Dreger: Kreider most likely to be traded after contract talks. 1st Rounder on the table.

[Muffin]

How does one's stock increase that much in half a season of hockey? He was picked 16th, and its not as if he's having a historic season.

He's neck in neck with guys like Turcotte and Zegras. It's not like he's a bad defensive forward either, he kills penalties and plays in all situations. Over point per game as a Freshman that can play a 2 way game, pretty hard to give up someone like that.

 

[AirGut]

How does one's stock increase that much in half a season of hockey? He was picked 16th, and its not as if he's having a historic season.

Trust me, it's over hyping at it's finest. He's a damn good player and will be a good player in the NHL someday but he gets talked about as if he should've been 1st overall. I think it's mostly the Canadian factor which always seems to make even the most mediocre of players advertised as "amazing top 10 talent". Don't buy it from what you hear from others, he's good but after watching him play I'll be honest he's nothing more than your typical B+ level prospect with flashy skill and a good IQ. Nothing THAT special. He could totally be in play especially if Kreider would extend in COL AND they get a goalie like Georgiev who could without a doubt overtake Gru one day. We'll see I suppose but I hate the whole "Take our teams baggage and low tier prospects for this valuable asset." I'm starting to feel sick from all the Bjork/Heinan or Jost/Kaut talk in these threads. Because none of that is happening. Especially Kaut, I know he's got some talent but he's Chytil lite. We don't need him.....

 

[Papa Francouz]

Trust me, it's over hyping at it's finest. He's a damn good player and will be a good player in the NHL someday but he gets talked about as if he should've been 1st overall. I think it's mostly the Canadian factor which always seems to make even the most mediocre of players advertised as "amazing top 10 talent". Don't buy it from what you hear from others, he's good but after watching him play I'll be honest he's nothing more than your typical B+ level prospect with flashy skill and a good IQ. Nothing THAT special. He could totally be in play especially if Kreider would extend in COL AND they get a goalie like Georgiev who could without a doubt overtake Gru one day. We'll see I suppose but I hate the whole "Take our teams baggage and low tier prospects for this valuable asset." I'm starting to feel sick from all the Bjork/Heinan or Jost/Kaut talk in these threads. Because none of that is happening. Especially Kaut, I know he's got some talent but he's Chytil lite. We don't need him.....

Thank you for confirming that you are a terrible evaluator of young talent. Also, a Rangers fan accusing another fanbase of overhyping their prospects...well, pot meet kettle.

 

[AirGut]

Thank you for confirming that you are a terrible evaluator of young talent. Also, a Rangers fan accusing another fanbase of overhyping their prospects...well, pot meet kettle.

You can say that about any team, any fanbase. I'm speaking mostly the truth, he's great but a victim of overhyping. You can deny it all you want but just read through this thread. He isn't John Tavares or Sidney Crosby lads.....

 

[JoemAvs]

You can say that about any team, any fanbase. I'm speaking mostly the truth, he's great but a victim of overhyping. You can deny it all you want but just read through this thread. He isn't John Tavares or Sidney Crosby lads.....

I don't think anyone is saying that he is that good. But he is the best shot the Avs have at replacing Kadri 3 years down the road as a #2 C.

IMO the problem you have is that you are out to lunch in regards to expectations for rental players.
I believe that a rental can fetch a top20-25 prospect in the league (which if we are talking only players not in the NHL Newhook probably is) when I see it after Karlsson, Duchene and Hall couldn't. If Kreider does, odds are the GM trading for him really, really screwed up crazy market or not.

The 1st should and probably will be the most valuable asset in any Kreider deal. If not something has gone horribly wrong for a GM.

 

[Papa Francouz]

You can say that about any team, any fanbase. I'm speaking mostly the truth, he's great but a victim of overhyping. You can deny it all you want but just read through this thread. He isn't John Tavares or Sidney Crosby lads.....

No one has compared him to either of those two players. What he is is a great skating, over PPG freshman center with two-way capabilities and a balanced offensive toolkit. He’s also the result of a former 1st round pick from the pick Sakic refused to trade for Kreider this summer.

And lest you forget, this is a rental Chris Kreider we’re talking about here, not one with any term. He will not bring back a top tier prospect like Newhook from the Avs. Maybe you can get that from Boston.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Can we please stop requesting Newhook/Byram/Studnicka for Kreider? It’s never going to happen. I’ll gladly eat crow if I am wrong but unless Kreider came fully extended and there was more to the deal, a prospect of that caliber will not be involved.

 

[AirGut]

I don't think anyone is saying that he is that good. But he is the best shot the Avs have at replacing Kadri 3 years down the road they have as a #2 C.

IMO the problem you have is that you are out to lunch in regards to expectations for rental players.
I believe that a rental can fetch a top20-25 prospect in the league (which if we are talking only players not in the NHL Newhook probably is) when I see it after Karlsson, Duchene and Hall couldn't. If Kreider does, odds are the GM trading for him really, really screwed up crazy market or not.

Well see here's the thing I have this odd tingle in my loins that Kreider is gonna be traded to a team with an extension, I don't know why I have this feeling, I just do. And I also feel like it won't just be Kreider going back I think Gorton will try and package him with Georgiev most likely or someone else to maximize asset return. And team's will consider it especially with other teams stocking up. In conclusion a team will overpay like a team does every year at the deadline.

 

[JoemAvs]

Well see here's the thing I have this odd tingle in my loins that Kreider is gonna be traded to a team with an extension, I don't know why I have this feeling, I just do. And I also feel like it won't just be Kreider going back I think Gorton will try and package him with Georgiev most likely or someone else to maximize asset return. And team's will consider it especially with other teams stocking up. In conclusion a team will overpay like a team does every year at the deadline.

You share that tingle with all the Devils fans back when they wanted Byram in a SnT or all the Sens fans with Karlsson.
Its called wishful thinking. Kreider gets to pick his own destination July 1st. No reason for him to give up on that. Especially when the marketplace looks so dire right now which means he is in for a giant payday.

Also the Avs won't place that much extra value on Georgiev. They have their starter in Grubauer and a very good backup in Francouz. Highly doubt that his inclusion will make them willing to throw in one of the guys that were off limits only 2 months ago for a significantly better player in Hall...

 

[CupsOverCash]

Lets go Avs. Outbid the Bs!!

 

[remer]

Bruins likely will let it sit until the final hour on trade deadline. Usually what happens is that the market starts to dry up, teams go in other directions and the buyer gets the best deal. Sweeney will wait it out and make the best possible deal. In the case of teams with UFA’s a bit of a game of chicken.
I think if Sweeney can get Kreider for a reasonable deal he will, if not he will try to get Palmieri.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Probably because one of the biggest knock on him was playing in a much inferior league and nobody knew how he would translate to a bigger league. Given that after a slower start where he was forced to play on the wing of a guy who isn't a center for some reason (Boldy), he has exploded and put up something like 31 points in 23 games and answered most questionmarks about his game that people had at the draft, his stock certainly has gone up by quite a bit. Certainly enough that including him for a Kreider level player shouldn't even be an option. Especially given that Chris is a rental and that according to rumors Sakic didn't want to trade Newhook for Kreider straight up when Chris had almost an extra year left at the draft.

Newhook was mentioned as a potential top3 pick alongside Hughes 1-1.5 years before the draft. The talent has always been there. Who knows how good he will be on the NHL level but teams don't trade prospects like that unless they are desperate or stupid or trade for a young star player that for some weird reason has become available.

Given that Sakic shouldn't be desperate at all even with these injuries, that he probably shouldn't be considered stupid due to his recent record and that Kreider (or anyone else rumored to be available) is nowhere near the caliber of player necessary, I would be shocked to see Sakic trade him.

He didn't want to give up one of his higher end prospects for Taylor Hall. I would be shocked if he now turns around and does it for freaking Kreider...

He's neck in neck with guys like Turcotte and Zegras. It's not like he's a bad defensive forward either, he kills penalties and plays in all situations. Over point per game as a Freshman that can play a 2 way game, pretty hard to give up someone like that.

I just don't believe that at the top of the first round things change that quickly. I don't think for example Edmonton is deciding that they'd have preferred Newhook to Broberg just because Newhook is having a comparatively good season and Broberg isn't. I think when teams invest a high pick in a player, they had done a lot of research and put faith in that player repaying it. I don't think actual re-draft value around the NHL works in a way where everyone starts at zero once the draft is conducted. There's built-up equity, and unfortunately for Newhook, his prior to this year was the exact middle of round 1. I don't think he all of a sudden is up there with the big prospects just because you can't say any of them are having a demonstrably better year.

And I'm sure the same thing would work with even two prospects who Avalance fans feel allegiance towards. I don't think you'd say Newhook is all of a sudden on par with Byram because Byram isn't having a great season and Newhook is. Some start higher than others at certain points. Newhook is good, but he's a mid-first having a good season. I don't think he's anywhere near as valuable on the trade market as Avalance fans are touting him as. I'm not suggesting that Sakic will trade him, but I also think he's not a valuable enough asset that he'd be off limits in a trade at this time of year.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Trust me, it's over hyping at it's finest. He's a damn good player and will be a good player in the NHL someday but he gets talked about as if he should've been 1st overall. I think it's mostly the Canadian factor which always seems to make even the most mediocre of players advertised as "amazing top 10 talent". Don't buy it from what you hear from others, he's good but after watching him play I'll be honest he's nothing more than your typical B+ level prospect with flashy skill and a good IQ. Nothing THAT special. He could totally be in play especially if Kreider would extend in COL AND they get a goalie like Georgiev who could without a doubt overtake Gru one day. We'll see I suppose but I hate the whole "Take our teams baggage and low tier prospects for this valuable asset." I'm starting to feel sick from all the Bjork/Heinan or Jost/Kaut talk in these threads. Because none of that is happening. Especially Kaut, I know he's got some talent but he's Chytil lite. We don't need him.....

I was like that years ago, but I've started to understand the way this league works a lot better now. There's no reason to hoard every good asset you have. Almost every Stanley Cup contender wins because of their core players. It's not because of the 2nd line LW or the 4th defenseman. Thats why I think if you believe you can win the Cup, and can make your team significantly better, you don't worry about trading the generic first round pick. And thats exactly what Newhook is. Picked right in the middle of the first round. He's having a good year, but nothing historic.

If the Rangers were in a position where I think we can contend, I'd have no issue offering up Miller, Kravtsov, Andersson, Howden, and a whole number of younger players or prospects who were first rounders or have high pedigrees. I would only keep off limits the current core roster players, and any prospects who you think will be core roster players. I can understand making Byram off limits, but I don't understand how players such as Studnicka, Kyrou or Newhook are all of a sudden off limits. It's highly unlikely any of those players in four years will be any more than the 8th or 9th best player on their own team. Is a player who only has that level of potential so valuable to be off limits in a trade for the best rental on the market?

And I'm not suggesting fans of any team have to want to trade certain players for Kreider. If they don't think they are Cup contenders and they need a first line caliber winger to be added to their team, thats all there is to this discussion. But fans are too apt to want their team to hoard prospects. The best assets on a team are very valuable and most of the rest aren't as valuable as fans think. I still remember back to when the Rangers received a 1st round pick, a second round pick, a prior first round pick Brett Howden and a prior second round pick Libor Hajek for our best player at the time, McDonagh. A few years later, Howden and Hajek don't look any better than lower half of the league players at their peak, and it's not as if Lundkvist and Henriksson are projecting as McDonagh level players in their prime either, although I do think Lundkvist will be a good NHL'er.

With the Rangers, I think my current no-trade list of players I wouldn't trade barring an overpayment is about five players, and that could be bargained down to four. My list right now is Panarin, Zibanejad, Shestyorkin, Kakko and Fox. Any other player I think I'd trade for an even value or slightly better deal that made sense the team even just slightly better.

 

[JoemAvs]

I was like that years ago, but I've started to understand the way this league works a lot better now. There's no reason to hoard every good asset you have. Almost every Stanley Cup contender wins because of their core players. It's not because of the 2nd line LW or the 4th defenseman. Thats why I think if you believe you can win the Cup, and can make your team significantly better, you don't worry about trading the generic first round pick. And thats exactly what Newhook is. Picked right in the middle of the first round. He's having a good year, but nothing historic.

If the Rangers were in a position where I think we can contend, I'd have no issue offering up Miller, Kravtsov, Andersson, Howden, and a whole number of younger players or prospects who were first rounders or have high pedigrees. I would only keep off limits the current core roster players, and any prospects who you think will be core roster players. I can understand making Byram off limits, but I don't understand how players such as Studnicka, Kyrou or Newhook are all of a sudden off limits. It's highly unlikely any of those players in four years will be any more than the 8th or 9th best player on their own team. Is a player who only has that level of potential so valuable to be off limits in a trade for the best rental on the market?

And I'm not suggesting fans of any team have to want to trade certain players for Kreider. If they don't think they are Cup contenders and they need a first line caliber winger to be added to their team, thats all there is to this discussion. But fans are too apt to want their team to hoard prospects. The best assets on a team are very valuable and most of the rest aren't as valuable as fans think. I still remember back to when the Rangers received a 1st round pick, a second round pick, a prior first round pick Brett Howden and a prior second round pick Libor Hajek for our best player at the time, McDonagh. A few years later, Howden and Hajek don't look any better than lower half of the league players at their peak, and it's not as if Lundkvist and Henriksson are projecting as McDonagh level players in their prime either, although I do think Lundkvist will be a good NHL'er.

With the Rangers, I think my current no-trade list of players I wouldn't trade barring an overpayment is about five players, and that could be bargained down to four. My list right now is Panarin, Zibanejad, Shestyorkin, Kakko and Fox. Any other player I think I'd trade for an even value or slightly better deal that made sense the team even just slightly better.

I mean you answered your own question. Avs, Bruins and Blues fans believe these prospects can very well be part of their core down the line and have no interest in surrendering them. Especially for a few months of a rental player. And rightfully so because IMO that is insane given how this league works. Your odds to win the cup in any given year are not great. Overpaying for a rental to increase your chances by 0.5% maybe at best is not a great idea considering how much of a hole it leaves in your organisation afterwards.

Avs have a ton of very good and quality prospects in Kaut, Bowers, Zhuravlyov, etc as well as a few roster players with some pedigree in Jost, Zadorov or Kamenev and a 1st rounder to toss around if they really want to. It makes no sense to trade a guy like Newhook for a guy like Kreider IMO at all.
Kreider isn't so much better than what you could get for a combination of those pieces I listed that it would make trading one of your high end prospects worth it.

I'd easily trade Newhook as the centerpiece of a package for a guy that could be part of our core longterm like ROR back with the Sabres or RyJo with the Jackets or Duchene with the Avs. (young, quality player with term). I certainly would never trade him for a non-core piece like Kreider or Tatar.

 

[Mantis]

To Boston

Kreider

To NYR

Boston 2020 1st
Boston 2021 3rd
Danton Heinen
Urho Vaakanainen

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I mean you answered your own question. Avs, Bruins and Blues fans believe these prospects can very well be part of their core down the line and have no interest in surrendering them. Especially for a few months of a rental player. And rightfully so because IMO that is insane given how this league works. Your odds to win the cup in any given year are not great. Overpaying for a rental to increase your chances by 0.5% maybe at best is not a great idea considering how much of a hole it leaves in your organisation afterwards.

Avs have a ton of very good and quality prospects in Kaut, Bowers, Zhuravlyov, etc as well as a few roster players with some pedigree in Jost, Zadorov or Kamenev and a 1st rounder to toss around if they really want to. It makes no sense to trade a guy like Newhook for a guy like Kreider IMO at all.
Kreider isn't so much better than what you could get for a combination of those pieces I listed that it would make trading one of your high end prospects worth it.

I'd easily trade Newhook as the centerpiece of a package for a guy that could be part of our core longterm like ROR back with the Sabres or RyJo with the Jackets or Duchene with the Avs. (young, quality player with term). I certainly would never trade him for a non-core piece like Kreider or Tatar.

We must have very different definitions of core. As I said, the 8th or 9th best player is not part of the core.

Newhook will not be better in a few years than MacKinnon, Rantanen, Makar, Landeskog, Byram, and maybe one or two others. Thats not a core player.

Studnicka will not be better in a few years than Marchand, Bergeron, Pastrnak, McAvoy, Rask, and maybe one or two others. Thats not a core player.

 

[JoemAvs]

We must have very different definitions of core. As I said, the 8th or 9th best player is not part of the core.

Newhook will not be better in a few years than MacKinnon, Rantanen, Makar, Landeskog, Byram, and maybe one or two others. Thats not a core player.

Studnicka will not be better in a few years than Marchand, Bergeron, Pastrnak, McAvoy, Rask, and maybe one or two others. Thats not a core player.

I don't expect Landeskog to age all that well and I don't see them compensating Kadris for years of being underpaid either with Mac freshly breaking the bank once his contract is up in 2.5 years. So that leaves a giant hole at #2 C and a spot as the 3rd best forward open which IMO certainly is core territory. Odds are that the Avs till then won't be able to find anyone else that has a higher chance of filling that spot than Newhook in the draft or in free agency (they will be in cap trouble by then I would assume).

And you again are making my point. Kreider would be at best our 3rd most important winger. Arguably 4th if Bura can get on one of his hotstreaks in the playoffs hopefully. So why would you break the bank for your potentially 4th or 5th most important forward that is a rental to boot?

Why not go for a cheaper option and keep the powder dry for a trade for a core player down the line if the young guns don't cut it or the cap forces you to shake things up?


Also Bruins have nothing to replace Bergy/Krejci once these guys age out if they trade Studnicka.

These guys might go if we are talking getting a core player in return. But Kreider isn't that. Especially considering that he is only a rental. Thats why trading these pieces for him makes no sense to me.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

As a Rangers fan I really hope the Avs come in with the winning bid. Better prospect pool to pick from.

 

[Shootertooter]

To Boston

Kreider

To NYR

Boston 2020 1st
Boston 2021 3rd
Danton Heinen
Urho Vaakanainen

This might be fair value but the issue is Vaakanainen is a defenseman, and although a highly touted prospect, he really doesn't fit the Rangers needs as well as a C in Beecher/Studnicka would. The 1st will be one of the latest in the rd likely. Someone said in an earlier post that 1st should be the best part of the deal and I hugely disagree. In this case, for the player that is the best available forward at the TDL, the 30th or 31st pick seems rather inconsequential. I'd rather not even have it in there instead opting for a better prospect or an additional one.

In my opinion, Boston's window is closing soon with this current group, if Sweeney thinks they are close, he trades one of those players the fans don't want to move. I think CK would re sign with Boston.

 

[Papa Francouz]

As a Rangers fan I really hope the Avs come in with the winning bid. Better prospect pool to pick from.

Can we offer you one Matthew Stienburg?

 

[Mantis]

This might be fair value but the issue is Vaakanainen is a defenseman, and although a highly touted prospect, he really doesn't fit the Rangers needs as well as a C in Beecher/Studnicka would. The 1st will be one of the latest in the rd likely. Someone said in an earlier post that 1st should be the best part of the deal and I hugely disagree. In this case, for the player that is the best available forward at the TDL, the 30th or 31st pick seems rather inconsequential. I'd rather not even have it in there instead opting for a better prospect or an additional one.

In my opinion, Boston's window is closing soon with this current group, if Sweeney thinks they are close, he trades one of those players the fans don't want to move. I think CK would re sign with Boston.

I would gladly swap Beecher in for Vak. I don’t think Beecher will amount to much.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Can we offer you one Matthew Stienburg?

6 points in 23 ECAC games? Why would you trade such a blue chip?

 

[OVO16]

Bruins likely will let it sit until the final hour on trade deadline. Usually what happens is that the market starts to dry up, teams go in other directions and the buyer gets the best deal. Sweeney will wait it out and make the best possible deal. In the case of teams with UFA’s a bit of a game of chicken.
I think if Sweeney can get Kreider for a reasonable deal he will, if not he will try to get Palmieri.

Boston is gonna get regret sitting on their ass and not responding to the Tampa move. And to a certain degree, Washington too.

Boston is softest out of the 3 teams.

 

[Papa Francouz]

6 points in 23 ECAC games? Why would you trade such a blue chip?

Mainly to spread the wealth around the league. We don't want to hoard all of the good prospects in our pool.

 

[itsPLkielbasa]

Whatever happens, we'll lose a great player in Kreider. We most likely won't even get a sniff at signing him in the offseason.

Not sure if Boston would but maybe Studnicka and a 2nd for Kreider and a 3rd?

I'm not getting my hopes up of getting some crazy offer so trying to be kind of fair I guess?

I still don't want any part of Jost from the Avs.

Let's just wait and see if JG has magic up his sleeves.