Klingberg is amazing

[DDRhockey]

His offense is dazzling but how is he defensively?? I don’t get to watch him so any information would help.

Not worse than burns

 

[Magic Mittens]

His offense is dazzling but how is he defensively?? I don’t get to watch him so any information would help.

I'm not much of a corsi guy and maybe someone else can help with this, but I believe he's in the top with goals against per 60 mins, shots allowed per 60 mins and some other D stats

He avgs 23 mins a night and imo from watching he's playing great at both ends.

Doesn't play physical, but he's gotten better at angling guys to the boards and he's pretty good with his poke checks

I could care less if he wins the Norris, I'm just happy that Dallas finally has a #1 defencemen and possible another with Heiskanen!

Also Lindell needs to get some credit as he plays a simple game with Klingberg and those two have made a great pairing

 

[Mensch]

Thank you

 

[42]

Not worse than burns

That's not hard.

 

[badboy1994]

Klingberg is my Norris favourite - leads defenders in scoring and has lethal shot impacts with much less generous zone deployment than most (all?) other serious candidates.

 

[maacoshark]

Can you explain why Klingberg is consistently putting up fantastic corsi and GOALS suppression numbers? I thought to traditionalists, the point of playing defense is preventing goals (That's technically the goalies job), so the fact that Klingberg allows less goals than his peers 5on5 means he's already a good defenseman by traditionalists point of view.

Lol another stats guy. Corsi is actually a team stat. It also doesn't take into account what kind of players you are up against. Shutdown dmen are matched up against all the top scorers in the league so their corsi might be lower

 

[Zrhutch]

Lol another stats guy. Corsi is actually a team stat. It also doesn't take into account what kind of players you are up against. Shutdown dmen are matched up against all the top scorers in the league so their corsi might be lower

...You know Klingberg’s been given much less generous zone starts than most of his Norris competition, right? Like there’s proof of this. His QoC is very similar to Subban’s, and he’s bringing better results (I love PK tho).

All around, he’s helped his team win this year more than any other defenseman. That’s indisputable. That should be enough to make him a Norris favorite, and the fact that he isn’t a typical candidate makes it that much cooler.

 

[RickP]

Klingberg is my Norris favourite - leads defenders in scoring and has lethal shot impacts with much less generous zone deployment than most (all?) other serious candidates.

What's that "noise" in the graphic you attached? Is it secondary assists? Thanks for posting it by the way

And I would say Subban has much less generous zone deployment than any other serious candidates. Only 10-15 other Dmen in the league start more often in the Dzone than Subban. But yeah, other offensive minded Dmen like Burns and Karlsson have really generous zone deployment. The other candidates, like Pietrangelo, Doughty, Hedman, all seem to have similar deployment overall. Only Subban sticks out with his close to 37% Dzone starts overall, and 60% if we don't include neutral zone starts.

It's not like it's the main criteria to win the Norris though. Some voters will look at it, but it's just an interesting "stat" to look at, I don't think it will affect their opinion that much. I would say in Subban's case, the biggest argument he has is he had to play with Emelin all season long. Nothing against Emelin, he's an ok Dman, but he should be playing 3rd pairing minutes.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

...You know Klingberg’s been given much less generous zone starts than most of his Norris competition, right? Like there’s proof of this. His QoC is very similar to Subban’s, and he’s bringing better results (I love PK tho).

What?

His QoC is 4th on Dallas' D, at 28.94. Subban's is 29.18, which is not an insignificant difference for that stat. That's 2nd pairing competition on their respective teams.

In addition, Subban's zone starts are 26% O, 36.5 D, 37.5 Neutral. That's a relative zone start ratio of -9.91. Klingbergs are 29.5% O, 30.5 D, 40% Neutral. Klingberg's relative zone start ratio is at 5.79.

The 'he's bringing better results' is reflective of role and deployment; Subban is playing defensive d-man, Klingberg is playing offensive d-man.

 

[maacoshark]

...You know Klingberg’s been given much less generous zone starts than most of his Norris competition, right? Like there’s proof of this. His QoC is very similar to Subban’s, and he’s bringing better results (I love PK tho).

All around, he’s helped his team win this year more than any other defenseman. That’s indisputable. That should be enough to make him a Norris favorite, and the fact that he isn’t a typical candidate makes it that much cooler.

His zone starts favor the offensive zone. And he doesn't usually line up against the top players. He isn't the worse dman in his own end but he is far from the best.
I agree that he is doing a lot for his team. There are plenty if other good dmen around the league but Klingberg has been the most consistent. Before the Hedman's injury I thought he was the top candidate for the Norris but I think Klingberg is now the top guy.

 

[serp]

"His zone starts favor the offensive zone."

Of course they do . He's by far the best offensive defenseman on the team . If you plan to score you put the Klingberg pairing out there 10 out of 10 times when he's not tired.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

His zone starts favor the offensive zone. And he doesn't usually line up against the top players. He isn't the worse dman in his own end but he is far from the best.
I agree that he is doing a lot for his team. There are plenty if other good dmen around the league but Klingberg has been the most consistent. Before the Hedman's injury I thought he was the top candidate for the Norris but I think Klingberg is now the top guy.

Yeah, I agree with that. I was going to take a closer look at the break, but I think he's emerging as my current frontrunner considering no one's really emerged from the pack so recency bias has to play a big part. But like you I also think it's more of a Burns situation where he's getting cushy minutes because there's a good defensive d pairing behind him. You can only crush the minutes you're given so as long as you're scoring big and aren't being bad defensively there's no reason he shouldn't be a Norris candidate.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

"His zone starts favor the offensive zone."

Of course they do . He's by far the best offensive defenseman on the team . If you plan to score you put the Klingberg pairing out there 10 out of 10 times when he's not tired.

Yes, you have to do that. But when you have posters suggesting he's getting tougher starts and competition than other Norris contenders, it's gonna get called out 10 out of 10 times as well.

 

[serp]

Yeah but its not like he's getting sheltered either . Yes he's not playing the toughest opponents all the time but he's also not actively hidden from them either. Hitch likes to play the 3rd line Roussel-Faksa-Pitlick together with Hamhuis-Pateryn against the opponents topline whenever possible and it has been working very well. Said so in to the media that he prefers the 5-man defensive unit to play shutdown minutes . I mean they're also our primary PK-ers.

 

[maacoshark]

Yeah but its not like he's getting sheltered either . Yes he's not playing the toughest opponents all the time but he's also not actively hidden from them either. Hitch likes to play the 3rd line Roussel-Faksa-Pitlick together with Hamhuis-Pateryn against the opponents topline whenever possible and it has been working very well.

Look at a guy like Carlson in Washington. He is their top offensive dman but his zone starts favor the defensive zone. He also matches up against all the top players. And is on the top pk unit. I dont consider him a shutdown dman but he is considerably better than Klingberg. He is more versatile. Maybe he should be getting some consideration for the Norris.

 

[serp]

Together with the corpse of Brooks Orpik which quite frankly i consider to be a dumb coaching decision.

 

[glovesave_35]

Look at a guy like Carlson in Washington. He is their top offensive dman but his zone starts favor the defensive zone. He also matches up against all the top players. And is on the top pk unit. I dont consider him a shutdown dman but he is considerably better than Klingberg. He is more versatile. Maybe he should be getting some consideration for the Norris.

He probably should be.

 

[maacoshark]

Together with the corpse of Brooks Orpik which quite frankly i consider to be a dumb coaching decision.

I know but its either that or one of the rookies.

 

[serp]

I know but its either that or one of the rookies.

Worth a try , might surprise you . Don't know how good Bowey and Djoos are though. Orpik is well Orpik. A strong player like Carlson should able to get more out of a rookie than out of a completely cooked Brooks Orpik but maybe thats just me.

I watched Ruff throw out completely cooked Oduya last year for way too much . At least this year we don't have a guy thats done and still getting way too much playtime. Thought Hamhuis would be that but suprisingly he hasn't been . He's actually been outstanding .

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Lol another stats guy. Corsi is actually a team stat. It also doesn't take into account what kind of players you are up against. Shutdown dmen are matched up against all the top scorers in the league so their corsi might be lower

Right, but if said shutdown Dmen is getting manhandled in his role, and a "sheltered" player is destroying his competition, clearly the shutdown D is not doing a good job. Also when Klingberg is on the ice he allows less goals than his peers.

 

[maacoshark]

Worth a try , might surprise you . Don't know how good Bowey and Djoos are though. Orpik is well Orpik.

They are rookies. Djoos is decent with the puck but he is too small and doesn't win any battles. He is only around 160lbs. Bowey is stronger but doesn't move the puck near as well. Both of these dmen have been sheltered which is why Carlson is getting so many mins. Right now Orpik is the better option for defensive purposes. It sucks but it is what it is.

 

[maacoshark]

Right, but if said shutdown Dmen is getting manhandled in his role, and a "sheltered" player is destroying his competition, clearly the shutdown D is not doing a good job. Also when Klingberg is on the ice he allows less goals than his peers.

Like I said he doesn't match up against top lines so he' d better not be giving up more goals.
I remember the stellar defense against the Caps when Orlov made him look stupid.

 

[serp]

They are rookies. Djoos is decent with the puck but he is too small and doesn't win any battles. He is only around 160lbs. Bowey is stronger but doesn't move the puck near as well. Both of these dmen have been sheltered which is why Carlson is getting so many mins. Right now Orpik is the better option for defensive purposes. It sucks but it is what it is.

Zubov somehow made a skinny 19 year old Niskanen look amazing in this rookie year. A great player can elevate his partner. I know veteran coaches rarely try that sort of thing even when the veteran they prefer is completely cooked.

 

[maacoshark]

Zubov somehow made a skinny 19 year old Niskanen look amazing in this rookie year. A great player can elevate his partner. I know veteran coaches rarely try that sort of thing even when the veteran why prefer is completely cooked.

Djoos plays most of his 5on5 with Carlson which has helped him out. Bowey has been stuck with Orpik and it hasnt worked as well.

 

[Timani]

Like I said he doesn't match up against top lines so he' d better not be giving up more goals.
I remember the stellar defense against the Caps when Orlov made him look stupid.

That Orlov rush was fantastic, but everybody looks stupid from time to time. These elite athletes are competing against each other 82 nights a year.

Klinger has made quite a few other people look stupid this year as well.