Knee jerk reactions of other teams: Benefit to the Leafs

[WarLard]

Joe thornton would be amazing on our first line, though it would probably cost too much to pry him away for a couple good years. I would really consider making a move for pavelski though. Maybe package bozak with something else they value to take him. That way we have our USA Olympic first line and still have kadri for our 2nd line. Then we draft a winger to play beside him and get some secondary scoring solidified

 

[Swervin81]

Also we already have chokers as leaders (read: Phaneuf, Lupul) we need to rid of them instead of adding another choker.

Jumbo just pigeonholes himself. He forces passes when he should shoot or take it to the net, both of which he can do when he wants to. It's all mental with him. He could go out, get a 4 goal game, and do his celebration if he really wanted to. He is pass-first to a fault.

Besides we already see how Bozak forces passes, Jumbo would make you pull your hair out.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Jumbo just pigeonholes himself. He forces passes when he should shoot or take it to the net, both of which he can do when he wants to. It's all mental with him. He could go out, get a 4 goal game, and do his celebration if he really wanted to. He is pass-first to a fault.

Besides we already see how Bozak forces passes, Jumbo would make you pull your hair out.

Sharks are in a bit of a quandary IMO. Big Joe (34), Marleau (34), Pavelski (29), Havlat (33) their big guys are getting older and they are in a win now situation. Chances are they might be willing to part with one of their younger players to "Win Now" that is where we have to get something done. Its just too bad we do not have anything of quality to offer.

I would prefer keeping youth and giving them any of Bozak, Lupul, Phaneuf, Reimer.

As for Bozak. After almost 5 seasons of playing with Kessel he reaches close to ppg at age 28 and people talk about him like the second coming of Gretzky lol. Bozak's passes are so frustrating and with this team's defense Thornton's passes will be X infinity

 

[TheScruffington]

Unless some players are getting bought out and the Leafs can get them for a real low amount/low term, or we can get them for peanuts in a trade, no thanks.

We need to acquire important players through the draft.

 

[Confucius]

If I understand this correctly, the Sharks choked in the playoffs yet again. We now want to try and get some players from this team that seems to crash and burn when the heat is on.

Yep makes sense to me...

 

[Trapper]

Unless some players are getting bought out and the Leafs can get them for a real low amount/low term, or we can get them for peanuts in a trade, no thanks.

We need to acquire important players through the draft.

It's already started.
Maybe SJ will blow it up and give us Thornton or Couture.
Maybe STL will blow it up and give us Backes.
Maybe this team will blow it up and give us their good players for Gleason and Lupul.
Sign Stastny to 7 million.
No.
How about we draft our own and then we don't have to wait for other teams to blow it up.
Every year people say sign this guy, get this guy. Well the guys we sign we overpay and they don't work. The guys you want us to get are not available. What's left that we haven't tried?

 

[TheScruffington]

It's already started.
Maybe SJ will blow it up and give us Thornton or Couture.
Maybe STL will blow it up and give us Backes.
Maybe this team will blow it up and give us their good players for Gleason and Lupul.
Sign Stastny to 7 million.
No.
How about we draft our own and then we don't have to wait for other teams to blow it up.
Every year people say sign this guy, get this guy. Well the guys we sign we overpay and they don't work. The guys you want us to get are not available. What's left that we haven't tried?

Teams that depend on other teams to draft and develop key players, and then acquire those players through trade or F/A signings are usually lost causes and mediocre teams.

 

[Stephen]

Yes, perhaps some teams out there might be willing to make knee jerk decisions out there, but you also have to consider the adverse effect of adding cast offs as a key to building a solid team.

The NHL has three elite playoff cores belonging to LA, Boston and Chicago. They are battle tested, thrive under intense pressure, exhibit total buy in mentalities and win. These three teams possess Toew, Kane, Keith, Sharp, Seabrook, Hossa, Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Bergeron, Chara, Krejci, Lucic, Marchand, Rask. You're really not going to build a winning program to eventually compete with these casts by trying to get lucky with cast offs. You have to build it from the ground up like Columbus is trying to do.

 

[King85Kong]

Sharks are in a bit of a quandary IMO. Big Joe (34), Marleau (34), Pavelski (29), Havlat (33) their big guys are getting older and they are in a win now situation. Chances are they might be willing to part with one of their younger players to "Win Now" that is where we have to get something done. Its just too bad we do not have anything of quality to offer.

I would prefer keeping youth and giving them any of Bozak, Lupul, Phaneuf, Reimer.

As for Bozak. After almost 5 seasons of playing with Kessel he reaches close to ppg at age 28 and people talk about him like the second coming of Gretzky lol. Bozak's passes are so frustrating and with this team's defense Thornton's passes will be X infinity

Lol it's so true. One good season, and now he is god like. People haven't learnt from Clarkson. One good season does not make a player. I would trade Bozak for big Joe in a heart beat. Buy low, sell high.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

What's the endgame of signing Ott? What are we aiming for here?

Bozak-Kadri-Ott/Holland? That's terrible centre depth. We shouldn't be trying to add pieces to this group in free agency, we should be trying to beef up the farm system so that we can fill the 3rd line C spot internally.

A gritty player with intangibles? Where have we heard this before.

Knee jerk reaction and we make out like bandits …… OK LOL.

 

[bursilym]

LMFAO. This thread is pointless. Our organization isnt smart enough to make moves like this.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

San Jose wouldn't even have a knee-jerk reaction. That core has been together for what seems like forever. I'm talking about Thornton and Marleau of course. I'd gladly take either one. The only issue with Thornton, minus his label of being a loser, which is totally ridiculous, is that I don't think he's a fit with Kessel. Joe just can't keep up with him at age 35. He'd look great with a guy like Lupul though. I still want a rebuild but I wouldn't be opposed to bringing a player like him in. Maybe a return back to the Toronto area is what the guy needs.

 

[MajorLeaf]

You can’t win a cup if you don't get in. Sometimes you have to learn to walk before you can run. We aren't going from 8th worst in the league to cup contenders. You get into the playoffs a few years in a row and some real key pieces will actually consider coming to Toronto. Until we prove our team isn't a joke we are just going to keep getting snubbed by any free agents and blacklisted from players that have any sort of NTC.

The Leafs get snubbed by free agents because our media and fans are crazy and the expectation to win is too great. Then factor in crazy management changes, garbage ownership, the high taxes to play in Ontario, and the lower Canadian dollar will be reason enough for these high end free agents to avoid the Maple Leafs like the plague regardless if the team is winning or not.

This is why the Maple Leafs has to overpay for plugs like Clarkson on contracts usually given out to 20+ consistent goal scorers.

I also think its funny you call people like Thornton, Boyle, Vlasic losers, they have won gold medals. This year they choked sure but they lost to a damn good team and there was some questionable calls. A guy like Thornton(isnt my first choice to trade for by the way but still) could bring Kessel to an even higher level. Having a pair of wingers that can easily hit 40 goals or in Kessel's case 50 with someone like Thornton wouldn't be a bad idea. Our PP would get substantially better as well which is one areas we need to improve on.

How is any team going to win the Stanley Cup with a center like Joe Thornton who has scored 3 goals or less as his highest goal total in every single playoffs he has been in the NHL? The last two seasons he has scored a combined 4 goals in 18 games with 11 assists.

Thornton would not elevate Kessel with less than an assist per game, and he already plays with a 33 goal scorer in Marleau and 41 goal scorer in Pavelski this year. Marleau had 3 goals and Pavelski 2 goals in the Kings Playoff series. The forward core chokes in the playoffs and this is why San Jose fans are asking for a re-tool.

I guess that all you are after are players that have Stanley cup rings? It’s a shame any key pieces that have won the cup in the last 5 or more seasons aren't even being mentioned in trade talk. Sure you can go out and get people for the bottom 6 with rings but you need people to take the next step and become champions because Conn Smythe trophy winners aren't usually on the trading block.

Our previous pick ups of Kris Versteeg, Dave Bolland haven't exactly paid off which is about the highest quality of players contending teams will let go despite them being winners.

No, the Maple Leafs does not need to get players with Stanley Cup rings like Kris Versteeg or Dave Bolland. This is not a requirement. Instead, the Maple Leafs should be getting players with promise but are expendable due to roster depth, or salary cap situation, or positional need.

A perfect example is Luke Schenn for JvR. Philadelphia had more forwards coming up in their system and JvR was struggling so the trade was made for both parties needs. Another situation is Bernier where Quick was the number one goalie and Bernier was no longer needed. These are the types of moves the Leafs should continue making.

Richards and Carter both lost in the playoffs before they got their rings in LA.

As stated above, Richard and Carter were young expendable talent due to the upcoming talent on the Flyers and the alleged locker room issues. Also, Richard was instrumental in the Flyers 2010 Stanley Cup Finals run with 23 points in 23 games.

So the Kings gave up literally a Kings ransom to get someone like Richards which paid off. The Leafs would most likely need to pay a kings ransom to pry a 25 year old center that helped the team get into the Stanley Cup Finals. That risk paid off for the Kings, the Leafs just need to keep at getting quality players on good contracts.

The Leafs are fine in the scoring department, the team requires better defence. The last two years shows this.

2013-2014
Goals For: 222 – 14th overall
Goals Against: 252 – 26th overall

2012-2013
Goals For: 145 – 6th overall
Goals Against: 128 – 17th overall

Veteran forwards like Joe Thornton or Patrick Marleau are not the most pressing need for the Leafs. Yes it would benefit the Leafs to have either player, but in the end the team needs to improve on defence more than any position, and having older players that have not done well in the playoffs will not help the Leafs.

 

[BayStBullies]

After watching Sharks crash and burn I expect a knee jerk reaction from them where they move bodies. I expect similar reaction from Flyers, Tampa, Blues, potentially Dallas

We have assets to part with

Bozak sell high - known for FOs and with the productive season will fetch something useful from knee jerk reactions.
Clarkson: retain salary, history of being a grinder
Phaneuf: history of producing from backend
Lupul: 2 productive seasons with leafs but injury prone


Now is the time to start planning. I expect losers of 2nd round also make decisions in haste.

What you guys think?

Before posting this sort of thing; consider the following:

Would the Leafs at this current time in your eyes; be best to pursue these players in an acquisitions; which you are trying to peddle to these other teams?

The answer is quite frankly NO

Sometimes it's good to remember that trades are something both teams need to approve of happening. It's not that hard to figure out. These type of posts need to die.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Islanders. It's not a "knee-jerk" reaction, but they do NOT want to give up a high pick in next years draft. They want to get better right now.

They also could use many of our spare parts. Scoring winger? Lupul. Offensive dman? Franson. Goaltender? Reimer. If they're open to a bigger trade, then maybe even one of Phaneuf/Kessel, and they have the type of high pick / top prospects to make a big trade like that happen.

SJ will probably be moving older players, which we shouldn't be targeting. McLellan could be a potential target though if they fire their coach.

TB and Dallas I expect to be patient, those guys were both mentored by Holland, and also both have some pretty young pieces. So it's not like these are teams that are in their primes yet.

Flyers/Blues? Maybe. Holmgren has never been gun-shy when it's come to big trades. And St. Louis probably feels like they need a major offensive boost at this point.

Methinks you dream too much. The players you mention have not been stalwarts and their reputation for the kinds of things you in Toronto complain about are just as well known to others. They don't live under rocks. They watch every game played.

This is the 21st century and they have access to every game played and they pay people to break them down and analyze talent they might go after. They will all be looking for deals while hunting for the last couple of pieces they think will gain them the grail. They will be willing to deal with Toronto, but the Leafs will have to come up with real talent that doesn't have a big negative side to accompany the positive. The question will be is Toronto ready to part with a real trading piece?

 

[Bad Goalie]

I bolded St. Louis - because they probably won't sign Ott - and he would be a great replacement for 4th line C.

Ott will go to the highest bidder with real Cup aspirations. Toronto only gets him if he can't find a better deal.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

LMFAO. This thread is pointless. Our organization isnt smart enough to make moves like this.

Just cuz we finished in 105th place ?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1655537

 

[-DeMo-]

I'd wager that SJ probably looks at trading thornton and I have little doubt if that does happen Nonis will be all over that, even tho he shouldn't be. what we will have to give up in young assets is not worth it.

 

[Duffman955]

Joe thornton would be amazing on our first line, though it would probably cost too much to pry him away for a couple good years. I would really consider making a move for pavelski though. Maybe package bozak with something else they value to take him. That way we have our USA Olympic first line and still have kadri for our 2nd line. Then we draft a winger to play beside him and get some secondary scoring solidified

Pavelaki watched as jvr +kessel made big time plays.

Most overrated player on HF. If you watch him play, he is nothing special.

Would rather go after stastny hard in UFA. He's a player that makes his line mates better, instead of just leaching

 

[Rielly4]

Pavelaki watched as jvr +kessel made big time plays.

Most overrated player on HF. If you watch him play, he is nothing special.

Would rather go after stastny hard in UFA. He's a player that makes his line mates better, instead of just leaching

not true man... Ive watched him play a lot.. He is special. Hes extremely agile he has great hands good vision and a terrific shot. He also isnt afraid to go to the dirty areas. Pavelskis a terrific player, but he cant do as much without the puck due to size as a Kopitar can.

I would be more interested in Couture personally as hes younger and i like him better as a player all around.. Im very interested in Couture if hes potentially available.

 

[Purity*]

Not interested in ANY Blues or Sharks players. NONE.

Leafs need to decide if they are in win-mode or build-mode. I still think this team needs to be in build mode, there is no way our defense is passable for a contender, I don't even think it's passable for a playoff team. I want to see our youngsters develop on defense (Gardiner, Rielly, Percy, Finn, Granberg) and see the organization pool tons of money into scouting/development, draft some forwards, and develop them the PROPER way.

That is by far the most successful recipe for a contender. This whole quick-rebuild win-now ******** DOES NOT WORK. I really hope Shanahan changes our approach to building the team.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Not interested in ANY Blues or Sharks players. NONE.

Leafs need to decide if they are in win-mode or build-mode. I still think this team needs to be in build mode, there is no way our defense is passable for a contender, I don't even think it's passable for a playoff team. I want to see our youngsters develop on defense (Gardiner, Rielly, Percy, Finn, Granberg) and see the organization pool tons of money into scouting/development, draft some forwards, and develop them the PROPER way.

That is by far the most successful recipe for a contender. This whole quick-rebuild win-now ******** DOES NOT WORK. I really hope Shanahan changes our approach to building the team.

none? not even Pietroangelo?

 

[Trapper]

none? not even Pietroangelo?

Oshie?

 

[-DeMo-]

Oshie?

Vlasic?

 

[Purity*]

none? not even Pietroangelo?

If we didn't have to give away the entire farm I'd GLADLY trade for Pietrangelo.

In all honesty, do you think the Leafs would ever give them a call for Polak? Very solid stay-at-home D-man who's right handed and plays a gritty game. Blues already have Pietrangelo/Shattenkirk on the right side.