Confirmed with Link: Kris Russell for Jyrki Jokipakka, Brett Pollock, Conditional 2nd Round Pick

[Mr Misty]

How are you liking him?

Hasn't been terrible yet

 

[serp]

The team needed another guy that has the the ability and trust of the coaching staff to log 20+ minutes if need be. He's a younger but somewhat worse version of Goose.

 

[LT]

He's doing what he needs to do - PK and block shots (haven't seen the elite shotblocker yet, though). Gives up a better bottom-pairing and more depth, and I still will argue that we really didn't lose anything of significant value.

 

[Mr Misty]

He's doing what he needs to do - PK and block shots (haven't seen the elite shotblocker yet, though). Gives up a better bottom-pairing and more depth, and I still will argue that we really didn't lose anything of significant value.

I'm starting to buy into the Flames fans' claim that he was trapped in his own zone blocking shots because nobody but their top line can possess the puck. We've seen Nemeth stuck in the zone chasing shadows because he can't pass or skate; Russell is a different animal.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Wonder what Flames fans are seeing in Kevin?

 

[OttMorrow]

Wonder what Flames fans are seeing in Kevin?

Probably a young, CHEAP, 6'3 200+ lb defenseman who with good mobility, a guy who uses his size here and there, and who has better than average passing skills.

Jokipakka still has more upside too.

They got a lot bigger, younger, and A LOT cheaper on their lower pairings with Jokipakka...plus they added more assets in Pollock and a 2nd/1st.

GREAT move for the Flames in rebuild mode.

 

[LT]

Probably a young, CHEAP, 6'3 200+ lb defenseman who with good mobility, a guy who uses his size here and there, and who has better than average passing skills.

If this was completely accurate, we wouldn't have traded him, nor would we need to have acquired a defender.

 

[OttMorrow]

If this was completely accurate, we wouldn't have traded him, nor would we need to have acquired a defender.

Where am I inaccurate?


...I guess I did sell Jokipakka short on his shot. He's got a pretty good shot as well.

Jokipakka may not be better than Russell TODAY...but he's what 5 years younger than Russell?

 

[Satan]

Jyrki Jokipakka is a nothing player. No different than Alex Chiasson.

He is a replacement level player. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[OttMorrow]

Jyrki Jokipakka is a nothing player. No different than Alex Chiasson.

He is a replacement level player. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't think he's had nearly enough NHL games to make that determination.

He's got a lot of tools.

 

[Satan]

Remember how we cried about waiving Kevin Connauton?

Same thing. Replaceable. Thanks for serving but we've got better guys coming through the pipeline.

 

[Mr Misty]

Jokipakka is decent, he'd be a good fit on a lot of 3rd pairings. A team that doesn't have the prospects we do would have plenty of incentive to develop a Jokipakka, Nemeth, or Oleksiak.

 

[OttMorrow]

Remember how we cried about waiving Kevin Connauton?

Same thing. Replaceable. Thanks for serving but we've got better guys coming through the pipeline.

I didn't care that much about Connauton actually.

I answered the question of what the Flames saw in Jokipakka...not whether or not he should have been traded. Let's keep our eye on the ball here.

 

[LT]

A guy with a good shot and better than average passing skills has 8 points in 43 games... Hmm... Something seems off there.

He didn't use his size anymore than Oleksiak. Physicality was certainly not a part of his game. And size doesn't mean all that much outside of reach in that case.

Skating was average, maybe slightly above. Nothing special.

His hockey sense is pretty subpar as well.

He's a dime-a-dozen type of player, and he's not much of a loss. If he continues to grow and develop, good for him. I don't see that happening. He doesn't have a mind for the game, and his physical attributes aren't bad, but they're not high-end by any metric.

I don't understand being upset about losing a #6/7 defender at best. He didn't have a future here, no matter how you spin it. Yes, he's a fan favorite, but so was Ott and so was Eriksson. When both players were moved, there was a clear benefit to the team - something that I think is apparent here as well. Yes, it sucked to lose said player because we all liked them personally, but that's the price of success.

 

[Satan]

What do they see? A cost controlled defenseman who you can plug into your lineup on the bottom pairing and be satisfied most nights.


We have two of those guys in Nemeth and Oleksiak.


It's not the Da Vinci Code.

 

[serp]

Jokkipakka is not fit to play 20+ minutes / a top 4 role and may never be. ( neither are Nemeth or Oleksiak for that matter ) . The team needed another veteran badly not another spare that can round out the defefense on the third pair / #6 .

I would feel even less comfortable than i feel currently if we still had all 3 of the scratch trio instead of Russel.

I'm still not sure it was worth the price ( although we didn't give up much anyway ) but the trade improved the team. Russel is a far better skater , puck mover and overall better player than Jokkipakka , Nemeth or Oleksiak. Thats not even a question.

 

[OttMorrow]

A guy with a good shot and better than average passing skills has 8 points in 43 games... Hmm... Something seems off there.

He didn't use his size anymore than Oleksiak. Physicality was certainly not a part of his game. And size doesn't mean all that much outside of reach in that case.

Skating was average, maybe slightly above. Nothing special.

His hockey sense is pretty subpar as well.

He's a dime-a-dozen type of player, and he's not much of a loss. If he continues to grow and develop, good for him. I don't see that happening. He doesn't have a mind for the game, and his physical attributes aren't bad, but they're not high-end by any metric.

I don't understand being upset about losing a #6/7 defender at best. He didn't have a future here, no matter how you spin it. Yes, he's a fan favorite, but so was Ott and so was Eriksson. When both players were moved, there was a clear benefit to the team - something that I think is apparent here as well. Yes, it sucked to lose said player because we all liked them personally, but that's the price of success.

I'm not upset about losing Jokipakka...see original question in the thread about what the Flames saw in Jokipakka.

I agree, he is replacable with our prospect depth, but I also think the Flames see him as having more upside than a #6/#7. If everything comes together for him, I could see him as a 2nd pairing guy.

Remember, Dallas will make just about any defenseman look pretty bad defensively...nonetheless basically a rookie D.

 

[OttMorrow]

Jokkipakka is not fit to play 20+ minutes / a top 4 role and may never be. ( neither are Nemeth or Oleksiak for that matter ) . The team needed another veteran badly not another spare that can round out the defefense on the third pair / #6 .

I would feel even less comfortable than i feel currently if we still had all 3 of the scratch trio instead of Russel.

I'm still not sure it was worth the price ( although we didn't give up much anyway ) but the trade improved the team. Russel is a far better skater , puck mover and overall better player than Jokkipakka , Nemeth or Oleksiak. Thats not even a question.

Did Russell improve the team short-term...potentially VERY short-term? Absolutely.

Was it worth the price? No.

 

[serp]

I'm not upset about losing Jokipakka...see original question in the thread about what the Flames saw in Jokipakka.

I agree, he is replacable with our prospect depth, but I also think the Flames see him as having more upside than a #6/#7. If everything comes together for him, I could see him as a 2nd pairing guy.

Remember, Dallas will make just about any defenseman look pretty bad defensively...nonetheless basically a rookie D.

Well Calgary isn't exactly a defensive juggernaut themselves to put it mildly. Sure a better defensive team can make almost anyone look halfway decent but Calgary isn't that either. They're actually a worse defensive team than us right now.

Was it worth the price? No.

Depends on how much you value the late 2nd/1st and Pollock. Our prospect pool is very well stock so we could afford to slightly overpay for a shortterm improvement easily.

 

[Satan]

What happens when we re-sign Russell and Demers and then cut ties with Goligoski?



Russell - Klingberg
Nemeth - Demers
Oduya - Backman/Oleksiak




Did we overpay? Sure. Was it a massive overpayment? Nope.

 

[OttMorrow]

What happens when we re-sign Russell and Demers and then cut ties with Goligoski?



Russell - Klingberg
Nemeth - Demers
Oduya - Backman/Oleksiak




Did we overpay? Sure. Was it a massive overpayment? Nope.

...Then we get even worse and somehow even smaller on our already diminutive and defensively lacking top-pairing.

As far as the overpayment is concerned:


...remember, we did lose our best Canadian Junior prospect in Pollock, and at the minimum, a 2nd Rounder, in addition to Jokipakka.

That's pretty steep considering that the Bruins got John-Michael Liles for a 3rd, a 5th, and Anthony Camara at the deadline.

3rd pairing Dmen, Mike Weber and Schultz, went for a 3rd Rounder a piece...basically for free.

 

[Satan]

...Then we get even smaller and worse on our top-pairing.

Size.
Doesn't.
Matter.

What's the difference if he's 5'10 or if he's 6'5 if he's an effective player? You don't need to be big to be an effective NHLer in 2016.

If you can skate, move and be hard on the puck, who cares how big you are.


Martin St. Louis was 5'7" and he couldn't get knocked off the puck. Erik Karlsson isn't big. Who cares.

 

[Mr Misty]

What happens when we re-sign Russell and Demers and then cut ties with Goligoski?



Russell - Klingberg
Nemeth - Demers
Oduya - Backman/Oleksiak




Did we overpay? Sure. Was it a massive overpayment? Nope.

Haven't got cap space for 2 out of 3

 

[OttMorrow]

Size.
Doesn't.
Matter.

Come on man...come on.

Forwards... Yeah size doesn't matter AS MUCH, but as a defenseman it does with only VERY few exceptions....

The idea that I have to explain you of all people that we shouldn't get smaller on our 1st pairing is mind-boggling.

 

[Satan]

Haven't got cap space for 2 out of 3

We'll have ~14M of cap. That should be enough.