Laine’s off-season training (see warning in post 832)

[Whileee]

Does anyone know what he weighs right now? Or what he weighed during last season accurately?

Being 6'5", he never looked too heavy to me. His movement did, but he body always looks lanky.

He was a lot less "lanky" last season than he was before. He looked to me like he was carrying extra weight.

 

[kunekune]

Does anyone know what he weighs right now? Or what he weighed during last season accurately?

Being 6'5", he never looked too heavy to me. His movement did, but he body always looks lanky.

Don't have exact numbers but he weighted around 98-100 kg last summer. So that would mean he now weights 92-94kg (=203-207 lbs).

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Laineen maalinälkä näkyy hoikistumisena – "Meillä on kovat odotukset Patrikin suhteen"

Here's the article i mentioned from Turun Sanomat.

Some points:

-Laine has lost 6 kilos and he says it's mostly because he stopped eating sugar (Jesus Christ, Patty). Looks a lot more athletic now, according to the writer.
-Winnipeg Jets strength and conditioning coach Craig Slaunwhite is visiting him and says that this is Patrik's best summer training season so far
-Slaunwhite thinks Laine doesn't need any more strength, which is why Patrik has focused on speed and explosiveness this summer.
-Marko Yrjövuori has been attending the camp (The guy who trains Kobe Bryant) once a week, teaching body control and movement stuff.
-Max Kolu has been giving them on-ice training once a week.

 

[Ippenator]

I prefer him skating to playing badminton, and I've said for some time that he bulked up too much and was too heavy last season. Just losing weight will make him quicker this season. He can still improve his skating technique, just like any young hockey player.

I'm glad they've realized a need to shift to getting leaner and quicker. Maybe Slaunwhite had some influence. He's always stressed the importance of focusing on speed and quickness, rather than just bulking up.

Well, I guess it makes you sad then that Laine has been playing much more tennis and badminton during last and this summer than he has been skating. I’m happy that he is doing both - at the right time and the right amounts of each. Based on what his leg muscles need. But the happiest I’m about him working so much for improving his physical weaknesses and explosive strength for the legs. Much more than anything else - just like he needed to do.

 

[Tommigun]

I prefer him skating to playing badminton, and I've said for some time that he bulked up too much and was too heavy last season. Just losing weight will make him quicker this season. He can still improve his skating technique, just like any young hockey player.

I'm glad they've realized a need to shift to getting leaner and quicker. Maybe Slaunwhite had some influence. He's always stressed the importance of focusing on speed and quickness, rather than just bulking up.

Yeah, Slaunwhite probably asked for a change in training focus. The fact they added skating to the mix was also probably something he ordered.

Edit: Oh Paul Maurice (the poster, not the coach) borrowed this from an article:
“-Slaunwhite thinks Laine doesn't need any more strength, which is why Patrik has focused on speed and explosiveness this summer.”
So yeah, this came from Slaunwhite. That’s good because he might have just bulked up again otherwise.

 

[Ippenator]

Yeah, he probably asked for a change in training focus. The fact they added skating to the mix was also probably something he ordered.

Nope, you are dead wrong. Just part of the longer span plan. He had similar focus as this year the season before he came to the NHL. But he needed to get a lot more of strength too. Especially to his core, as the core muscles are the real foundation for the body to be able to support effective and explosive skating. Then after that was fixed it was time to start doing what they have been doing this season.

He said clearly last season even before the Jets training camp that the main focus was to get general strength and mass, and that they knew then already that he will have a bit more challenging start for the season, but that it would start becoming better and easier the longer the season progressesd. This was well known right at the end of his last off-season.

Sure it was a season with not so much progress with his skating, but it was still the season when he was a lot stronger and had better balance, and when the foundation was made for this summer’s leg explosiveness to be efficient through the much stronger core. It was meant to happen, as they just can’t develop everything efficiently at the same time. Still he managed to have a great sophomore season, so definitely there was no mistake made, as they got his core and general strength pretty much fixed, as Slaunwhite has clearly already admitted too.

They are are going with their plan, and some here are still pushing their own agenda’s about them not knowing what they have been doing. I’m just telling these things on the basis of all the things Laine, Rautala and the Jets coaches and doctors have been saying all along, while you are basing your comments in how you happen to see things and how you even want them to be. There’s a big difference with these approaches.

 

[Whileee]

Well, I guess it makes you sad then that Laine has been playing much more tennis and badminton during last and this summer than he has been skating. I’m happy that he is doing both - at the right time and the right amounts of each. Based on what his leg muscles need. But the happiest I’m about him working so much for improving his physical weaknesses and explosive strength for the legs. Much more than anything else - just like he needed to do.

I'm okay if he's enjoying some badminton and tennis, as long as he's staying trim, working on quickness, and working on his skating. Sounds like he's doing those things. I still hope he'll realize the need to get some more skating training, but at least it looks like Rautala and Laine have been guided by Slaunwhite to focus more on quickness and less on bulking up. That's a big improvement. Skating training can be added later, I suppose.

 

[Whileee]

Nope, you are dead wrong. Just part of the longer span plan. He had similar focus as this year the season before he came to the NHL. But he needed to get a lot more of strength too. Especially to his core, as the core muscles are the real foundation for the body to be able to support effective and explosive skating. Then after that was fixed it was time to start doing what they have been doing this season.

He said clearly last season even before the Jets training camp that the main focus was to get general strength and mass, and that they knew then already that he will have a bit more challenging start for the season, but that it would start becoming better and easier the longer the season progressesd. This was well known right at the end of his last off-season.

Sure it was a season with not so much progress with his skating, but it was still the season when he was a lot stronger and had better balance, and when the foundation was made for this summer’s leg explosiveness to be efficient through the much stronger core. It was meant to happen, as they just can’t develop everything efficiently at the same time. Still he managed to have a great sophomore season, so definitely there was no mistake made, as they got his core and general strength pretty much fixed, as Slaunwhite has clearly already admitted too.

They are are going with their plan, and some here are still pushing their own agenda’s about them not knowing what they have been doing. I’m just telling these things on the basis of all the things Laine, Rautala and the Jets coaches and doctors have been saying all along, while you are basing your comments in how you happen to see things and how you even want them to be. There’s a big difference with these approaches.

You seem unable to admit that anything could have been less than perfect in Laine's training, even though he came to camp heavy and slow and has been guided to change his diet and lose weight. It's really kind of strange how defensive you are of Rautala.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I'm okay if he's enjoying some badminton and tennis, as long as he's staying trim, working on quickness, and working on his skating. Sounds like he's doing those things. I still hope he'll realize the need to get some more skating training, but at least it looks like Rautala and Laine have been guided by Slaunwhite to focus more on quickness and less on bulking up. That's a big improvement. Skating training can be added later, I suppose.

These things aren't limited to Laine. The entire training group does these things and focuses more on these things, so I'm pretty sure this stuff comes from Rautala. I doubt he's an imbecile.

 

[NotCommitted]

38 pages and counting ...

I really don't think judging results based on 1 summer is really wise in case of a young player, who also probably is lacking behind in some aspects of his physicality - I'm basing this on my gut feeling and some comments made by people who know better than me. Also time for bulking up is absolutely now that his body still takes on muscle very easily. He is 6'5", Lemieux and Lindros were an inch shorter and I think weighed around 230lb and 240lb... while Laine was maybe 220lb last season?

Yes, the game is different now, but a young player can afford to carry a lot of muscle if it's in the right places and they'll be stronger for it. Also it seems some people think all carrying more weight/muscle does is make him slower, but have you thought about what kind of beast a ~230lb Laine could be with the puck and in board battles?

Currently he is definitely underperforming by the boards compared to his size, but I think that's because of lack of strength and core. I have a feeling there are many areas where his physical training has lacked in his younger years compared to some others, in juniors he probably got along just fine with his size alone + it seems he really had some attitude problems some years back. In contrast I've always been amazed at how strong Sebastian Aho is on the puck, despite being a lot lighter and way more lanky looking than Laine. I always figured it was just because he's always been on the small side and had to learn how to compensate for that with technique, but then I read some article sometime ago and apparently he was always a heavy trainer and has some sort of background in gymnastics, which would be great for both core strength and agility/coordination, and it started to make sense.

Laine on the other hand is for the first time facing a situation where he doesn't have physical advantage to his peers (at least for now).

I find it also a bit funny how many people remember his rookie season through rose colored glasses and remark on how much better he looked back then than his 2nd season. I call bullshit on that, and there was A LOT of talk during his rookie season on how he looked like a bambi on a skates etc. Also he was a lot more inconsistent, during his rookie season there were many games where he absolutely LOOKED like he didn't belong in the NHL at all. Then he'd score a hat trick, sometimes in the very same game... History gives perspective on things, about this season people won't be remembering his "poor skating" and poor first steps, but the 44 goals and 70+ points and coming 2nd to Ovechkin in the race for Rocket.

I don't think random people on a hockey forum can have any sort of idea what kind of training he should be doing or accurately judge the results he is getting. After all, all we see is what happens on ice and what we *think* is the problem, while Laine and the people coaching him in his training will know exactly what is going on with him physically, his test results etc. etc. and if they are competent, should be able to come up with a long term training plan which works and also be able to adjust it as needed. And I believe in Laine's case it really is a long term plan what is needed. That doesn't mean people shouldn't expect improvement season to season, just that the full benefit is longer in the works.

I haven't done this, but I bet if you watch Laine rookie season games vs. Laine sophomore season games side-by-side, the second season Laine is a way more balanced and consistent player, physically as well. The better 5v5 production as a rookie was more about the whole Jets playsystem + playing with Scheifele instead of Little.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Laineen maalinälkä näkyy hoikistumisena – "Meillä on kovat odotukset Patrikin suhteen"

Here's the article i mentioned from Turun Sanomat.

Some points:

-Laine has lost 6 kilos and he says it's mostly because he stopped eating sugar (Jesus Christ, Patty). Looks a lot more athletic now, according to the writer.
-Winnipeg Jets strength and conditioning coach Craig Slaunwhite is visiting him and says that this is Patrik's best summer training season so far
-Slaunwhite thinks Laine doesn't need any more strength, which is why Patrik has focused on speed and explosiveness this summer.
-Marko Yrjövuori has been attending the camp (The guy who trains Kobe Bryant) once a week, teaching body control and movement stuff.
-Max Kolu has been giving them on-ice training once a week.

Great stuff

 

[Ippenator]

I'm okay if he's enjoying some badminton and tennis, as long as he's staying trim, working on quickness, and working on his skating. Sounds like he's doing those things. I still hope he'll realize the need to get some more skating training, but at least it looks like Rautala and Laine have been guided by Slaunwhite to focus more on quickness and less on bulking up. That's a big improvement. Skating training can be added later, I suppose.

Skating polishing to be added at the finishing line of the plan is almost sure to happen. Just like with the development that Barkov and Granlund went through. First 4 years of hard physical training, and then at the finishing line some blade control training with a figure skating coach.

A very superficial thing compared to the much, much more important hard physical training that they both needed very much. But still some nice polishing to the skating was definitely worth of doing after all the hardest work was done already. It will most probably add a nice small flavor into Laine’s development when all the much more important things are pretty much done already.

 

[Ippenator]

38 pages and counting ...

I really don't think judging results based on 1 summer is really wise in case of a young player, who also probably is lacking behind in some aspects of his physicality - I'm basing this on my gut feeling and some comments made by people who know better than me. Also time for bulking up is absolutely now that his body still takes on muscle very easily. He is 6'5", Lemieux and Lindros were an inch shorter and I think weighed around 230lb and 240lb... while Laine was maybe 220lb last season?

Yes, the game is different now, but a young player can afford to carry a lot of muscle if it's in the right places and they'll be stronger for it. Also it seems some people think all carrying more weight/muscle does is make him slower, but have you thought about what kind of beast a ~230lb Laine could be with the puck and in board battles?

Currently he is definitely underperforming by the boards compared to his size, but I think that's because of lack of strength and core. I have a feeling there are many areas where his physical training has lacked in his younger years compared to some others, in juniors he probably got along just fine with his size alone + it seems he really had some attitude problems some years back. In contrast I've always been amazed at how strong Sebastian Aho is on the puck, despite being a lot lighter and way more lanky looking than Laine. I always figured it was just because he's always been on the small side and had to learn how to compensate for that with technique, but then I read some article sometime ago and apparently he was always a heavy trainer and has some sort of background in gymnastics, which would be great for both core strength and agility/coordination, and it started to make sense.

Laine on the other hand is for the first time facing a situation where he doesn't have physical advantage to his peers (at least for now).

I find it also a bit funny how many people remember his rookie season through rose colored glasses and remark on how much better he looked back then than his 2nd season. I call bull**** on that, and there was A LOT of talk during his rookie season on how he looked like a bambi on a skates etc. Also he was a lot more inconsistent, during his rookie season there were many games where he absolutely LOOKED like he didn't belong in the NHL at all. Then he'd score a hat trick, sometimes in the very same game... History gives perspective on things, about this season people won't be remembering his "poor skating" and poor first steps, but the 44 goals and 70+ points and coming 2nd to Ovechkin in the race for Rocket.

I don't think random people on a hockey forum can have any sort of idea what kind of training he should be doing or accurately judge the results he is getting. After all, all we see is what happens on ice and what we *think* is the problem, while Laine and the people coaching him in his training will know exactly what is going on with him physically, his test results etc. etc. and if they are competent, should be able to come up with a long term training plan which works and also be able to adjust it as needed. And I believe in Laine's case it really is a long term plan what is needed. That doesn't mean people shouldn't expect improvement season to season, just that the full benefit is longer in the works.

I haven't done this, but I bet if you watch Laine rookie season games vs. Laine sophomore season games side-by-side, the second season Laine is a way more balanced and consistent player, physically as well. The better 5v5 production as a rookie was more about the whole Jets playsystem + playing with Scheifele instead of Little.

Very good and very, very well thought out and understanding post, sir. I tip my hat for you! No need to post in this thread any more, as the truth came just there.

 

[Ippenator]

You seem unable to admit that anything could have been less than perfect in Laine's training, even though he came to camp heavy and slow and has been guided to change his diet and lose weight. It's really kind of strange how defensive you are of Rautala.

You seem to refuse to accept that they have a plan, where they focus on different things that are crucial for his development each off-season. I know that some of you are all about skating and believe that a young hockey player should just skate, skate, skate, until he magically becomes an amazing top player. But that’s not simply how it works for any young players. There are years when you have to prioritize very much in something else to make still sure that you are the best possible player in five years, not just for the next season, if it means that then you will after all be a worse player in five years, if you didn’t also train your other areas enough.

This is simply what you refuse to accept.

 

[Whileee]

You seem to refuse to accept that they have a plan, where they focus on different things that are crucial for his development each off-season. I know that some of you are all about skating and believe that a young hockey player should just skate, skate, skate, until he magically becomes an amazing top player. But that’s not simply how it works for any young players. There are years when you have to prioritize very much in something else to make still sure that you are the best possible player in five years, not just for the next season, if it means that then you will after all be a worse player in five years, if you didn’t also train your other areas enough.

This is simply what you refuse to accept.

I'm sure they have a plan. But that doesn't mean the plan is perfect and can't be improved. It also doesn't mean that sometimes the plan is not completely followed. I think that Laine's change in diet to become leaner, and more focus on speed and quickness indicates that Laine needed to lose bulk and that Rautala's training has been modified somewhat to adjust for the greater need for quickness in the NHL compared to previously.

Not a single person has advocated against off-ice strength training for Laine, so you are introducing in a straw man argument (which usually means that your main arguments are weaker than you would like). Those of us that have questioned Laine's training have indicated that having no skating doesn't seem logical, when most other trainers have included skating as part of their off-season training. Now, Rautala's group has included skating, so perhaps he's adjusting with the times and the demands of those who train with them.

You can continue to claim that everything about Rautala's training and Laine's progress in his fitness and stamina has been flawless, but I'm not sure what the point is. I and most others just want Laine to be the best player he can be, so I'm happy that they have recognized some need to alter the training and diet somewhat to address any areas of weakness.

 

[Hunter368]

His training has been for the summer enormously more about fixing his physical weaknesses than about skating. Skating has been a very small minority of his off-season training. Just a small adjusting with it once a week. Everything else has been about training a lot of explosiveness and stamina for his legs.

Just according to their plan, they were during the first off-season (2015) with Rautala fixing carefully his leg power and condition gradually after his knee injury and operation. That was about really professional recovery training. Then the second off-season (2016) they were training the most explosive strength, the third off-season (2017) was about mostly training general strength and strength to his core, to help him use then with his skating more efficiently the explosive power that he was training again as the focus for the fourth off-season with Rautala (2018).

So the skate-skate -people will not be proven right about anything. Laine is not skating much at all even this summer. Some adjusting skating, which is definitely useful after all the hard physical training during June and July. Rautala, Laine and the Jets coaching are proved very much right with their plan and their approach, if his development continues well with his production and overall game during the starting season. No one else can take even a bit of credit for it. Especially no one on these boards.

Not sure if it’s a language issue or not, I’m guessing by your writing style English is not your first language. You seem to have misinterpreted my post, when I said skate skate group I meant (if I wasn’t clear) improve his skating from day one.....not specifically saying literally skate every day. I couldn’t careless how he does it, it’s all a means to an end (as I’ve stated before multi times)......I couldn’t careless how he does it as long as he has a plan to improve it and makes progress on his plan each year.

Now let’s talk about this “multi year plan”. Real question can you show me a link to this plan when it was made/discussed publicly for the first time? English version only.

 

[Trilliann]

Yeah, Slaunwhite probably asked for a change in training focus. The fact they added skating to the mix was also probably something he ordered.

Edit: Oh Paul Maurice (the poster, not the coach) borrowed this from an article:
“-Slaunwhite thinks Laine doesn't need any more strength, which is why Patrik has focused on speed and explosiveness this summer.”
So yeah, this came from Slaunwhite. That’s good because he might have just bulked up again otherwise.

Slaunwhite called last summer successful though

 

[Tommigun]

Nope, you are dead wrong. Just part of the longer span plan. He had similar focus as this year the season before he came to the NHL. But he needed to get a lot more of strength too. Especially to his core, as the core muscles are the real foundation for the body to be able to support effective and explosive skating. Then after that was fixed it was time to start doing what they have been doing this season.

He said clearly last season even before the Jets training camp that the main focus was to get general strength and mass, and that they knew then already that he will have a bit more challenging start for the season, but that it would start becoming better and easier the longer the season progressesd. This was well known right at the end of his last off-season.

Sure it was a season with not so much progress with his skating, but it was still the season when he was a lot stronger and had better balance, and when the foundation was made for this summer’s leg explosiveness to be efficient through the much stronger core. It was meant to happen, as they just can’t develop everything efficiently at the same time. Still he managed to have a great sophomore season, so definitely there was no mistake made, as they got his core and general strength pretty much fixed, as Slaunwhite has clearly already admitted too.

They are are going with their plan, and some here are still pushing their own agenda’s about them not knowing what they have been doing. I’m just telling these things on the basis of all the things Laine, Rautala and the Jets coaches and doctors have been saying all along, while you are basing your comments in how you happen to see things and how you even want them to be. There’s a big difference with these approaches.

Ok, please tell me why I’m dead wrong. I quoted the article that explicitly said Slaunwhite said Liane has enough strength and should focus on speed. It was a straight quote so who are you to dismiss it? Was the interview and article lying and you have insider information?

 

[Howard Chuck]

Slaunwhite called last summer successful though

Is there a quote, because not to continue the debate, this has always been my opinion, that the focus was bulking last year intentionally at the expense of speed/agility, and now this year the focus will be on speed/agility.

I also believe that this is the recommended approach for some athletes directly from the Jets and designed from the Jets, since Laine isn't the first to go through this at this stage of his development. I think it's a targeted approach for a multi year program for select athletes.

It sacrifices a year of speed and agility for a career of strength and durability.

My opinion only, with nothing to back it up.

 

[armyjoe]

“-Slaunwhite thinks Laine doesn't need any more strength, which is why Patrik has focused on speed and explosiveness this summer.”
So yeah, this came from Slaunwhite. That’s good because he might have just bulked up again otherwise.

That is just you making things up "he might have just played fortnite rest of the off season otherwise". The plan was to gain strenght first (see, last off season) and then shift focus on other things.

E: actually, you are right. They would have continued strenght training because that is what Rautala is for. But I fail to understand why it is Rautala's foul to do what he is supposed to do.

 

[Trilliann]

Is there a quote, because not to continue the debate, this has always been my opinion, that the focus was bulking last year intentionally at the expense of speed/agility, and now this year the focus will be on speed/agility.

I also believe that this is the recommended approach for some athletes directly from the Jets and designed from the Jets, since Laine isn't the first to go through this at this stage of his development. I think it's a targeted approach for a multi year program for select athletes.

It sacrifices a year of speed and agility for a career of strength and durability.

My opinion only, with nothing to back it up.

Yea, when the article was first brought up here

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/148608645/

 

[Howard Chuck]

Yea, when the article was first brought up here

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/148608645/

Thanks. If I can cherry pick the relevant points:

• Last summer Laine was focusing on power, this year the focus is on speed.
• Slaunwhite says Laine has progressed well and should be even better(and faster) next season.
• Slaunwhite says that after last summer's successful training Laine now has enough power and doesn't need more of it. Now is the time to focus on speed.

Sounds to me like this has been the plan all along. Last year power, this year speed.

 

[Ippenator]

Ok, please tell me why I’m dead wrong. I quoted the article that explicitly said Slaunwhite said Liane has enough strength and should focus on speed. It was a straight quote so who are you to dismiss it? Was the interview and article lying and you have insider information?

He didn’t say that he was the one deciding that Laine had enough of strength he just stated it as a fact. He was clearly pointing out that he was there just to see how things are going and told how satisfied he was with the results and how Rautala and Laine had been doing last season and this season. He was not intervening there with anything, as you should have read and realized that he was pleased with Laine’s training.

 

[Whileee]

Thanks. If I can cherry pick the relevant points:

• Last summer Laine was focusing on power, this year the focus is on speed.
• Slaunwhite says Laine has progressed well and should be even better(and faster) next season.
• Slaunwhite says that after last summer's successful training Laine now has enough power and doesn't need more of it. Now is the time to focus on speed.

Sounds to me like this has been the plan all along. Last year power, this year speed.

I also think it might have been Slaunwhite not wanting to sound critical of the bulking up approach. I've seen previous interviews with Slaunwhite where he has indicated that his approach is all about speed and quickness and lean muscle development. At the combine a few years ago he made that clear.

I think the fact that Slaunwhite appears more engaged with Laine this off season and has focused on getting him to lose some weight indicates that he might think Laine overdid the bulking up last year, but tactfully avoiding any direct criticism.

Also, I don't think the Jets were happy when other young players bulked up at the expense of quickness, particularly Ehlers and Morrissey. I think it was viewed as a mistaken approach by the team and players.

 

[Ippenator]

I also think it might have been Slaunwhite not wanting to sound critical of the bulking up approach. I've seen previous interviews with Slaunwhite where he has indicated that his approach is all about speed and quickness and lean muscle development. At the combine a few years ago he made that clear.

I think the fact that Slaunwhite appears more engaged with Laine this off season and has focused on getting him to lose some weight indicates that he might think Laine overdid the bulking up last year, but tactfully avoiding any direct criticism.

Also, I don't think the Jets were happy when other young players bulked up at the expense of quickness, particularly Ehlers and Morrissey. I think it was viewed as a mistaken approach by the team and players.

Slaunwhite has been visiting Finland the same way since 2016 and checking on Laine’s training and saying every visit that the training is very much what he believes in good training and that he has been happy with the results. Why you intentionally tell things that are not true? What do you get from that?

Your claims are based on your own personal thoughts and you have to bring them up with ”I think”- or ”might have been”-scenarios constantly. Oh boy, I thought that the tinfoil hats were not used anymore after some were laughing so much at the claims of Maurice not playing Laine optimally because of not wanting to raise his salary too much.

If that was worth of the tinfoil hat-comments, then for sure we are having some tinfoil hats out from the closet again.