirloinUB said it would be like the Toronto days when they were trying to build around Phil Kessel.

Let Laine end up in Phoenix or some other destination. I think we're better off showing restraint and patience, and allowing our home grown kids to play.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I'm so glad some of you aren't Steve Yzerman

I am Steve Yzerlland.

This is stupid. In a healthy year, Mantha could put up points that challenge Laine. And they went to throw in Zadina and a second rounder too? Give me a break.

More realistic proposal would be Mantha and maybe a third rounder straight up.

Mantha is 4 years older and no where near as lethal as Laine. Mantha for Laine would get Cheveldayoff fired before the plane lands LOL

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Laine is showing he's not afraid to ask to be moved if the fit isn't right. Why would he want to come to/stay in Detroit? It sounds like he wants to play with an elite center.

He would be a star in Detroit.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

I am Steve Yzerlland.

Mantha is 4 years older and no where near as lethal as Laine. Mantha for Laine would get Cheveldayoff fired before the plane lands LOL

I'm not totally convinced that Laine is the better player right now, but I certainly do think that Laine has the higher market value around the league.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I am Steve Yzerlland.

Mantha is 4 years older and no where near as lethal as Laine. Mantha for Laine would get Cheveldayoff fired before the plane lands LOL

I'm sure you won't be receptive to hearing this, and I'm not going to say Laine isn't the better overall player, but I don't think you are talking about different talent classes between the two. Outside of the age, I don't see anything that Laine does that Mantha can't do at a better $ value given the likely contracts.

Like, in the past two years, Mantha has played 18:15 per night, at 0.37 goals per game and 0.78 points per game. Laine has played 18:13 per night, at 0.39 goals per game and 0.75 points per game, a higher proportion of which come on the powerplay. Those are just the raw numbers. Both are primary powerplay options for the team, Laine plays on a much better team, with better linemates and defensemen. Mantha has much stronger even strength shot control numbers and more visually apparent two way play.

The question is, can you expect Laine to be the 40-50 goal scorer that is required to get past the disappointment that he is everywhere on the ice, and the fact that he's going to get more money, plus cost assets to aquire.

 

[newfy]

Patrik Laine is a 35-45 goal, 70+ point one-dimensional winger now.

The last two seasons Laine is actually a 31-32 goal scorer if we're looking at his numbers and on a downward trajectory. Hes not a great teammate (I know someone who plays in Winnipeg), hes going to want a lot of money, and if hes not scoring (which he hasnt been doing a lot of the last two years) hes actually hurting the team with his play.

I'm not totally convinced that Laine is the better player right now, but I certainly do think that Laine has the higher market value around the league.

I'm pretty convinced Mantha is a much better fit for this wings team right now than Laine. Market around the league you might be right, but the wings are in one of the more unique situations around the league and selling good, young assets for a guy with questionable character doesnt make sense for them right now

 

[ShippinItDaily]

The last two seasons Laine is actually a 31-32 goal scorer if we're looking at his numbers and on a downward trajectory. Hes not a great teammate (I know someone who plays in Winnipeg), hes going to want a lot of money, and if hes not scoring (which he hasnt been doing a lot of the last two years) hes actually hurting the team with his play.



I'm pretty convinced Mantha is a much better fit for this wings team right now than Laine. Market around the league you might be right, but the wings are in one of the more unique situations around the league and selling good, young assets for a guy with questionable character doesnt make sense for them right now

Agreed. I don't think that's a shot worth taking right now. It's really only one more year of extreme patience that is required, IMO. More than that until this team is a contender, of course.

Next year Yzerman can get aggressive and hand out some more term if he wants to, given he will have much more familiarity with a lot of the younger pieces and will have a cap situation with a lot more dead money melted off the books.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I'm not totally convinced that Laine is the better player right now, but I certainly do think that Laine has the higher market value around the league.

And why is that?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

And why is that?

Why Laine would have more trade value? Name recognition, I would presume.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

And why is that?

My thoughts are similar to those already mentioned by other posters not thrilled with the idea.

Laine's production rate at 5 on 5 really isn't an improvement and he is not as good of a play driver. His production rate should be a lot higher given the team he is on, if he is truly something special.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

Why Laine would have more trade value? Name recognition, I would presume.

He is younger, RH and has proven that he can actually put up the high production stats. That's something Mantha hasn't been able to do over a full season, yet.

 

[jkutswings]

And why is that?

Because a lot of players tend to get paid for what they used to do, instead of what they are likely to do going forward.

Laine on Detroit would probably score 25-30 goals, 55-60 points, and be a black hole in every other facet of the game. Not a good fit for this team at this time.

 

[r0bert8841]

Not trading for an elite talent that’s 22 years old because they are bad at defense is ridiculous. Yzerman played 0 defense at that age. Datsyuks defense was weak his first few years. It’s something that comes with time and coaching.

Detroit desperately needs some young elite talent to build the franchise around. I know some of us are attached to our prospects and players but we will be lucky if any of them become as good as Laine. I would trade anyone but Seider/Raymond/Larkin for him.

 

[newfy]

Not trading for an elite talent that’s 22 years old because they are bad at defense is ridiculous. Yzerman played 0 defense at that age. Datsyuks defense was weak his first few years. It’s something that comes with time and coaching.

Detroit desperately needs some young elite talent to build the franchise around. I know some of us are attached to our prospects and players but we will be lucky if any of them become as good as Laine. I would trade anyone but Seider/Raymond/Larkin for him.

Laine hasnt had an elite season in a few years and has had serious questions about his work ethic/dressing room presence pop up. Hes averaged 31 goal pace the last 2 seasons, thats not elite goal scoring production and goal scoring is the only thing he does well. Maybe he could get it back, but lets not pretend hes 44 goal Laine anymore either

 

[Hen Kolland]

Not trading for an elite talent that’s 22 years old because they are bad at defense is ridiculous. Yzerman played 0 defense at that age. Datsyuks defense was weak his first few years. It’s something that comes with time and coaching.

Detroit desperately needs some young elite talent to build the franchise around. I know some of us are attached to our prospects and players but we will be lucky if any of them become as good as Laine. I would trade anyone but Seider/Raymond/Larkin for him.

It isn’t that people wouldn’t trade for him, it’s that people place a lower value on him than the likely cost to acquire him would be set at. Laine has warts, and the Wings have a relative abundance of offensively capable wingers. I can see Mantha or Zadina scoring 30+ from the wing, at a lower cost due to the name driving up the price.

You want to find a deal around Cholowski, non first round picks, and depth prospects? I think everyone gets onboard, but why would Winnipeg admit defeat and take back that return.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Nope

He is good but I dont care for the attitude, he seems to always be unhappy and wanting to tell others(phow things are going to go

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

No thanks.

 

[golffuul]

As much as I want to have Zadina on our team, going forward, I’d have to agree that that trade is something I would do.

 

[GreatGordie9]

The Jets are right up against the cap and if Laine is traded it won't be Detroit. Winnipeg also has some RFA's to deal with.

 

[r0bert8841]

Laine hasnt had an elite season in a few years and has had serious questions about his work ethic/dressing room presence pop up. Hes averaged 31 goal pace the last 2 seasons, thats not elite goal scoring production and goal scoring is the only thing he does well. Maybe he could get it back, but lets not pretend hes 44 goal Laine anymore either

He’s a kid in a Canadian media market, some drama is bound to happen. It’s not fair to read too much into it. I’m sure most kids in the league have issues at that age and just don’t get the same attention.

And that’s laughable acting like his floor of 30 goals is bad. Here’s a fun fact, Laine in his 4 seasons in the NHL has had more 30 goal seasons than the last 11 seasons of all Red Wings players combined (3 vs 2). Laine isn’t these faux 30 goal scorers like Mantha/Tatar/Nyquist/Franzen that maybe could hit 30 goals in their best season if they hadnt missed a couple games, he’s a guy who will hit 30 on his worst years and 50+ on his best. He would instantly be our go to goal scorer for the next 15 seasons if we play our cards right.

He’s definitely an elite goal scorer. A floor of 30 goals at 22 is incredible. He’s 22 years old, that’s not even close to his prime. A change of scenery would definitely help.

 

[kliq]

I'd pass. Unless we get him in a steal, I have on desire to take on that massive contract he's about to get so he can score 60-70 points for us.

 

[jkutswings]

Not trading for an elite talent that’s 22 years old because they are bad at defense is ridiculous. Yzerman played 0 defense at that age.

At 22, Laine scored 63 points in 68 games, including 28 goals. At 22, Yzerman scored 102 points in 64 games, including 50 goals. Oh yeah, and even at the same age their reputations were polar opposites in terms of work ethic.

Different eras? Sure. But definitely different players.

 

[r0bert8841]

It isn’t that people wouldn’t trade for him, it’s that people place a lower value on him than the likely cost to acquire him would be set at. Laine has warts, and the Wings have a relative abundance of offensively capable wingers. I can see Mantha or Zadina scoring 30+ from the wing, at a lower cost due to the name driving up the price.

Mantha has yet to score 30 goals in 4 seasons, Laine has done it 3 times despite being 3 years younger. Offensively no one on the Red Wings has had this goal scoring ability since Zetterberg in his prime.

You wouldn’t trade Mantha or Zadina for 10+ years of prime Zetterberg’s goal scoring ability? Cause I would do it in a heart beat.