Post-Game Talk: Kraken def. Canucks - 5-3 (Rathbone, Boeser, Hoglander)

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I still think the Kraken team will get physically overmatched this season....They have skilled players, but they're not like Vegas either...If they have to spend an extended time in their own zone this season, thats a big problem.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

It all depends on what style the team plays. If they play a way that is free flowing and focused on attack. It can work.

Look at the Florida Panthers defense. After Ekblad went down, they were playing Yandle, Forsling, Montour, Stralman(this is the old stralman), Gudas, Weegar. None of them I would say are very good defensively. Nutivaara they added who is solid.

Its not like the canucks were good defensively in the last few years. We were bot 5 all these years. Only really good defender we had was Tanev, and we let him go.

Well last year when Canucks played a game against Toronto or Montreal before covid not sure which team it was I remember it was a run and gun type of game, it was exciting to watch, but it was Greens comments after that was alarming. He basically said that's not the style this team should be playing and saying their not built to be playing a run and gun type of game, they're built to play a 1 goal or 2 goal type of game and be tighter defensively, the amount of games this team has been outshot in under Green shows he prefers them to play more defensively then offensively and his comments regarding it last year summed that up. And this is why I don't like Green he wants to rely to heavily on hoping the other teams makes mistakes and have his goalie peppered all the time for that to happen. As long as Green is here you won't be seeing a free flowing style of game unfortunately, this is exactly why they needed a new coach to allow that type of play, but it won't happen under Green, enjoy Demko trying to bail this team out just like Markstrom used to do, and god forbid if Demko gets hurt might as well write the season off if that happens.

 

[IslandBeast]

Hockey systems really aren't that complicated it's not like football or basketball, defensively there is only so much you can do. The wingers need to cover the D, the D and centers get below the dots, weak side wingers drop down and cover in front of the net when needed. Defensively you need to outnumber the opponent the best you can in most situations, a lot of it relies on the players awareness.

like what are people actually asking green to do, specifically? Play less defense and more offense? Well duh

If you have good players they will execute whatever system you put forth, it's not rocket science

How can you demand a better breakout from Green but at the same time you have one single good offensive d-man and he's a rookie. You have shutdown guys with the likes of Edler, Myers, Fantenberg, Jordie Benn, Hamonic etc feeding the puck up to wingers like Eriksson, Roussel, Virtanen, Highmore, Boyd, Hawrlyuk etc who then have to quickly make good plays to their supporting centreman like Sutter, Beagle and Tyler Motte etc who then are supposed to do what with it?

The coaches suck because the team has sucked because Benning has sucked.

 

[bossram]

Oh I agree. Remember Mike Weaver? We didn't think much of him when the Canucks let him go.

I actually kinda liked Weaver. His historical defensive impacts were pretty strong until his final NHL season.

 

[VanJack]

Looks like the Canucks are in mid season form already up 2-0, and then lose 5-3 typical Canucks game under Green.

I guess we'll find out after the first 20 games or so, but I'm just not convinced the Canucks will ever play very good team defense with Green behind the bench. They'll hang their goaltender out to dry on a lot of nights, and try to outscore their defensive deficiencies.

It can be as entertaining as hell on a lot of nights, but you won't ever win anything in the post season, playing the way they do in their own zone.

I think it starts with a lack of accountability. Players, particularly the veterans, get a long leash to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Canucks have consistently been in 20-31 range in terms of team defense for most of Green's run here. Not coincidentally, this is the same territory as most of the league's lottery teams.

I hope I'm wrong this season, because the Canucks have brought in some bigger bodies and look to have upgraded their bottom six. But I remain skeptical until proven otherwise.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Love those Kraken jerseys. But I gotta tell you, I'm really looking forward to hating them! I have wanted a proper rivalry for the Canucks for so long now.

Did you ever see that issue of Real Stuff by Denny Eichhorn that had a story illustrated by Colin Upton about drunken (original) Whitecaps hooligans in Seattle for a game stirring up sh*t in a bar? You mean a rivalry like that? We can hopefully look forward to busloads of drunken Canucks fans invading Seattle and trying to start fights with Americans largely indifferent to it all.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Thats not who was playing last night, you could count the Canuck legit NHL players on one hand...You obviously didn't watch..?

Just keep protecting Green some more over there looks good

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

But, Brad Shaw!

Shaw is apparently running the PP, Baumer is still running the D.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Just keep protecting Green some more over there looks good

Then why dont you just shit on Green then, (obviously , your intention) and quit pretending you actually watched the game last night.

 

[Vector]

Oh I agree. Remember Mike Weaver? We didn't think much of him when the Canucks let him go.

Who's this "we"? I loved Micro-Weave!

 

[bossram]

Hockey systems really aren't that complicated it's not like football or basketball, defensively there is only so much you can do. The wingers need to cover the D, the D and centers get below the dots, weak side wingers drop down and cover in front of the net when needed. Defensively you need to outnumber the opponent the best you can in most situations, a lot of it relies on the players awareness.

like what are people actually asking green to do, specifically? Play less defense and more offense? Well duh

If you have good players they will execute whatever system you put forth, it's not rocket science

How can you demand a better breakout from Green but at the same time you have one single good offensive d-man and he's a rookie. You have shutdown guys with the likes of Edler, Myers, Fantenberg, Jordie Benn, Hamonic etc feeding the puck up to wingers like Eriksson, Roussel, Virtanen, Highmore, Boyd, Hawrlyuk etc who then have to quickly make good plays to their supporting centreman like Sutter, Beagle and Tyler Motte etc who then are supposed to do what with it?

The coaches suck because the team has sucked because Benning has sucked.

The conversation here isn't even about the Canucks' breakouts. It's about defending the rush. People are correctly pointing out that the Canucks rush defense problems start in the offensive zone, where they play a very heavy forecheck/OZP system. This often causes 3 forwards to be caught deep in the offensive zone when the opposing team breaks out. There's rarely F1 back pressure to disrupt the rush or funnel the opposition into the walls. This leaves the Canucks' defensemen in a tough position, having to play a pretty loose gap rather than pressuring at either the red or blue line.

This is in sharp contrast to a team like TB that essentially plays a 2-3 OZP scheme, with one forward playing high. The high forward can provide immediate back pressure and/or disrupt the opposition when they attempt a breakout. And in the event of a turnover, are in a good position to attack downhill.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

I guess we'll find out after the first 20 games or so, but I'm just not convinced the Canucks will ever play very good team defense with Green behind the bench. They'll hang their goaltender out to dry on a lot of nights, and try to outscore their defensive deficiencies.

It can be as entertaining as hell on a lot of nights, but you won't ever win anything in the post season, playing the way they do in their own zone.

I think it starts with a lack of accountability. Players, particularly the veterans, get a long leash to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Canucks have consistently been in 20-31 range in terms of team defense for most of Green's run here. Not coincidentally, this is the same territory as most of the league's lottery teams.

I hope I'm wrong this season, because the Canucks have brought in some bigger bodies and look to have upgraded their bottom six. But I remain skeptical until proven otherwise.

You're not wrong, but it's not entertaining watching your goalie get peppered almost all the time, it's been more frustrating and boring under Green then exciting imo. And to be honest 20 games isn't going to change my opinion, I've seen this for 4 years now under him.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Then why dont you just shit on Green then, (obviously , your intention) and quit pretending you actually watched the game last night.

That's what I was doing until you wanted to be his hero and chime in

 

[MS]

Who's this "we"? I loved Micro-Weave!

So did I. He was far better than 37 y/o corpse of Aaron Miller who could barely skate by his season here, but was constantly played over Weaver.

 

[F A N]

Who's this "we"? I loved Micro-Weave!

So did I. He was far better than 37 y/o corpse of Aaron Miller who could barely skate by his season here, but was constantly played over Weaver.

Yes but correct me if I'm wrong, both of you saw him as a depth defender rather than a guy you would have in the top 4 or anchoring a 3rd pairing?

 

[Vector]

So did I. He was far better than 37 y/o corpse of Aaron Miller who could barely skate by his season here, but was constantly played over Weaver.

He was the only signing from the bargain bin that Nonis actually got something out of.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

He was the only signing from the bargain bin that Nonis actually got something out of.

I will not stand for this Anson Carter erasure

 

[Vector]

Yes but correct me if I'm wrong, both of you saw him as a depth defender rather than a guy you would have in the top 4 or anchoring a 3rd pairing?

When he was brought in, yeah. When he was leaving, I thought he would be a steady bottom-pairing guy. He was ultimately replaced by Rob Davison and Shane O'Brien and neither were ever any good. At the time I thought O'Brien might have something to his game, though.

 

[Nucker101]

It all depends on what style the team plays. If they play a way that is free flowing and focused on attack. It can work.

Look at the Florida Panthers defense. After Ekblad went down, they were playing Yandle, Forsling, Montour, Stralman(this is the old stralman), Gudas, Weegar. None of them I would say are very good defensively. Nutivaara they added who is solid.

Its not like the canucks were good defensively in the last few years. We were bot 5 all these years. Only really good defender we had was Tanev, and we let him go.

Weegar is great defensively

He’s like a more offensively gifted Tanev for them in the sense that every dman on that team plays better with Weegar than without

 

[Vector]

I will not stand for this Anson Carter erasure

I meant from that infamous offseason. If we're going Nonis whole tenure I'll stand beside Richard Park and angrily argue how misused he was by Crawford.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I will not stand for this Anson Carter erasure

Tommi Santala scored a goal for the Canucks.

 

[MS]

Yes but correct me if I'm wrong, both of you saw him as a depth defender rather than a guy you would have in the top 4 or anchoring a 3rd pairing?

I didn't see him as the top-4 guy he later became but did see him as an NHL regular and a very solid 3rd pairing guy. My Weaver takes were basically the same as my Biega takes - this player is clearly an effective cheap 3rd pairing option who should be playing over worse, higher-paid players because people can't see past size.

 

[Diversification]

The conversation here isn't even about the Canucks' breakouts. It's about defending the rush. People are correctly pointing out that the Canucks rush defense problems start in the offensive zone, where they play a very heavy forecheck/OZP system. This often causes 3 forwards to be caught deep in the offensive zone when the opposing team breaks out. There's rarely F1 back pressure to disrupt the rush or funnel the opposition into the walls. This leaves the Canucks' defensemen in a tough position, having to play a pretty loose gap rather than pressuring at either the red or blue line.

This is in sharp contrast to a team like TB that essentially plays a 2-3 OZP scheme, with one forward playing high. The high forward can provide immediate back pressure and/or disrupt the opposition when they attempt a breakout. And in the event of a turnover, are in a good position to attack downhill.

Exactly. And to make matters worse, because of the lack of forward support in the NZ, d back in and the opposing forwards establish position before our forwards do, essentially setting up a beach head. Then we’re in a grueling struggle to battle our way back out of the zone, often resulting in a mini PK formation to hope to knock the puck loose.

This all but guarantees that we’re exhausted heading into the 3rd. If we’re lucky enough to be holding the lead, it sets the stage for a collapse. If we’re trailing, the other team can just coast and contain because we’re too tired from unnecessarily expending all that energy in our own end.

 

[Nucker101]

I didn't see him as the top-4 guy he later became but did see him as an NHL regular and a very solid 3rd pairing guy. My Weaver takes were basically the same as my Biega takes - this player is clearly an effective cheap 3rd pairing option who should be playing over worse, higher-paid players because people can't see past size.

I like looking at analytics, but..

I think there’s still some merit to the size bias, especially during the playoffs when charging and throwing hits one second later than usual often go uncalled unless it’s a headshot. Smaller defensemen are more likely to get worn down on the forecheck.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Tommi Santala scored a goal for the Canucks.

I was at that game to witness that historic moment.