Knowing what you know now.....

[hotpaws]

Nope, if anything hes helping us build this team 'the right way' am I right?

that's what your hero Burke is now saying is the only way to build a team , too bad he didn't realize that in 08

 

[Bomber0104]

I don't even know what these guys are even defending anymore ?

Burke dealt for Kessel to accelerate our retool not to tank for the next half decade plus yet they're still defending the deal even though Seguin has proved the better player and Hamilton is well under way to becoming at least a first pair D and probably a num 1 as well as a 2nd and 3rd .

They just really want Kessel to be a member of the Leafs.

That's basically it.

There is no real reason for it.

For some unexplained reason, they just really want him to be here.

 

[The Apologist]

I don't even know what these guys are even defending anymore ?

Burke dealt for Kessel to accelerate our retool not to tank for the next half decade plus yet they're still defending the deal even though Seguin has proved the better player and Hamilton is well under way to becoming at least a first pair D and probably a num 1 as well as a 2nd and 3rd .

your ability to miss a point is only outdone by your ability to make ridiculous statements with no basis in fact.

still waiting for an answer, are the Leafs a significantly better team with Hall and RNH than they are now? If so, why isnt Edmonton?

that's what your hero Burke is now saying is the only way to build a team , too bad he didn't realize that in 08

Yup, we could have been a terrible team with a center youve run out of town already for not being ppg and being a headcase and a defensefan who probably also gets run out of town for being 'soft' and a giveaway machine.

 

[hotpaws]

They just really want Kessel to be a member of the Leafs.

That's basically it.

There is no real reason for it.

For some unexplained reason, they just really want him to be here.

I think they'll still hoping that some way , some how Kessel will lead us to the promised land and justify their faith in Burke and his ****ed up re tool .

 

[Bomber0104]

your ability to miss a point is only outdone by your ability to make ridiculous statements with no basis in fact.

still waiting for an answer, are the Leafs a significantly better team with Hall and RNH than they are now? If so, why isnt Edmonton?

But if we add legends like Phaneuf, Lupul, Franson, and Bernier to the mix....

Obviously we'd be Cup contenders.

 

[The Apologist]

I think they'll still hoping that some way , some how Kessel will lead us to the promised land and justify their faith in Burke and his ****ed up re tool .

Topic of thread: Kessel trade, would you re-do it.
COnsensus: The Kessel trade killed this teams future.
Reality: One trade did not kill this team and it would still be terrible.

Hotpaws: Derp, they all think Kessel is da best, cuz arguing that his trade didnt destroy us obviously means that. I knows my hockey, derp. FAIL FOR NAIL!!

 

[hotpaws]

your ability to miss a point is only outdone by your ability to make ridiculous statements with no basis in fact.

still waiting for an answer, are the Leafs a significantly better team with Hall and RNH than they are now? If so, why isn't Edmonton?

Edm was starting to become a better team until they hired Eakins and are playing much better since they turfed him .

we're bottom 10 with Kessel in his prime and i'd safely say we'd be much better with Hall and RNH when they hot their prime .

also we're still waiting why you stopped mentioning the Islanders among other tank teams that have passed us ?

 

[Bomber0104]

Topic of thread: Kessel trade, would you re-do it.
COnsensus: The Kessel trade killed this teams future.
Reality: One trade did not kill this team and it would still be terrible.

Hotpaws: Derp, they all think Kessel is da best, cuz arguing that his trade didnt destroy us obviously means that. I knows my hockey, derp. FAIL FOR NAIL!!

But what about the Islanders, Panthers, and the Blue Jackets?

One draft pick changed those teams' fortunes forever.

Why are you not addressing this point?

Is it because statements you've made in the past about those very teams are in direct contradiction with what those teams did to become successful?

Please respond.

 

[hotpaws]

Yup, we could have been a terrible team with a center youve run out of town already for not being ppg and being a headcase and a defensefan who probably also gets run out of town for being 'soft' and a giveaway machine.

I think we're making progress now , at least you've stopped saying Seguin/Hamilton wouldn't have made the NHL if the Leafs drafted them .

 

[Bomber0104]

I think we're making progress now , at least you've stopped saying Seguin/Hamilton wouldn't have made the NHL if the Leafs drafted them .

Oh really?

I must have missed that one.

Let me guess...

The old "Toronto wouldn't have developed Seguin into the player he is today (but will develop Rielly and Nylander)" argument .

 

[The Apologist]

Edm was starting to become a better team until they hired Eakins and are playing much better since they turfed him .

we're bottom 10 with Kessel in his prime and i'd safely say we'd be much better with Hall and RNH when they hot their prime .

also we're still waiting why you stopped mentioning the Islanders among other tank teams that have passed us ?

Have the Islanders passed us? Or are they a one year wonder? Lts wait and see on that.

As for Edmonton, under which coach were they looking better again? Why would they fire the guy who was apparently improving the team as you state? Sounds like a pretty far leap to me athough I guess better is a relative term though when discussing the Oilers.
Regardless, we would still be a terrible team, Kessel or no Kessel. Wanna know why? Cuz a team is more than one player. That trade did not do us in any more than the Phaneuf one did, or the whatever mysterious plan Nonis has instituted since did.

 

[hotpaws]

Oh really?

I must have missed that one.

Let me guess...

The old "Toronto wouldn't have developed Seguin into the player he is today (but will develop Rielly and Nylander)" argument .

good guess

 

[The Apologist]

I think we're making progress now , at least you've stopped saying Seguin/Hamilton wouldn't have made the NHL if the Leafs drafted them .

No progress made yet, since you still seem convinced that Dallas Stars Seguin is apparently the Seguin that entered the League so many years ago.

 

[Menzinger]

I strongly suspect had we drafted Seguin you wouldn't be calling him a "soft , party boy with character issues " .

I personally quite like Seguin as a player (I also don't care what he does off the ice). Would love to see him on the leafs.

But the two biggest criticisms leveled against him by Boston fans (and others) is that he was/iz soft, and has significant character issues. Two criticisms that are constantly leveled at Kessel on here.

That's why it's ironic.

 

[Erdinger]

That's going under the assumption that he/she is being serious here, and not playing the part.

Nobody would do something like that here would they?

 

[hotpaws]

Have the Islanders passed us? Or are they a one year wonder? Lts wait and see on that.

As for Edmonton, under which coach were they looking better again? Why would they fire the guy who was apparently improving the team as you state? Sounds like a pretty far leap to me athough I guess better is a relative term though when discussing the Oilers.
Regardless, we would still be a terrible team, Kessel or no Kessel. Wanna know why? Cuz a team is more than one player. That trade did not do us in any more than the Phaneuf one did, or the whatever mysterious plan Nonis has instituted since did.

so reversing the trade and adding a num 1 C and a first pair D would't have made us a better team ?

just adding a num 1 C made the Stars much better so why wouldn't adding both those pieces help us

 

[Bomber0104]

I personally quite like Seguin as a player (I also don't care what he does off the ice). Would love to see him on the leafs.

But the two biggest criticisms leveled against him by Boston fans (and others) is that he was/iz soft, and has significant character issues. Two criticisms that are constantly leveled at Kessel on here.

That's why it's ironic.

Seguin drinks and likes girls.

Kessel eats and likes food and his couch.

Different character "issues", in case you haven't noticed or can't discern between the two.

 

[Menzinger]

Seguin drinks and likes girls.

Kessel eats and likes food and his couch.

Different character issues, in case you haven't noticed or can't discern between the two.

And Boston's management felt it was impacting his play negatively enough to boot him off the team as quickly as they could, for a relatively awful return in assets. Late night partying, leading to being too exhausted to get to team meetings and practices, ect. Overall, they felt he lacked a commitment to the team (sound familiar?).

 

[The Apologist]

I personally quite like Seguin as a player (I also don't care what he does off the ice). Would love to see him on the leafs.

But the two biggest criticisms leveled against him by Boston fans (and others) is that he was/iz soft, and has significant character issues. Two criticisms that are constantly leveled at Kessel on here.

That's why it's ironic.

Whats humorous is that the same people saying 'I wish we'd not traded for Kessel and had Seguin/Hamilton blah blah blah' are generally the same people who have already written off the prospects we have and would have been *****ing that we 'could have had Kessel if only we had traded a stupid first, instead we have a headcase like Seguin and a turnover machine like Hamilton'.

Theyre also the ones that tend to create threads like:
KNowing what we know now, and assuming that the Leafs drafted the exact same players, developed them the other teams developed them, made all the exact same other moves, and that every other single thing in life except that one trade remained exactly the same, would you rather....

 

[The Apologist]

And Boston's management felt it was impacting his play negatively enough to boot him off the team as quickly as they could, for a relatively awful return in assets. Late night partying, leading to being too exhausted to get to team meetings and practices, ect.

It would have totally flown under the radar in Toronto, nothing like that ever gets blown outta proportions here

 

[The Apologist]

so reversing the trade and adding a num 1 C and a first pair D would't have made us a better team ?

just adding a num 1 C made the Stars much better so why wouldn't adding both those pieces help us

So youre still stuck in this belief that Dallas Stars Seguin is the Seguin we get off the bat eh?

If I were a Bruins fan, Id be pissed that he pretended to be so different to the point that they dealt him for peanuts.

 

[Bomber0104]

And Boston's management felt it was impacting his play negatively enough to boot him off the team as quickly as they could, for a relatively awful return in assets. Late night partying, leading to being too exhausted to get to team meetings and practices, ect.

Or maybe they just had too strong of centre depth in Bergeron and Krecji for Seguin to displace them, and felt like they could get a package of players and prospects needed to keep their window of contention alive and their future solidified at the same time.

 

[hotpaws]

It would have totally flown under the radar in Toronto, nothing like that ever gets blown outta proportions here

the funny thing is you think our main stream media reports on the players personal lives when they rarely if ever do

do you actually think our guys run home to bed after every game ?

 

[Menzinger]

Or maybe they just had too strong of centre depth in Bergeron and Krecji for Seguin to displace them, and felt like they could get a package of players and prospects needed to keep their window of contention alive and their future solidified at the same time.

They could have played Seguin on the wing - but they were so disgruntled with his off ice character issues, they decided to pull the triger on the trade. They even went as far as to release a video of behind the scenes discussion of the trade, where they bring up his 'off ice issues' - this trade wasn't made for the sake of asset management: they felt they had a big problem and took action on it. You just KNOW they had to big issues with him if the team was seriously considering trading a player of Seguin's skill level in order to keep some guy like Horton!

http://blogs.canoe.ca/slam/hockey/an-inside-look-at-the-tyler-seguin-trade-bruins-management/

 

[The Apologist]

the funny thing is you think our main stream media reports on the players personal lives when they rarely if ever do

do you actually think our guys run home to bed after every game ?

You cant seriously be implying that the Toronto media would not have been all over it. Come on now, whos being the dashboard doll now?