GDT: Kraken expansion draft (5 PM PST, ESPN2)

[Irie]

Just read through Vegas' expansion thread from four years ago, and here are some quotes for all of you folks feeling like the end of the world is near after watching the draft unfold....

"Man that's ugly. Most thought they were going to start with a pretty solid blue line. Not so much.... "

"need these trades cause it really feels like they're going for a fair number of suboptimal guys. "

(in response to the picks being leaked) "I'd like to take a leak on some of these choices... woof."

"Bummer. "

"Kind of disappointed... Knights had a chance with the weak Pacific to be really competitive and reach playoffs this season but these choices kind of kill that."

"Quote"does this team even reach the cap floor? "- "The better question is how many wins can that team even get? "

"Ugh. "

"Same for me. I'm disappointed. "

(On tanking) "I think this is the right play if the end goal is to win the Cup as soon as possible. You need elite players to be a Cup contender. Pretty much all Cup winners draft their elite players. You may get lucky a time or two with a guy in Round 2-7, but most elite players get drafted top 5/10. "

"They'll be a bottom half of the league team for sure, but maybe more towards the middle of the pack than the bottom. A lot of it will come down to how these guys gel in the locker room, how well Turk runs them, and to what extent they get return from the prospects they bring in from trade. "

"Wooooooof."

Any of it sound familiar?

 

[brewski420]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Kings in on both Eberle and Dunn…

I would find it odd that Eberle would be part of a trade previously agreed to while being brought in to be introduced to the Seattle ED fans.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

I would find it odd that Eberle would be part of a trade previously agreed to while being brought in to be introduced to the Seattle ED extravaganza.

I somehow feel like tons of Eberle jerseys were sold (at least pre-ordered already). That would be unnecessarily pissing off fans to trade him out now unless the return is something completely ridiculously good.

 

[Irie]

I would find it odd that Eberle would be part of a trade previously agreed to while being brought in to be introduced to the Seattle ED fans.

I will be seriously shocked if Eberle and Pitlick weren't part of deals that will be announced tomorrow.

 

[generalshepherd141]

I feel like Calgary went into rebuild mode late last season and expect them to move more core pieces and tank if Sutter's pride allows them to lose, especially now that Seattle swiped their captain.

It's very possible you're right, but I just don't see Calgary rebuilding after bringing Sutter back. They went through a rough patch with him last season, but sometimes all it takes is an offseason for the team to regroup and get in sync with the coach.

Plus, I'm very skeptical of Giordano. His last 2 years have been pretty brutal, and it should only get worse going forward. Calgary will miss his leadership, but not his recent play.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

It's very possible you're right, but I just don't see Calgary rebuilding after bringing Sutter back. They went through a rough patch with him last season, but sometimes all it takes is an offseason for the team to regroup and get in sync with the coach.

Plus, I'm very skeptical of Giordano. His last 2 years have been pretty brutal, and it should only get worse going forward. Calgary will miss his leadership, but not his recent play.

yikes there’s goes Nate Schmidt then.

 

[Irie]

It's very possible you're right, but I just don't see Calgary rebuilding after bringing Sutter back. They went through a rough patch with him last season, but sometimes all it takes is an offseason for the team to regroup and get in sync with the coach.

Plus, I'm very skeptical of Giordano. His last 2 years have been pretty brutal, and it should only get worse going forward. Calgary will miss his leadership, but not his recent play.

Aren't they rumored to be shopping Tkachuk? And I doubt Gaudreau resigns with them and he is UFA at the end of the season, so I expect he gets moved as well.

 

[Interior Cascadian]

I will be seriously shocked if Eberle and Pitlick weren't part of deals that will be announced tomorrow.

So surely there were side deals made. They’ll be announced after the trade freeze is lifted tomorrow then?

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Seattle is going to end up overpaying UFA which is the absolute worst thing you can do.

Depends. If you pay a guy that should make $7M AAV $10M, I'd say that's a pretty good deal compared to a guy who should make $2M AAV getting $5M.

 

[generalshepherd141]

Aren't they rumored to be shopping Tkachuk? And I doubt Gaudreau resigns with them and he is UFA at the end of the season, so I expect he gets moved as well.

Gaudreau will be moved if they start the season off slow, so that's a possibility.

I don't think Tkachuk gets moved though. Apparently the asking price is crazy, and he's a unique talent who can play very physically and also score a lot.

 

[kings11]

I would find it odd that Eberle would be part of a trade previously agreed to while being brought in to be introduced to the Seattle ED fans.

Not agreed upon, just the Kings being interested and likely not agreeing with what the Isles initially asked for

 

[brewski420]

Not agreed upon, just the Kings being interested and likely not agreeing with what the Isles initially asked for

I don't think Seattle will flip him to LA in an agreed upon deal worked out before the draft was my point. Would not look good after introducing him to Seattle fans.

 

[QuizGuy66]

No way they are flipping any of the guys they had on stage tonight - I mean that would pretty sick to fly a guy across the country and go "see ya"

Now as for the best players that weren't present? Those are the guys much more likely to be going elsewhere.

Anyway good luck - you're gonna enjoy Bastian

 

[Irie]

I would find it odd that Eberle would be part of a trade previously agreed to while being brought in to be introduced to the Seattle ED fans.

Yeah, that does put a bit of a damper on my theory....

unless the NHL was behind the move with ESPN and they are not privy to Francis' plans.

And apparently based on the quality of the draft special, that may be likely

 

[PG Canuck]

I will be seriously shocked if Eberle and Pitlick weren't part of deals that will be announced tomorrow.

Not a good way to start a franchise - bringing Eberle to Seattle to be a part of the festivities, then deal him a few days later.

Now that’s some good player relations.

The players who were in Seattle today, are obviously a part of the future moving forward.

 

[Irie]

Not a good way to start a franchise - bringing Eberle to Seattle to be a part of the festivities, then deal him a few days later.

Now that’s some good player relations.

The players who were in Seattle today, are obviously a part of the future moving forward.

To be fair, I was not aware they had brought him in when I posted my original post, as I didn't watch the special, and you can read my reply two posts up where i addressed that, but......

Just think of the comedic gold that situation would create in memes alone!

 

[Ms Maggie]

Pens fan here. Tanev is a treat. Enjoy him.

 

[DanoCanuck]

Also, Ron Francis shouldn't be part of any announcement ever again. Talk about sucking the energy out of the party.
Didnt even seem like he wanted to be there. I get he's In charge, but selling tickets means you can spend to the cap every year. Should have had celebs announce the 6 team members that were there, and then had those 6 make some announcements with the celebs so people get to know the players (casual fan doesnt wanna know about the old man w the plan) Have fun, it should be a party. Get people excited. He was supposed to be there to give incite but didn't give any - was even afraid to say he didn't take price cuz he's old and expensive.

Francis cam across like a palooka instead of a GM. Guaranteed not to be popular on the rubber chicken circuit. Gets a zero for being the energizing personality. He even looked shabby.

 

[Bounces R Way]

It's very possible you're right, but I just don't see Calgary rebuilding after bringing Sutter back. They went through a rough patch with him last season, but sometimes all it takes is an offseason for the team to regroup and get in sync with the coach.

I'm very happy to finally not have a coaching black cloud hanging over the team anymore. Been a biiiiit of a sore spot in recent years.

Plus, I'm very skeptical of Giordano. His last 2 years have been pretty brutal, and it should only get worse going forward. Calgary will miss his leadership, but not his recent play.

Giordano looked a little old last year. Actually to tell you the truth he looked very old for a while but he was much better under Sutter. Consistently the fittest Flame coming into train camp.

Not a ton of players over earn their contracts but I think Gio was unquestionably one. Very high standard of play through his time with the Flames. 51 games away from 1000 with the club and it hurts to see him go but was probably the right call. Guy didn't win a Norris by accident at 36, he's really a tremendous 2 way defenseman.

 

[RealGudbranson]

Just read through Vegas' expansion thread from four years ago, and here are some quotes for all of you folks feeling like the end of the world is near after watching the draft unfold....

"Man that's ugly. Most thought they were going to start with a pretty solid blue line. Not so much.... "

"need these trades cause it really feels like they're going for a fair number of suboptimal guys. "

(in response to the picks being leaked) "I'd like to take a leak on some of these choices... woof."

"Bummer. "

"Kind of disappointed... Knights had a chance with the weak Pacific to be really competitive and reach playoffs this season but these choices kind of kill that."

"Quote"does this team even reach the cap floor? "- "The better question is how many wins can that team even get? "

"Ugh. "

"Same for me. I'm disappointed. "

(On tanking) "I think this is the right play if the end goal is to win the Cup as soon as possible. You need elite players to be a Cup contender. Pretty much all Cup winners draft their elite players. You may get lucky a time or two with a guy in Round 2-7, but most elite players get drafted top 5/10. "

"They'll be a bottom half of the league team for sure, but maybe more towards the middle of the pack than the bottom. A lot of it will come down to how these guys gel in the locker room, how well Turk runs them, and to what extent they get return from the prospects they bring in from trade. "

"Wooooooof."

Any of it sound familiar?

The glaring difference between the two so far is the draft capital Vegas mines in initial side deals, with which turned into Maxpac and Stone. Seattle failed to do that. Perhaps it was due to other GMs preparation, but I’m inclined to think like Lebrun: Francis overplayed his hand. Other strategies may arise or were available. It’s bonkers they took a UFA defenseman instead of say, Domi, who is on a one year deal and can be flipped at the deadline.

I will reserve judgment until training camp ends. Hakstol, and an apparent lack of execution here, have to raise at least some concern.

 

[Irie]

Francis cam across like a palooka instead of a GM. Guaranteed not to be popular on the rubber chicken circuit. Gets a zero for being the energizing personality. He even looked shabby.

He probably has gotten next to zero sleep for 3 days, if what McPhee said about his experience during the draft is to be believed.

 

[Cogburn]

Guessing here but for Voracek it was the contract and his age. For Tarasenko the injury concerns. Our pick from Philly was the one that surprised me the most. They had decent options and went with a no-name. I was fairly confident the pick from Philly was going to be JVR. Consistent performer with only 2 years left. Cheaper than both Voracek and Tarasenko.

But with how much Francis has emphasized and talked about the importance of cap space, you have to think he has a plan in place.

Voracek isn't a rookie anymore, granted, but he has been a very consistent on some very inconsistent teams. Would Hakstol have had something to say maybe? Given the other names that could have been taken, I agree that that was a strange way for everything to go.

Dunn from St Louis isn't a bad pick, but I'd have thought the risk on Tarasenko would have been worth it. Maybe they saw something we don't see about that injury though, you're right there.

Cap space is only valuable if you make use of it, one way or another though. I have no doubt there is a plan, I just don't see it based solely on todays news. I'm hooked though, let's see what this plan is.

 

[Irie]

The glaring difference between the two so far is the draft capital Vegas mines in initial side deals, with which turned into Maxpac and Stone. Seattle failed to do that. Perhaps it was due to other GMs preparation, but I’m inclined to think like Lebrun: Francis overplayed his hand. Other strategies may arise or were available. It’s bonkers they took a UFA defenseman instead of say, Domi, who is on a one year deal and can be flipped at the deadline.

I will reserve judgment until training camp ends. Hakstol, and an apparent lack of execution here, have to raise at least some concern.

First - the flaw in everyone's logic is the fact people are trying to compare Seattle to Vegas. Vegas was gifted an entire young top line and two young top pairing defensemen - the hardest pieces to find for an expansion team. We all knew Seattle would not have that type of luck.

Second - teams were more prepared. You saw all the moves GMs were willing to make to shuffle parts around to cut losses. GMs deliberately designed some contracts to expire this offseason because of expansion. It limited what they had to protect.

Looking at the deals that happened, are there any where enough was moved that would justify solid return picks for Seattle? Most teams were willing to lose over-priced but productive aging vets through expansion if they could get more cap - there is a reason for that.

Third - Today is not 2017. The flat cap is here to stay for a while. CBA states the cap can't rise unless the escrow is paid. New TV deal will bring in an extra couple hundred million. League is short a couple of billion right now. This problem is not going away soon.

Cap is worth a lot more than late round picks and the value of it is only going to increase next season, and possibly longer. Especially as some of these buyouts start to hit and further limit available space. It is a different league that requires a different strategy. So far their picks have been smart. They identified the environment and are setting themselves up to take full advantage.

 

[MindRiot]

The glaring difference between the two so far is the draft capital Vegas mines in initial side deals, with which turned into Maxpac and Stone. Seattle failed to do that. Perhaps it was due to other GMs preparation, but I’m inclined to think like Lebrun: Francis overplayed his hand. Other strategies may arise or were available. It’s bonkers they took a UFA defenseman instead of say, Domi, who is on a one year deal and can be flipped at the deadline.

I will reserve judgment until training camp ends. Hakstol, and an apparent lack of execution here, have to raise at least some concern.

His strategy has yet to play out though. I'll wait till October before I claim Francis overplayed his hand or chose the wrong strategy. The very different set of circumstances need to be taken into account if we're going to compare what this expansion draft yielded to 2017's. I believe how teams choose to shape their rosters this offseason will have a bigger effect on Seattle than the 2017 offseason had on Vegas. The door is still open to deals for futures because Francis with his expansion picks left himself plenty of flexibility.

 

[MindRiot]

If you're going to take the Voraceks and Domis, you better be damn sure you really want them and not just take them because they're better than the minor league alternatives.

Say a player you really want becomes available during the season. He's got a pretty big contract. You've already enabled Philly and Columbus to better compete with you for that player because they now have the cap space and you no longer do.

You absolutely keep that cap space until you come across a player you feel you can not pass up on.