GDT: Kraken @ Avsen @ Seven

[jabubenice]

Along with Vegas

Vegas is not our kryptonite; Vegas is our daddy!

 

[henchman21]

I’d say more smarter not faster. Someone mentioned Bednar getting out coached against Seattle. I agree more with that than Kraken being a faster or better team because I don’t think they are. Again, Avs just need more patience against that team. Wait and let them make that one more mistake

I'd say both smarter and faster. Outside the Avs' top line, the pace difference is very high. The Avs have great skaters on the backend in the top 4, but they don't always use it... and many times they skate instead of pass, which slows the Avs down. The top line can play at an extreme pace that barely anybody can match.... the rest of the lines though, not really. The 2nd line is painfully slow pace. The third doesn't have the puck enough... they transition, dump the puck and maybe grind for a second. The 4th line without LOC is not pushing the pace. The bottom pairing cartoon quicksand.

 

[GeoRox89]

Here is an interesting stat... Avs are 2nd (behind Edmonton) in xGF% 5v5. Sounds great right?! If you look at situations where the game is tied, they fall all the way down to 20th. It could be a blip, could mean nothing... but is is a very odd thing. This team really struggles to start games and when games are tied.

Would be interesting to see their stats on that from 21-22 and especially the Cup run. I swear even that juggernaut team had a real tendency to wait until they were behind to turn it up a notch. It was like they couldn’t motivate themselves (and still seems that way) until the pressure was on. Once they get going they’re great and yes they capitalize well once they’re ahead.

I don’t think it’s a system/Bednar thing either. There are definitely teams/coaches who really play a park the bus/defend the tie/counterattack style and then lock it down even more once they’re ahead but that is not this team/system it seriously seems like an odd psychology thing with these players

 

[henchman21]

Would be interesting to see their stats on that from 21-22 and especially the Cup run. I swear even that juggernaut team had a real tendency to wait until they were behind to turn it up a notch. It was like they couldn’t motivate themselves (and still seems that way) until the pressure was on. Once they get going they’re great and yes they capitalize well once they’re ahead.

I don’t think it’s a system/Bednar thing either. There are definitely teams/coaches who really play a park the bus/defend the tie/counterattack style and then lock it down even more once they’re ahead but that is not this team/system it seriously seems like an odd psychology thing with these players

22-23 Reg Season: 2nd at 62.5%
21-22 Reg season: 4th at 58.88% Cup Run: 3rd at 58.18% (highest team to make it out of the 1st round)
20-21 Reg season: 1st at 65.71%

Could be a blip... the season is early. It is a weird thing though, and IMO, very noticeable. They are not a high impact team to start or when it is tied. When they are up 1, they can get into a groove and get going. When they are down, the top guys ratchet up.

 

[GeoRox89]

22-23 Reg Season: 2nd at 62.5%
21-22 Reg season: 4th at 58.88% Cup Run: 3rd at 58.18% (highest team to make it out of the 1st round)
20-21 Reg season: 1st at 65.71%

Is that 5 on 5 in general or when tied?

Tough to see what injuries and lack of depth did to that team last year with numbers like that

 

[henchman21]

Is that 5 on 5 in general or when tied?

Tough to see what injuries and lack of depth did to that team last year with numbers like that

5v5 tied... it is a rather narrow stat.

 

[the_fan]

I'd say both smarter and faster. Outside the Avs' top line, the pace difference is very high. The Avs have great skaters on the backend in the top 4, but they don't always use it... and many times they skate instead of pass, which slows the Avs down. The top line can play at an extreme pace that barely anybody can match.... the rest of the lines though, not really. The 2nd line is painfully slow pace. The third doesn't have the puck enough... they transition, dump the puck and maybe grind for a second. The 4th line without LOC is not pushing the pace. The bottom pairing cartoon quicksand.

Things need to be fixed on the Avs for sure but it’s still early to make any final assumptions that this team is gonna suck all year. I said it few times already but I’ll say it again. Having this many new players is gonna take more time and more struggles to get that chemistry and start clicking on all cylinders. I do believe it will come but it may take half a season. If it doesn’t come at all, then obviously the Avs will be in big trouble. They are still 8-4 all things considered

 

[henchman21]

Things need to be fixed on the Avs for sure but it’s still early to make any final assumptions that this team is gonna suck all year. I said it few times already but I’ll say it again. Having this many new players is gonna take more time and more struggles to get that chemistry and start clicking on all cylinders. I do believe it will come but it may take half a season. If it doesn’t come at all, then obviously the Avs will be in big trouble. They are still 8-4 all things considered

Not playing with the fastest pace doesn't mean the Avs suck. Not saying that at all. Plenty of ways to win hockey games. Just saying the Avs do struggle when a team can outpace them... and doubly so when said team is physical on top of it.

I'm not worried about the Avs for the playoffs. They'll make it one way or another. 8-4 is probably a tad misleading given how George played in two wins and with the schedule the Avs have played (and will continue to play... they have one of the easiest schedules in the league). Still 105-110 points is roughly what I'd expect... 98-100 is probably the floor.

Now in the playoffs... this team will need to get the depth rolling and simply play better than they are. Plus be able to handle the physicality of teams.

 

[the_fan]

Not playing with the fastest pace doesn't mean the Avs suck. Not saying that at all. Plenty of ways to win hockey games. Just saying the Avs do struggle when a team can outpace them... and doubly so when said team is physical on top of it.

I'm not worried about the Avs for the playoffs. They'll make it one way or another. 8-4 is probably a tad misleading given how George played in two wins and with the schedule the Avs have played (and will continue to play... they have one of the easiest schedules in the league). Still 105-110 points is roughly what I'd expect... 98-100 is probably the floor.

Now in the playoffs... this team will need to get the depth rolling and simply play better than they are. Plus be able to handle the physicality of teams.

Well when playoffs come, we’re all hoping the Avs will have things figured out and have that team chemistry otherwise they won’t go far. Also I’m pretty sure this isn’t the final roster. There will be changes made at the deadline or sooner maybe. There is still some chance Landy comes back in playoffs, maybe Kovalenko comes over and has immediate impact. To think the sky is falling after every loss this early in the season is bit premature

 

[henchman21]

Well when playoffs come, we’re all hoping the Avs will have things figured out and have that team chemistry otherwise they won’t go far. Also I’m pretty sure this isn’t the final roster. There will be changes made at the deadline or sooner maybe

I'd doubt massive changes... you'll get Kovalenko from Russia (and who really knows the real impact there) and maybe a top 9 forward and depth defensemen. There just isn't room to do more. The cap space isn't there and the guys who make a decent amount of change (so a player could be returned with a decent amount of cap it) are either the guys who won't be traded or are untradable without attaching assets.

The biggest move out there is probably a DeBrusk sort... more likely is a LaBanc sort.

 

[the_fan]

I'd doubt massive changes... you'll get Kovalenko from Russia (and who really knows the real impact there) and maybe a top 9 forward and depth defensemen. There just isn't room to do more. The cap space isn't there and the guys who make a decent amount of change (so a player could be returned with a decent amount of cap it) are either the guys who won't be traded or are untradable without attaching assets.

The biggest move out there is probably a DeBrusk sort... more likely is a LaBanc sort.

Or maybe if RyJo doesn’t produce as a 2C, there is a bigger trade made to get one because without a legit 2C this team won’t go far and they know it

 

[henchman21]

Or maybe if RyJo doesn’t produce as a 2C, there is a bigger trade made to get one because without a legit 2C this team won’t go far and they know it

You'd have to dump RyJo in that instance, which would cost assets... and then spend the assets. Both things the Avs have been reluctant to do even excluding the cap situation around it.

 

[nightonthesun]

when I see people wringing their hands about RyJo, I immediately think back to Kadri’s frequent, long, miserable stretches of invisibility.

The only change I’d be in a hurry to make for now would be to find a way to push Jack Johnson out of the lineup

 

[The Kingslayer]

hey atleast we aint the Oilers. Thats the only positive I got from last night.

 

[GeoRox89]

hey atleast we aint the Oilers. Thats the only positive I got from last night.

Team also fought back to tie after being down 2-0 which is an improvement from earlier when they were dejected and folding like a cheap tent once they were down. Not a lot but it’s something

 

[missionAvs]

hey atleast we aint the Oilers. Thats the only positive I got from last night.

Yep. That's the only think that keeping me from not being over the top pissed. That said, I'll be pissed when they win the draft lottery and pick 1st overall while we suck our way to a 10th overall draft pick.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Yep. That's the only think that keeping me from not being over the top pissed. That said, I'll be pissed when they win the draft lottery and pick 1st overall while we suck our way to a 10th overall draft pick.

The oil will win the draft lottery even if they are not included in it.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

The oil will win the draft lottery even if they are not included in it.

At some point, you have to wonder if Canada's laws regarding cruel and unusual punishment are strong enough. Forcing kids to Edmonton, what the hell are we doing?

 

[Tralfamadore]

The team is really trending downwards right now. They've even managed to stay relatively healthy. It's just not clicking.

 

[Foppa2118]

I’d say more smarter not faster. Someone mentioned Bednar getting out coached against Seattle. I agree more with that than Kraken being a faster or better team because I don’t think they are. Again, Avs just need more patience against that team. Wait and let them make that one more mistake

Seattle doesn't have a faster team, that's just contrarianism.

MacKinnon is a top 2-3 skater in the world. Mikko, Lehky and Val are all pretty fast themselves. On the third line, Wood is also among the fastest in the league. Colton is very fast himself. Tatar can also skate. On the 4th line, LOC and Cogs are also among the fastest in the league. And Olofsson, Tufte, and Drouin can all skate well too.

On the backend, Makar is the fastest D man in the league, maybe fastest overall. Byram, Toews, and Girard are all among the fastest D men in the league. Even JJ can move when he needs to.

You can maybe be as fast as the Avs, but it's basically impossible to be faster than they are as a group. They have too many of the top skaters.

Seattle just *plays* faster right now, because they're a well oiled machine. It's just a bad sample to use the Avs when they're playing poorly, and compare that to Seattle when they're playing well.

They're going to be more hesitant and the mistakes are going to slow their game down. And Seattle's game is to clog up the neutral zone, and play defensive counterstrike hockey, while the Avs mostly just push forward and forecheck.

 

[Avs9296]

Seattle doesn't have a faster team, that's just contrarianism.

MacKinnon is a top 2-3 skater in the world. Mikko, Lehky and Val are all pretty fast themselves. On the third line, Wood is also among the fastest in the league. Colton is very fast himself. Tatar can also skate. On the 4th line, LOC and Cogs are also among the fastest in the league. And Olofsson, Tufte, and Drouin can all skate well too.

On the backend, Makar is the fastest D man in the league, maybe fastest overall. Byram, Toews, and Girard are all among the fastest D men in the league. Even JJ can move when he needs to.

You can maybe be as fast as the Avs, but it's basically impossible to be faster than they are as a group. They have too many of the top skaters.

Seattle just *plays* faster right now, because they're a well oiled machine. It's just a bad sample to use the Avs when they're playing poorly, and compare that to Seattle when they're playing well.

They're going to be more hesitant and the mistakes are going to slow their game down. And Seattle's game is to clog up the neutral zone, and play defensive counterstrike hockey, while the Avs mostly just push forward and forecheck.

I'm sorry I usually always agree with you but Rantanen, Colton, Tatar and JJ are NOT fast players.

Especially Colton and JJ haha.

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm sorry I usually always agree with you but Rantanen, Colton, Tatar and JJ are NOT fast players.

Especially Colton and JJ haha.

Perhaps on Tatar, but to be fair I said he can skate, and JJ can move when he wants to. JJ isn't really that slow, he just doesn't always play fast. Those were the lesser skaters on the team as well.

Colton I stand by though. Perhaps "very" fast was too much, but he plays quick. Part of the reason that hit on Hughes was so devastating, was because he was moving pretty well. He's not among the fastest in the legue, but all you have to do is compare him to guys who weren't the fastest on the Avs like Jost, Saad, or Grigo, and it's pretty easy to see how much faster he is than them.

Mikko is very fast for a big man. He just takes a stride or two to get going. Even Forsberg mentioned it on the DNVR podcast, and how you have to skate well to play with MacKinnon.

No team has 20 burners that are the fastest in the league. The Avs have many of the fastest in the league, and they only have a few that are average, or maybe slightly below average.

 

[the_fan]

Why are we even talking like the Kraken are a better team than the Avs this season? It’s 1-1 between them so far and check the standings, Avs are in playoff position Kraken aren’t

 

[Foppa2118]

Lol Seattle doesn't have our number, and Hakstol doesn't have Bednar's number. It's not like we didn't beat them 4-1 a few weeks ago or anything.

We are simply playing bad inconsistent hockey right now. It doesn't matter what team we are playing we just aren't playing to our capability.

Right now I see the issue is they just don't bring the effort every time they hit ice. One night is there the next they look like they are going through the motions. And if you play that way, you'll get the results we are seeing win one, lose one. It doesn't really matter the opponent.

100% Chet. You can't compare the Avs, and their coaching, when the Avs are beat up or playing poorly, to Seattle when they're on their game and healthy.

And as you say, the Avs just beat them 4-1 a few weeks ago, when the Avs were playing better, and getting better goaltending.

 

[missionAvs]

This team is pissing me the hell off this season. It's the illusion of bringing in a team that's good on paper and these idiots playing like this. I'm pissed and have been drinking but mostly, I'm pissed.