Confirmed with Link: Kosko Resigned - 3 years @4.5 with NTC

[Drivesaitl]

This orgs turning away from the best goalie they have had since Roloson, on the basis of one bad season, mirrors the histrionic reactions they have had to almost all of their valuable player assets. That they self determine diminished value in these players.

20mths ago Talbot was a Vezina candidate. We know his ceiling, and its high. We know that goalies, almost every goalie on the planet go through ups and downs. its very much the nature of the position. About the only goalie you won't see this is Vasilesky during regular season but due to how dominant the Lightning are doing regular season.

So what happened to Talbot here is completely natural. But when you have a ringer goalie you ride the ups and downs, its just what it is. when that goalie is struggling you have to work harder, when that goalie is having the multiple seasons (great) that Talbot has had you ride that wave. I do think there are a lot of micro things an org can do to help or deter goalie performance. We all agree that the goalie coach position is incredibly important. Its also important to recognize that this is an org that in the past (and afairc even with Talbot) told goalies that they cannot use their own goalie coach that they are familiar with, they have to use the teams goalie coach. The latter is asinine. Its absolutely stupid. Its emphasizing team control rather than what the player is comfortable with and used to and that they BENEFIT from.

The basic problem with the arguments thus far about goalies is that people have adopted a hypothesis that Talbot is badbot. That the good Talbot can somehow never return despite him being the same guy.

However something very basic is staring us in the face. Goalie regression. That EVERY freaking goalie we've had here (even Roloson) regressed in time here. Every one. That's not a guess, that's known. Specatularly Talbot is one of the few that has ever showed any signs of rebound here. He rebounded in 16-17 and he did again last spring playing extremely well through March and April (imagine if we had made the playoffs while he was hot)

We don't know WHY goalies regress here but we have a lot of ideas on that Who the goalie coach is, how this may hinder their form, or the workload, or that the Oilers give up a lot of quality chances which can eat away at goalie confidence.

If I was in Koskinens camp I would be concerned with how much Regression has occurred so early in his game here. From the Koskinen camp there must have been a great urgency to get a deal signed here quick before more deleterious results came in. While this deal was signed Koskis stats have been getting worse with almost every performance. The regression was so severe there would have been a lot of motivation to demand a deal QUICK.


My sense is there probably were some demands and the Oilers crated. Because as everybody states there was no reason on the Oilers behalf to do this deal quick. But there was every reason to get a quick deal on Koski's behalf.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Shorter version. In terms of their player assessment there is something wrong in the water the Oilers org is drinking. Bad input leads to bad results and decisions.

When fans adopt, and defend the Oilers bad water decisions they are drinking the tainted koolaid.

just saying, in general. Although specific considerations should also obviously apply.

But its odd how hard some are arguing that the Oilers got this deal right here and signed it an ideal time. Its likely the wrong deal, the wrong price, and signed at the wrong time.

 

[Olof]

Of course Koskinens stats are getting worse because the team is loosing even the goalies (both) are good. At camp Talbot you should figure out why he's stats are still much worse then Koskinens? Maybe Talbot has notbeen able to develob his game..

In oilers goal you have to do too many game savers per game. Even Koskinen steals goals like against Flames. Still people complain when a one timer from 4 meters gets by him.. Oiler's defense just sucks. Koskinen has a really good reputation in Finland. And in finland the level of goalies and goaltending coachimg is at the top. You don't stay in top khl team for years if you are not solid. They trade easily goalies if the team doesn't win.

 

[elmeroil]

Of course Koskinens stats are getting worse because the team is loosing even the goalies (both) are good. At camp Talbot you should figure out why he's stats are still much worse then Koskinens? Maybe Talbot has notbeen able to develob his game..

In oilers goal you have to do too many game savers per game. Even Koskinen steals goals like against Flames. Still people complain when a one timer from 4 meters gets by him.. Oiler's defense just sucks. Koskinen has a really good reputation in Finland. And in finland the level of goalies and goaltending coachimg is at the top. You don't stay in top khl team for years if you are not solid. They trade easily goalies if the team doesn't win.

Welcome to the board!

 

[Stoneman89]

Koskinen is a decent goaltender. Good goaltending is hard to come by.

So is scoring. Are you ready to give Chiasson a 3 year deal at 3.5 mill per?

 

[Stoneman89]

So Talbot was terrible but Koskinen is “better”. Whoo boy, put that bar high! Let’s swoop in and give him a big contract and lots of term!

It’s so Oilers to do this.........

 

[Mr Positive]

Of course Koskinens stats are getting worse because the team is loosing even the goalies (both) are good. At camp Talbot you should figure out why he's stats are still much worse then Koskinens? Maybe Talbot has notbeen able to develob his game..

In oilers goal you have to do too many game savers per game. Even Koskinen steals goals like against Flames. Still people complain when a one timer from 4 meters gets by him.. Oiler's defense just sucks. Koskinen has a really good reputation in Finland. And in finland the level of goalies and goaltending coachimg is at the top. You don't stay in top khl team for years if you are not solid. They trade easily goalies if the team doesn't win.

This is my opinion as well. It is smart to bet on Koskinen, and Talbot as well. Fix the defense and they'll get better. At the very least, we have to fix our D anyway so we might as well do that and re-assess our goalies after. So priority one there is to make sure we keep the goalies long enough to make this experiment.

 

[LaGu]

I think Koskinen's agent should be re-named the GM-whisperer.

 

[guymez]

So is scoring. Are you ready to give Chiasson a 3 year deal at 3.5 mill per?

A 3 year deal for Chiasson is very risky.
I like Chiasson but I see this very much like the Maroon situation.
Trade Chiasson at the deadline..I think you can get a 2nd rounder from a playoff team that needs secondary scoring.
Talk to him before hand and tell him that the team wants him back as a UFA but we need to maximize this situation. That also gives the team a little time in the off season to check is there are other younger faster options out there that wont be as risky on an extended deal.

Thats how I would attempt to deal with Chiasson.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Talbot is done here. He had a great preseason and then lost his mojo from game 1 of the season. Having a goalie that has had 2 subpar seasons in a row as your starter going into the next season on a multi year deal is even worse than hedging your bets on Koskinen. Wheher Koskinen is the right guy to bet on beyond this season is a fair question, betting on Talbot is flat out wrong.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

A 3 year deal for Chiasson is very risky.
I like Chiasson but I see this very much like the Maroon situation.
Trade Chiasson at the deadline..I think you can get a 2nd rounder from a playoff team that needs secondary scoring.
Talk to him before hand and tell him that the team wants him back as a UFA but we need to maximize this situation. That also gives the team a little time in the off season to check is there are other younger faster options out there that wont be as risky on an extended deal.

Thats how I would attempt to deal with Chiasson.

He's starting to go quiet as well. He's a good pro but I've always envisioned him more as a solid 3rd/4th liner so I'd hate to pay him like a top 6 player. If we can land a 2nd rounder for him, he needs to go IMO.

 

[guymez]

He's starting to go quiet as well. He's a good pro but I've always envisioned him more as a solid 3rd/4th liner so I'd hate to pay him like a top 6 player. If we can land a 2nd rounder for him, he needs to go IMO.

Exactly.
He is the type of player that can spot as a top 6 player but he is actually a solid bottom 6 and should be paid like one moving forward.
This team is in a world of hurt cap wise and needs to maximize situations starting this season.
Making the playoffs this season shouldnt be a priority but making sure the team is well positioned next season should be the #1 priority IMO.

 

[Stoneman89]

This is my opinion as well. It is smart to bet on Koskinen, and Talbot as well. Fix the defense and they'll get better. At the very least, we have to fix our D anyway so we might as well do that and re-assess our goalies after. So priority one there is to make sure we keep the goalies long enough to make this experiment.

Not happening. I can see Talbot gone at the deadline.

 

[Stoneman89]

A 3 year deal for Chiasson is very risky.
I like Chiasson but I see this very much like the Maroon situation.
Trade Chiasson at the deadline..I think you can get a 2nd rounder from a playoff team that needs secondary scoring.
Talk to him before hand and tell him that the team wants him back as a UFA but we need to maximize this situation. That also gives the team a little time in the off season to check is there are other younger faster options out there that wont be as risky on an extended deal.

Thats how I would attempt to deal with Chiasson.

This sounds like such a logical idea. So, I doubt very much that it will happen.

 

[Fat Balloon]

I still think a 3 year deal at that price with a NMC was premature. Im still not sure why you would handcuff a goalie to the new GM before the GM is even hired.

 

[The Nuge]

I still think a 3 year deal at that price with a NMC was premature. Im still not sure why you would handcuff a goalie to the new GM before the GM is even hired.

Especially with how bad he’s played lately

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Sub 900 sv% in 2019. That pretty much says it all.

 

[McRpro]

I still think a 3 year deal at that price with a NMC was premature. Im still not sure why you would handcuff a goalie to the new GM before the GM is even hired.

I thought he didn't get a NMC.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sub 900 sv% in 2019. That pretty much says it all.

This will turn out to be Chia's worst deal since Lurch, or Russell, or....

Its not just that Koski is not worth this kind of money, is nothing but an ordinary Goalie, but it also means Talbot is gone, and Talbot will continue to be a better goalie than Koski wherever he lands.

Koskinens edges and crease control isn't even up to pro level at times. So often he over positions to one play and leaves the net empty, this increasing. But his rebound control, going down, lack of mobility moving across, all problems.

This is basically a goalie that will sport 3 GAA and save % around what his career stats are, .904.

That he's huge, blocks out the sun, and still has such ordinary stats is problematic.

 

[Fat Balloon]

I thought he didn't get a NMC.

Modified NMC. From CapFriendly "CLAUSE DETAILS: Player submits a 15 team no trade list."

Mikko Koskinen - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[The Nuge]

This will turn out to be Chia's worst deal since Lurch, or Russell, or....

Its not just that Koski is not worth this kind of money, is nothing but an ordinary Goalie, but it also means Talbot is gone, and Talbot will continue to be a better goalie than Koski wherever he lands.

Koskinens edges and crease control isn't even up to pro level at times. So often he over positions to one play and leaves the net empty, this increasing. But his rebound control, going down, lack of mobility moving across, all problems.

This is basically a goalie that will sport 3 GAA and save % around what his career stats are, .904.

That he's huge, blocks out the sun, and still has such ordinary stats is problematic.

Yep. The game today showed why he’s never going to live up to this contract. Every single goal should have been stopped by an NHL goalie. He plays so deep in the net, and is so slow, that he doesn’t cover enough of the net, even with his size. Take Weber’s goal. You’ve got the hardest shooter in the league firing bombs at you, so you know you need to challenge him. Yet Koskinen isn’t good enough to do that. He stayed deep, and let Weber beat him. When you watch quality goalies, they come out of the paint to cut down the holes, yet Koskinen’s just about on the goal line. And despite that, he still manages to move across comically bad, allowing a goal like Domi’s where all you can do is laugh.

 

[Shathar]

I still think a 3 year deal at that price with a NMC was premature. Im still not sure why you would handcuff a goalie to the new GM before the GM is even hired.

it was a dumb, completely unnecessary, knee-jerk move with this much of the season to go. Kinda reminds you of something Chia would do. But we know it wasn't his doing. I'd say think about that, but most of you already are.

 

[space321]

Wow incredible how many people here turned on Koskinen when he's the only reason we're not dead last in the league lol...

Koskinen or Talbot, in the end it really doesn't f***ing matter when the defense (read: all 5 players on the ice) in front of them give up prime scoring chances every other shift. You can't expect a goalie to bail you out every time.

If Chicago could win a Cup with Niemi, then Talbot and Koskinen are more than good enough if the team in front of them were any decent. If we shelled out 10M for Bobrovsky, I'd bet he'd suck here too.

 

[Stoneman89]

Wow incredible how many people here turned on Koskinen when he's the only reason we're not dead last in the league lol...

Koskinen or Talbot, in the end it really doesn't ****ing matter when the defense (read: all 5 players on the ice) in front of them give up prime scoring chances every other shift. You can't expect a goalie to bail you out every time.

If Chicago could win a Cup with Niemi, then Talbot and Koskinen are more than good enough if the team in front of them were any decent. If we shelled out 10M for Bobrovsky, I'd bet he'd suck here too.

Not so much the crapping on Koskinen but more the defending of Talbot based on the circumstances of the defense as you mentioned.

 

[MettleMcOiler]

Put a proper defence in front of both goalies and we would be in a playoff position easily. I feel both goalies are overcompensating and straining their play because of it.
I would be more concerned if his numbers regressed under a real defense core.

I still think Koskinen is better than Talbot.

The contract was just ill-timed and tainted by Chiarelli, so will be scrutinized and criticised harder than normal.

Don't blame the guy for signing that type of contract offered to him. Considering how fast it was completed, just points to minimal negotiation.

I reiterate, I would wait until a proper defense is in front Koskinen before throwing him under the bus. Maybe a new goalie coach while were at it too.