Value of: Kyle Palmieri and Blake Coleman

[Blackjack]

They're a wash at best, Heinen probably has a little more value considering his age. Coleman is playing in these situations because he plays for an awful team. He wouldn't kill penalties for the Bruins. For all the talk about Coleman, he is 28 and on pace for 46 points while playing big minutes. He's a nice player, but not that good.

Coleman is 15th in the league in 5v5 G/60, right behind Marchand. Pavel Zacha scores more than Heinan does and he's 2 years younger. Yeah, Heinan definitely has a little more value.

NHL.com Stats

Enjoy Toffoli.

 

[Skelen]

Take Coleman out of the deal, Boston has enough NHL ready prospects they don't need another middle 6 player.

NJ:
Palms

Bos:
Backes (has to go for cap)
Vaak OR Lauzon
1st 2020
4th 2021 (3rd if Boston makes the finals either year)

Boston can then trade off Moore if they need to free up cap for Krug and to recoup a pick or two. My guess is NJ uses other teams against each other for a bidding war if Palms does get dealt, not sure what other prospect interest NJ not named Studnicka, but that's the only other thing I would add.

 

[devils29]

They're a wash at best, Heinen probably has a little more value considering his age. Coleman is playing in these situations because he plays for an awful team. He wouldn't kill penalties for the Bruins. For all the talk about Coleman, he is 28 and on pace for 46 points while playing big minutes. He's a nice player, but not that good.

you’re someone who just looks at stats, never watches a player then thinks you know everything about them from a piece of paper aren’t you? Coleman is far and away the better player here and is no where close to!a wash or has less value than Heinen... wtf lol

 

[ninetyeight]

They're a wash at best, Heinen probably has a little more value considering his age. Coleman is playing in these situations because he plays for an awful team. He wouldn't kill penalties for the Bruins. For all the talk about Coleman, he is 28 and on pace for 46 points while playing big minutes. He's a nice player, but not that good.

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously haven't seen much of him play, nor have you seen other stats than points. Coleman doesn't play PK because the Devils don't have anyone better, he plays PK because he's an amazing at it. Look up his shorthanded goals, or the countless takeaways and breakaways he has had on PK. Look up how many shots he generates, I think he's top20 in the league overall, but in the last few months he's #2 in the league. Excluding ELC, I think Coleman might as well be the best player at that price range in the NHL.

The whole Devils crew had an awful start to the season, so that shows in all of their stats.

 

[Root]

Coleman is 15th in the league in 5v5 G/60, right behind Marchand. Pavel Zacha scores more than Heinan does and he's 2 years younger. Yeah, Heinan definitely has a little more value.

NHL.com Stats

Enjoy Toffoli.

you’re someone who just looks at stats, never watches a player then thinks you know everything about them from a piece of paper aren’t you? Coleman is far and away the better player here and is no where close to!a wash or has less value than Heinen... wtf lol

I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously haven't seen much of him play, nor have you seen other stats than points. Coleman doesn't play PK because the Devils don't have anyone better, he plays PK because he's an amazing at it. Look up his shorthanded goals, or the countless takeaways and breakaways he has had on PK. Look up how many shots he generates, I think he's top20 in the league overall, but in the last few months he's #2 in the league. Excluding ELC, I think Coleman might as well be the best player at that price range in the NHL.

The whole Devils crew had an awful start to the season, so that shows in all of their stats.

I don't know why you guys are getting sensitive. I never said Coleman was a bad player. I just think he is getting overvalued and Heinen is getting undervalued. This is what happens when you play on a bad team...you get more ice time and your numbers are inflated. On a contending team he is a nice third line player. On a bad team he is a top 6 guy. Put Heinen on the Devils he'd be doing the same thing. He's a good player, as is Coleman. Not someone you overpay for.

We can agree to disagree on his value, but you guys saying Coleman is far more valuable than Heinen shows you guys don't know anything about him as a player more so than me knowing nothing about Coleman.

 

[Blackjack]

Take Coleman out of the deal, Boston has enough NHL ready prospects they don't need another middle 6 player.

NJ:
Palms

Bos:
Backes (has to go for cap)
Vaak OR Lauzon
1st 2020
4th 2021 (3rd if Boston makes the finals either year)

Boston can then trade off Moore if they need to free up cap for Krug and to recoup a pick or two. My guess is NJ uses other teams against each other for a bidding war if Palms does get dealt, not sure what other prospect interest NJ not named Studnicka, but that's the only other thing I would add.

In my view Palmieri is worth a 1st and prospect (because of the additional year), and taking Backes's contract is also worth a 1st. NJ can retain 50% on Palmieri and Cap Friendly lists Boston as having $3 million in LTIR space so that would be enough. So Palmieri (50% retained) for Vaak or Lauzon plus the first, you can keep the extra pick.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Coleman plays 3 more minutes per game than Heinan but he spends those minutes on the penalty kill. Heinan also get 2:00 of power play time per game while Coleman gets basically none. So no, they are not a wash, and if Heinan got Coleman's minutes he'd score less and get scored on more. Enjoy Toffoli.

I like how you ignore the fact it took Coleman until
he was 26 to play full time in the NHL and Heinen
is still 25 and his defensive game is his biggest strength
so you have no idea what you're talking about regarding
Heinen. If your criticism of him was no physical game I would drive that bus for sure.

 

[devils29]

I don't know why you guys are getting sensitive. I never said Coleman was a bad player. I just think he is getting overvalued and Heinen is getting undervalued. This is what happens when you play on a bad team...you get more ice time and your numbers are inflated. On a contending team he is a nice third line player. On a bad team he is a top 6 guy. Put Heinen on the Devils he'd be doing the same thing. He's a good player, as is Coleman. Not someone you overpay for.

We can agree to disagree on his value, but you guys saying Coleman is far more valuable than Heinen shows you guys don't know anything about him as a player more so than me knowing nothing about Coleman.

Because you are severely underrating Coleman and over valueing Heinen saying “oh well this would happen if” well that didn’t happen because they are different players with different talent levels. Coleman has more than proven he’s one of the best middle 6ers in the league. You’re out to lunch comparing the two saying they’re similar lmao

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I don't know why you guys are getting sensitive. I never said Coleman was a bad player. I just think he is getting overvalued and Heinen is getting undervalued. This is what happens when you play on a bad team...you get more ice time and your numbers are inflated. On a contending team he is a nice third line player. On a bad team he is a top 6 guy. Put Heinen on the Devils he'd be doing the same thing. He's a good player, as is Coleman. Not someone you overpay for.

We can agree to disagree on his value, but you guys saying Coleman is far more valuable than Heinen shows you guys don't know anything about him a
s a player more so than me knowing nothing about Coleman.

They want you to think your paying for Timo Meier
not Blake Coleman.

 

[Blackjack]

I like how you ignore the fact it took Coleman until
he was 26 to play full time in the NHL and Heinen
is still 25 and his defensive game is his biggest strength
so you have no idea what you're talking about regarding
Heinen. If your criticism of him was no physical game I would drive that bus for sure.

And Coleman didn't have any trade value until he emerged as one of the better two way forwards in the game. Sit down.

 

[Blackjack]

They want you to think your paying for Timo Meier
not Blake Coleman.

Enjoy Toffoli.

 

[AfroThunder396]

At even strength:

T-20th in goals in the league
Starts in the offensive zone only 43.8%

On the penalty kill:

T-1st in shorthanded goals
2nd in shorthanded shots
T-7th in fewest PPG against/60

Coleman is clearly one of the best penalty killers in the world and is scoring at a 1st line pace this season. Remember, his linemates are a shutdown center turning 35 this season and a 1st year Russian winger who was a healthy scratch earlier this season.

Blake Coleman is better than Zucker, Kreider, Toffoli, I mean if the Devils make him available (which would be stupid) he's easily one of the top-5 players available at the deadline.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Enjoy Toffoli.

Enjoy irrelevance as a franchise with
Blake "The Franchise" Coleman...lol.

 

[alg363636]

Stop.

Vesakainan might be a fringe NHL player. Lauzon is waiver fodder. Heinen is a bottom six forward. The first will be in the 25-31 range.

Again, stop.

This is garbage. Lauzon came up and was playing with no hesitation as a #4 just last week (before the suspension). He is big, tough and I sure as shit have no desire to let him go. MacAvoy, Carlo and Lauzon would be an amazing d-core for us.

Vaak at this point is projected to be at least a middle pairing dman and there is nothing to imply otherwise. Might he be a bust? Sure. Any prospect might be. But at this point there is every reason to be excited about him.

I'm not arguing whether the value is right or wrong but you're talking out of your ass.

 

[Forge]

Take Coleman out of the deal, Boston has enough NHL ready prospects they don't need another middle 6 player.

NJ:
Palms

Bos:
Backes (has to go for cap)
Vaak OR Lauzon
1st 2020
4th 2021 (3rd if Boston makes the finals either year)

Boston can then trade off Moore if they need to free up cap for Krug and to recoup a pick or two. My guess is NJ uses other teams against each other for a bidding war if Palms does get dealt, not sure what other prospect interest NJ not named Studnicka, but that's the only other thing I would add.

This is actually close to what I had pegged as the range for palms as well. I had a second in 21, but obviously this is close enough where a compromise could be made and common ground found. I'd probably go with Vaak over Lauzon, though admittedly in the few instances I have seen him play, I've liked what I've seen from Lauzon

 

[Todd Parchment]

I think a desperate GM is going to shell out a 1st or 2 2nds for Coleman.


Probably a mistake but maybe he surprises on a new team and keeps his point totals up and makes it look smart.

Im convinced that Palmarei will re sign with eggs Devils

 

[Smitty426]

At even strength:

T-20th in goals in the league
Starts in the offensive zone only 43.8%

On the penalty kill:

T-1st in shorthanded goals
2nd in shorthanded shots
T-7th in fewest PPG against/60

Coleman is clearly one of the best penalty killers in the world and is scoring at a 1st line pace this season. Remember, his linemates are a shutdown center turning 35 this season and a 1st year Russian winger who was a healthy scratch earlier this season.

Blake Coleman is better than Zucker, Kreider, Toffoli, I mean if the Devils make him available (which would be stupid) he's easily one of the top-5 players available at the deadline.

He sucks! ; )

 

[HBK27]

Not sure if we're good trading partners but I've always loved Coleman and think he'd make a great fit on the Avs. Would you guys be interested in something centering around Zadorov?

I don't know too much about Zadorov, other than he appears in about 90% of the trade proposals made by Avs fans and is in his 6th season in the NHL yet only averaging 18:21 of ice time, which is 5th among Avs d-men (though only a second behind Graves). He doesn't get any PP time and is 4th among Avs d-men on PK time, so seems he doesn't do either of those particularly well. Only Makar and Girard (both only 21 years old) get less time on the PK.

So, what am I missing here about him that would have Devils fans excited aside from him still being kinda young (he'll be 25 in April) and a former 1st round pick? He's also what...maybe 2-3 seasons away from being a UFA? Just doesn't seem like the type of player NJ should be targeting, even if they are desperate for help on LD. I think they need to go after younger players/prospects/picks that align better with the Nico/Hughes/Smith prime years. If you're going to deal away players like Coleman/Palmieri, you don't do it for a player like Zadorov that could bolt in a few years.

 

[PlayMakers]

Surprised you think those two are worth that much. to me Heinen and Coleman are a wash at best. And I don't mean that as a shot at Coleman. Heinen is a good player, younger and very smart. I have no doubt Heinen would outproduce Coleman if he was getting the minutes Coleman is getting in New Jersey.

So that leaves a 1st, 2nd Vaak and Lauzon for Palmieri...? No shot I do that, and I like Palmieri a lot. He's my first choice for the Bruins to acquire to play with Krejci. But at this price I'm good with going for Toffoli

I went with a strong package specifically because I value Coleman. His work ethic and compete level are off the charts. He's heavy, he hits, he's got speed, he scores goals... He would be a warrior in a playoff run.

I do agree with you that Heinen is a good, young player. One of the smartest players on the Bruins IMHO. He's going to be another Reilly Smith for Boston, a guy they kind of undervalued and let go, who goes on to put up 50+ point seasons consistently in a top6 role. Hopefully they trade him to someone who sees that upside, because I don't think he's going to realize his potential on the 3rd line in Boston.

 

[Root]

At even strength:

T-20th in goals in the league
Starts in the offensive zone only 43.8%

On the penalty kill:

T-1st in shorthanded goals
2nd in shorthanded shots
T-7th in fewest PPG against/60

Coleman is clearly one of the best penalty killers in the world and is scoring at a 1st line pace this season. Remember, his linemates are a shutdown center turning 35 this season and a 1st year Russian winger who was a healthy scratch earlier this season.

Blake Coleman is better than Zucker, Kreider, Toffoli, I mean if the Devils make him available (which would be stupid) he's easily one of the top-5 players available at the deadline.

Okay...this is just delusional. You're overvaluing Coleman based on him having a career year in his age 28 season projected to hit a whopping 46 points. I know Coleman is a good all around player and stats don't tell the whole story but the highlighted is just absurd.

Kreider is a much better player, Zucker is better and Toffoli is comparable.

He sucks! ; )

Did anyone say this? Sensitive bunch...now I know

 

[Root]

I went with a strong package specifically because I value Coleman. His work ethic and compete level are off the charts. He's heavy, he hits, he's got speed, he scores goals... He would be a warrior in a playoff run.

I do agree with you that Heinen is a good, young player. One of the smartest players on the Bruins IMHO. He's going to be another Reilly Smith for Boston, a guy they kind of undervalued and let go, who goes on to put up 50+ point seasons consistently in a top6 role. Hopefully they trade him to someone who sees that upside, because I don't think he's going to realize his potential on the 3rd line in Boston.

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying which is exactly why I would be disappointed to see the Bruins move him as a throw in. He's been frustrating the hell out of me lately but I have no doubt when the Bruins move him and he plays more he will get back to the 47 point per season numbers he put up his first season while bringing his defensive game.

For the rest of this season I'd take Coleman...for the upcoming seasons I'd take Heinen.

 

[Smitty426]

Okay...this is just delusional. You're overvaluing Coleman based on him having a career year in his age 28 season projected to hit a whopping 46 points. I know Coleman is a good all around player and stats don't tell the whole story but the highlighted is just absurd.

Kreider is a much better player, Zucker is better and Toffoli is comparable.



Did anyone say this? Sensitive bunch...now I know

Yes I'm sensitive, says the guy who has to quote the winking eye post

 

[TrufleShufle]

Enjoy irrelevance as a franchise with
Blake "The Franchise" Coleman...lol.

This post right here is why I cringed when I saw Coleman's name in the title. He is very important to the Devils and there is nothing that the Devils can reasonably expect in return that would outweigh losing him.


Hey, would you guys trade Colman?

No

What would it take to get him?

Not worth discussing, because he is more important to the future of the Devils than anything they would get.

How about a cap dump and some picks?

No.

OK! Keep your "SUPERSTAR" player, good luck lol!

K thanks.

 

[TanguaySauce]

I don't know too much about Zadorov, other than he appears in about 90% of the trade proposals made by Avs fans and is in his 6th season in the NHL yet only averaging 18:21 of ice time, which is 5th among Avs d-men (though only a second behind Graves). He doesn't get any PP time and is 4th among Avs d-men on PK time, so seems he doesn't do either of those particularly well. Only Makar and Girard (both only 21 years old) get less time on the PK.

So, what am I missing here about him that would have Devils fans excited aside from him still being kinda young (he'll be 25 in April) and a former 1st round pick? He's also what...maybe 2-3 seasons away from being a UFA? Just doesn't seem like the type of player NJ should be targeting, even if they are desperate for help on LD. I think they need to go after younger players/prospects/picks that align better with the Nico/Hughes/Smith prime years. If you're going to deal away players like Coleman/Palmieri, you don't do it for a player like Zadorov that could bolt in a few years.

He doesn't get PP time because we ice 4 forwards and Makar on PP1 and 4 forwards with Girard on PP2 who are both better skaters and puckhandlers.

He doesn't get much PK time because we give up power play goals in the first 30 seconds like it's our job.

While nowhere near the player that Stevens was, the way they play the game is fairly similar. Big body that can throw his weight around and makes his presence felt. Can also be counted on to shadow the top line of other teams which he does decently. I do agree that we would need to add in a deal for Coleman (maybe a 3rd or B level prospect) but I think its a decent start like OP asked.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

This post right here is why I cringed when I saw Coleman's name in the title. He is very important to the Devils and there is nothing that the Devils can reasonably expect in return that would outweigh losing him.


Hey, would you guys trade Colman?

No

What would it take to get him?

Not worth discussing, because he is more important to the future of the Devils than anything they would get.

How about a cap dump and some picks?

No.

OK! Keep your "SUPERSTAR" player, good luck lol!

K thanks.

I have NHL CI and know how good he is. I'm a huge
USA Hockey fan and saw how well he played in
the 2018 WHC. What I was sarcastically responding to
was the asshattery of calling Lauzon a waiver wire dump
along with completely discrediting Heinen. Heinen
is a 3rd line wing on a bubble PO team with a very good defensive game and an almost invisible physical game.
I would rather make a deal for Wood that involves
Heinen.

I'm well aware if Boston wanted Coleman its obviously more than Heinen going your way.