Post-Game Talk: KY with the clutch DP

[Drivesaitl]

Draisaitl needs to get off the ice a lot earlier. There were a few instances last night even where the rest of his line had already changed and he's still out there with 2/3rd's of another line with no urgency to get off the ice. He also doesn't need to play 90 seconds+ of the pp each time he's out there.

Holy crap. The first unit PP is probably instructed to stayout the vast majority of the PP because, you may have noted, we have virtually no other PP players. To put this on Drai when the whole unit are out is laughable. This is a bad club lacking entirely indepth trying to desperately mask it, and maximize their time spent on PP, because we have nobody else.

As far as the long shifting drai and McD both do it and largely, again, because the team lacks much lineup depth and lacks forwards that can adequately play even a dozen minutes. Now if Drai was doing this on some team deep with talent or depth or something then absolutely I would go at it. But EVERY coach here has maxed out McDrai and thrown them over the boards frequently. None of them have sought to minimize their icetime in any way and all of them keep throwing them out there as much as possible.

 

[RegDunlop]

My PVR f**ked up. (Or I did!).
Anyway, I like to go over GDT after to feel the pulse of everyone here after watching.
Couldnt believe how predictable and apprehensive everyone was. And for good reason!

I was laughing at myself at how pissed I was reading through - even though I never saw the game - then finish with a sigh of relief.
Guess I'm as demented as the team!

 

[ZJuice]

Fixed it..
[BREAKING NEWS GRAPHIC]

COILERS?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Benson is no Kassian but I believe he is a two way playmaking winger that can and does go to the dirty areas.

Benson feeds both Drai and Yamamoto while Draisaitl feeds Yamamoto.

As lol as it is Yamamoto is supposed to be a shooter.

All 3 are more "offensive" style players. All 3 are supposedly decent 200 foot players. And if they check Draisaitl line and McDavid line that opens up Nuge and Sheahan to have easier nights...

...exactly like last night.

Draisaitl will get his mcpoints on the PP and the team is a little better imo.

Also. McDrai isn't that great 5v5 themselves so im not sure it matters much if they get double teamed.

Just like Crosby and Malkin this opens ice for the whole team.

I'll take your word on Benson, you've probably seen more than I have of him. But at this level in preseason and prospects he's been largely peripheral, trying to setup from the sideboards, and trying to make a lot of unsuccessful passes through traffic with little results.

Yama is hardly what I consider a shooter. At this level he's just not had anything and is shooting at 5% even with the empty net goal helping out the stat..He doesn't appear to get a lot of mustard on his shot. maybe enough to beat AHL goalies in close.

Yama, in his times here has been very poor getting open for Drai. Yama has had trouble separating and getting into open ice and when he is he's too far removed to pass to. Happened again last night. Drai essentially ends up eating the puck being double teamed, or giving it away trying to make a play when he's on with Yama who is just not provding adequate puck support. Maybe the NHL game is moving far too quickly for Yama, and that's fair, but most players that are expected to be topsix find their way here by age 21.

Right now a young Drai is struggling at EV and our answer to that is giving him two even yonger AHL linemates. Seems like a real bad idea.

 

[McXLNC97]

Holy crap. The first unit PP is probably instructed to stayout the vast majority of the PP because, you may have noted, we have virtually no other PP players. To put this on Drai when the whole unit are out is laughable. This is a bad club lacking entirely indepth trying to desperately mask it, and maximize their time spent on PP, because we have nobody else.

As far as the long shifting drai and McD both do it and largely, again, because the team lacks much lineup depth and lacks forwards that can adequately play even a dozen minutes. Now if Drai was doing this on some team deep with talent or depth or something then absolutely I would go at it. But EVERY coach here has maxed out McDrai and thrown them over the boards frequently. None of them have sought to minimize their icetime in any way and all of them keep throwing them out there as much as possible.

Drai doesn't even move his feet when he has the puck at centre ice on the pp. Watch the replays, he's either standing still, or just gliding. Heck even Nuge moves his feet to gain the offensive zone from time to time. Just because the coach sends him over the boards doesn't mean he needs to be on the ice for 70-80 seconds. Nobody has bleed more goals defensively in the past month amongst the forwards than Drasaitl has. So yeah, others may not be chippin in the offense as much as needed, but they are also not out there getting constantly scored on at 5 on 5 either.

 

[McXLNC97]

I'll take your word on Benson, you've probably seen more than I have of him. But at this level in preseason and prospects he's been largely peripheral, trying to setup from the sideboards, and trying to make a lot of unsuccessful passes through traffic with little results.

Yama is hardly what I consider a shooter. At this level he's just not had anything and is shooting at 5% even with the empty net goal helping out the stat..He doesn't appear to get a lot of mustard on his shot. maybe enough to beat AHL goalies in close.

Yama, in his times here has been very poor getting open for Drai. Yama has had trouble separating and getting into open ice and when he is he's too far removed to pass to. Happened again last night. Drai essentially ends up eating the puck being double teamed, or giving it away trying to make a play when he's on with Yama who is just not provding adequate puck support. Maybe the NHL game is moving far too quickly for Yama, and that's fair, but most players that are expected to be topsix find their way here by age 21.

Right now a young Drai is struggling at EV and our answer to that is giving him two even yonger AHL linemates. Seems like a real bad idea.

You keep blaming Drai's linemates, yet somehow it's never Drai's fault. McDavid still faces the top defensive assignments even with Drai on his own line. Heck even Drai himself has admitted he has been playing crappy hockey, yet you, of course see no flaws in his game....it's always the linemates fault, or the coaches fault.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

Who else thought that Larsson, Draisaitl, Khaira, and Kassian all had pretty bad showings that game

 

[GMofOilers]

It’s really time for Drai to put his big boy pants on and play like a 2nd line Center and make players around him better.

Something he has never been capable doing for long stretches.

 

[MaxR11]

So the confusing aspect shortened.

Others: you're biased about Drai.

Me: Ok, I'm biased then, I preferred the term unconditional regard, its more apt, but if the board perceives me as biased on Drai, fine, I've always admitted I have unconditional regard for great players such as Drai. not sure why I wouldn't for such a great player.

Finally, I don't expect every game, week or even every month of a player to be great. No player in an 82 game season is. What player is. Not even McD or Drai. The NHL season can best be described as a war of attrition. its a marathon not a foot race. You take the good with the bad, and remember the good. I remember last season Drai had a sensational closing kick as well.

Drai's numbers are great but is he really a great player away from Connor? Connor is still great without Drai. I don't think many are disputing that Leon has some very nice skills. He's got good vision and passing abilities and can handle/protect the puck well. He's improved his skating and speed and it shows at times but not consistently. He shoots the puck well.

Drai and Connor were putrid defensively for an important mid stretch last year. It was like a repeat of this last month where i swear it felt like all our goals against were them on the ice together. This stretch by Drai isn't a one off. He's been putrid defensively, offensive decision making and forcing things and effort-wise. He simply doesn't want to learn to simplify and concentrate on defence first which is necessary when he's obviously not feeling his mojo now. I saw him STILL yesterday overhandle the puck when a nice simple quicker play with the puck would have really gotten a good flow for the rest of his linemates. He hung on too long and gave away the puck several times when he should have made a simpler play to linemates who were ready and waiting for the cycle down low etc. Makes it hard for his linemates to get their flow going when he's too slow to move the puck.

On the pp it seems Connor is getting the idea that we need to move the puck quicker and move bodies around and not dust it off for a few seconds. Once in a while is fine to hang on to the puck for a few ticks but Leon seems to always do it and often, recently, it kills the momentum of the pp.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You keep blaming Drai's linemates, yet somehow it's never Drai's fault. McDavid still faces the top defensive assignments even with Drai on his own line. Heck even Drai himself has admitted he has been playing crappy hockey, yet you, of course see no flaws in his game....it's always the linemates fault, or the coaches fault.

"No flaws in his game" I didn't state that. I stated no player is ever perfect, and I fully believe it because human athletes happen to be human. Full of flaws. As we ALL are.

I don't fault find excellence. Again, how hard is that to understand. EVERY superstar in virtually every sport has crap times where they aren't being that good. Drai has him too. Its not like I'm not seeing it, I'm just not interested in kicking him in the nuts when he's down, and acknowledging hes down. He's actually a very nice guy, consummate pro, good as they get, and some people not only want to piss on him, they expect me to do it too.

nah

 

[Drivesaitl]

Drai's numbers are great but is he really a great player away from Connor? Connor is still great without Drai. I don't think many are disputing that Leon has some very nice skills. He's got good vision and passing abilities and can handle/protect the puck well. He's improved his skating and speed and it shows at times but not consistently. He shoots the puck well.

Drai and Connor were putrid defensively for an important mid stretch last year. It was like a repeat of this last month where i swear it felt like all our goals against were them on the ice together. This stretch by Drai isn't a one off. He's been putrid defensively, offensive decision making and forcing things and effort-wise. He simply doesn't want to learn to simplify and concentrate on defence first which is necessary when he's obviously not feeling his mojo now. I saw him STILL yesterday overhandle the puck when a nice simple quicker play with the puck would have really gotten a good flow for the rest of his linemates. He hung on too long and gave away the puck several times when he should have made a simpler play to linemates who were ready and waiting for the cycle down low etc. Makes it hard for his linemates to get their flow going when he's too slow to move the puck.

On the pp it seems Connor is getting the idea that we need to move the puck quicker and move bodies around and not dust it off for a few seconds. Once in a while is fine to hang on to the puck for a few ticks but Leon seems to always do it and often, recently, it kills the momentum of the pp.

I'm not really convinced Drai is killing one of the best PP's in the league when McD or him are involved in the most PP pts and production by a landslide and virtually make our PP. When Drai is in hold mode its because no lanes are open. Gretzky often did the same thing. Would rag the puck for awhile looking to create, and was dynamic doing it. In modern Era Drai is damn good at doing it as well, just that with todays far superior D schemes, far superior goaltending its harder to find openings. But Drai makes wizard passes, often, which no other player on this team makes.

Watch Drai carefully with the puck on PP. Its patended Gretzy halfboard hold. Wait for the flies to come to you, then deliver a lethal pass. Drai works really well in a phonebooth and often gets the pass away even when being teamed by a pk. When that happens the other players on the ice should be able to produce a serious chance. Drai services like this basically every PP.

Now one critique could be that Drai needs to move around more when doing this but sometimes his space he has to work with is very confined. Drai also occupies much more complicated spots on the PP, and arguably more than anybody on it so that Drai is expected to be able to freeform and learn several different spots on the PP and keep production going from those various spots. Drai in the slot for instance is not in my view his strongsuit use on the PP but he's operated reasonably well from there as well. In anycase Drai is a setplay player. In Soccer parlance he's a midfielder. He is that guy. Expecting him to quickly adapt to not being that guy is not easily done.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Ok, I'll remove the word every and replace it with almost every. That said your choices are interesting: Of this group I would have only thought Kassian would have been a reasonable match. Neal and Gagner are poor defensively. Haas maybe but who knows given that Haas ahs never played at this level before. At this stage Sheehan is a 4th line center. Not really someone you would expect to math up in the top 6.

Small sample size admittedly but here you go.

With Leon away from McDavid:

Neal: 58 minutes GF 0 GA 6

Hass: 8 minutes GF 0 GA 2

Gagner: 78 minutes GF 2 GA 7

Sheehan: 9 minutes GF 0 GA 2

Kassian (away from McDavid) 28m minutes GF 3 GA 1




​

Responding to edit of post;

These are very limited sample minutes. Statistically you can't draw from that any reliable conclusions, and you agree. Next, these instances have occurred largely during the clubs struggle phase. For instance Gagner didn't get many of these minutes or any, when the team was doing well early.

Not sure where you get that Sheahan can only be a 4th line Center. He has had 25, 29, 32, and 36pt seasons which probably puts him on the 80% percentile on this club. The guy has hands, and quite clearly, and can show them when given a chance. He's a better option in topsix then the vast majority of our roster. Really from a production view in careers he's not far off what Kassian is and Kass is living the good life on our top line (deservedly) Next, Sheahan is way better than Kass in a breakaway or shootout play. Watch some of those. He's most definitely got some sweet hands.

But Sheahan is certainly showing some game and has done so before. He would not look entirely out of place, in this topsix, given this roster. Better than normal Chiasson imo.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Its kind of disgusting that year 5 of McDavid, and our top 9 wingers are comprised of Neal, Kassian, and... unproven young prospects and never has beens.

Utter joke.

Yep all day. When a pickup Riley Sheahan is one of your most accomplished forwards found anywhere in the lineup and has career topped out at 14 goal and 36 pts, making him really one of the best options to consider in your topsix that hasn't been tried, you know you have an absolute shit roster.

We realistically have 4 topsix forwards in the whole roster and 3 of them are players that have been here the whole time. The only we've really added is Neal. In 5yrs he's the only producer we've added, of any note, that we still have.

Theres a lot of pretends and trying to milk gold out of Chiassons and Kassians every year and getting that, and still struggling.

To have anything resembling adequate scoring on this roster we have to have a half dozen or more forwards on the team having career years every year. This speaks to where the hell is the production going to come from? Its like this every season here because nothing has been built.

In 5years we subtracted Hall and Eberle and Perron and Pouliot and added Neal. This is the just of it. This is how you create a bad club with two superstars on it. Its almost impossible, but Oilers org can deepsix anything, and anybody.

 

[Stoneman89]

Hard to believe Drai is getting absolved of all blame by some people, when the player HIMSELF has just stated that he's been playing like crap for the last while. And I will give him credit for saying the obvious, but hopefully it's more than just words and he really bears down.

 

[Stoneman89]

Yep all day. When a pickup Riley Sheahan is one of your most accomplished forwards found anywhere in the lineup and has career topped out at 14 goal and 36 pts, making him really one of the best options to consider in your topsix that hasn't been tried, you know you have an absolute **** roster.

We realistically have 4 topsix forwards in the whole roster and 3 of them are players that have been here the whole time. The only we've really added is Neal. In 5yrs he's the only producer we've added, of any note, that we still have.

Theres a lot of pretends and trying to milk gold out of Chiassons and Kassians every year and getting that, and still struggling.

To have anything resembling adequate scoring on this roster we have to have a half dozen or more forwards on the team having career years every year. This speaks to where the hell is the production going to come from? Its like this every season here because nothing has been built.

In 5years we subtracted Hall and Eberle and Perron and Pouliot and added Neal. This is the just of it. This is how you create a bad club with two superstars on it. Its almost impossible, but Oilers org can deepsix anything, and anybody.

As shitty as many of the supporting players have been at contributing offensively, imo, the biggest problem with this team right now, is that they are bleeding goals and chances way too much.

 

[Stoneman89]

I'm not really convinced Drai is killing one of the best PP's in the league when McD or him are involved in the most PP pts and production by a landslide and virtually make our PP. When Drai is in hold mode its because no lanes are open. Gretzky often did the same thing. Would rag the puck for awhile looking to create, and was dynamic doing it. In modern Era Drai is damn good at doing it as well, just that with todays far superior D schemes, far superior goaltending its harder to find openings. But Drai makes wizard passes, often, which no other player on this team makes.

Watch Drai carefully with the puck on PP. Its patended Gretzy halfboard hold. Wait for the flies to come to you, then deliver a lethal pass. Drai works really well in a phonebooth and often gets the pass away even when being teamed by a pk. When that happens the other players on the ice should be able to produce a serious chance. Drai services like this basically every PP.

Now one critique could be that Drai needs to move around more when doing this but sometimes his space he has to work with is very confined. Drai also occupies much more complicated spots on the PP, and arguably more than anybody on it so that Drai is expected to be able to freeform and learn several different spots on the PP and keep production going from those various spots. Drai in the slot for instance is not in my view his strongsuit use on the PP but he's operated reasonably well from there as well. In anycase Drai is a setplay player. In Soccer parlance he's a midfielder. He is that guy. Expecting him to quickly adapt to not being that guy is not easily done.

I find that Drai is at his best when he's moving his feet. When he stops and tries to operate in a stationary position, the other team finds it way easier to check him or intercept his passes. On the other hand, McDavid moves all the time, no matter what part of the ice he's on and even when he's designated to one side, so it creates confusion and anxiety with opposing checkers. Drai is going through a rough time this past while, but hopefully he learns from what made him successful earlier and goes back to it. And when players go through a slump, sometimes the best way to get out of it is to dumb their game down and go back to the basics. No crazy fancy passes, just shoot at the net or make the simple play, until the confidence comes back.

 

[Drivesaitl]

As ****ty as many of the supporting players have been at contributing, imo, the biggest problem with this team right now, is that they are bleeding goals and chances way too much.

Mcdrai will stop chasing offense when the team starts to be built out properly. This roster is nothing close to that. We're evaluating McDrai here, unfortunately, in the midst of what without them is easily an NHL worst lineup. That's more the problem. I don't absolve Drai of blame, I refuse to see it that simply, if that makes any sense.

McDrai essentially punched themselves drunk trying to be the difference, make up all the stagger of this deplorable lineup, and held up the ship along time before the piece of crap roster started sinking. They had very little help.

Now we see the results.

I just refuse to blame the two best players on this team. I won't, pretty much as a rule.

Plus, that ultimately its not just star forwards that bleed GA (and almost every one of them does) its that this D and goaltending also bleed copious GA. The deplorable play of the D on this team, or Smith, are most often the most serious GA offenders.

 

[LTIR]

Hard to believe Drai is getting absolved of all blame by some people, when the player HIMSELF has just stated that he's been playing like crap for the last while. And I will give him credit for saying the obvious, but hopefully it's more than just words and he really bears down.

It may seem like that it's by "some" people because of quantity but the number is no more than 2. The 2 could probably be the same poster.
Hopefully for all our sakes Drai takes another step or 2 ahead defensively.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I find that Drai is at his best when he's moving his feet. When he stops and tries to operate in a stationary position, the other team finds it way easier to check him or intercept his passes. On the other hand, McDavid moves all the time, no matter what part of the ice he's on and even when he's designated to one side, so it creates confusion and anxiety with opposing checkers. Drai is going through a rough time this past while, but hopefully he learns from what made him successful earlier and goes back to it. And when players go through a slump, sometimes the best way to get out of it is to dumb their game down and go back to the basics. No crazy fancy passes, just shoot at the net or make the simple play, until the confidence comes back.

Agree with most of this, particularly the movement, but watch how many times teams are scheming pressure on Drai before he hits blueline, or hitting him on the halfwall. Time and space is being removed. Pretty much what one would expect teams to do to an NHL #2 producer. This is what happens.

The board looks at is as "Wow Drai is struggling" and Even Drai is keen on acknowledging. But teams are really scheming him hard and some of the answers have to be reworks or new answers. He's not going to be blowing up the league with production numbers forever. NHL correction occurs, and is occurring. McDrai are being chopped down like trees every game because teams can easily over focus resource on shutting down those two players and pretty much ignore the rest during EV play.

Beat McDrai and you beat the Oilers. EVERY time.

 

[McXLNC97]

"No flaws in his game" I didn't state that. I stated no player is ever perfect, and I fully believe it because human athletes happen to be human. Full of flaws. As we ALL are.

I don't fault find excellence. Again, how hard is that to understand. EVERY superstar in virtually every sport has crap times where they aren't being that good. Drai has him too. Its not like I'm not seeing it, I'm just not interested in kicking him in the nuts when he's down, and acknowledging hes down. He's actually a very nice guy, consummate pro, good as they get, and some people not only want to piss on him, they expect me to do it too.

nah

Nah, you would rather just take the shot at the 21 yr old who just got called up from the minors before he even played his first game of the season with the big club.

 

[LTIR]

Nah, you would rather just take the shot at the 21 yr old who just got called up from the minors before he even played his first game of the season with the big club.

If only he was German!

 

[BlackDogg]

that game....There must be KY in the jelly...

 

[Drivesaitl]

Nah, you would rather just take the shot at the 21 yr old who just got called up from the minors before he even played his first game of the season with the big club.

Yep. The first round pick that is outlier weight and size for the NHL by a significant amount, that has accomplished next to nothing in his callups, and is 21 now. TBH it bugs me that the Oilers just waste even first round picks and the Pulju pick hasn't helped my mood either. If the Oilers had actually picked live bodies that could play maybe we'd have different go to depth now all these years later. You know, how most clubs benefit from their top picks.

Hey, Drai knocked it out of the ballpark for his pick. So did McD. Yama, not so much. Should I not have some expectations out of one of our top round picks? like even sticking with the team?

My own take is that a club would have to be seeing crazy level of skill to be picking a player this tiny with a first round pick. Yama was never knocking it out of the ballpark anywhere. Not enough one would expect to distract from his extremely diminutive size. Thought is was insane pick then, still do.

 

[Senor Catface]

Hard to believe Drai is getting absolved of all blame by some people, when the player HIMSELF has just stated that he's been playing like crap for the last while. And I will give him credit for saying the obvious, but hopefully it's more than just words and he really bears down.

hear hear

 

[Senor Catface]

Yamamoto was drafted exactly where he was slotted.

So everyone please go lecture the world wide scouts, not Edmonton.