Player Discussion Klefbom

[Drivesaitl]

What is this nonsense?

He/them are faking injury?

Let me get this straight: so the story is that first when asked about the significant drop off in hus play he denies any problem, or rather says no comment. Then a month or do later when the management comments on that he is bruised he says ok, but prefers not to comment further and says it is not an excuse. Then after being off for over a week for "maintenance" he comments on his season confirming the injury and when it happened.... Nice story, great imagination by sll involved.

nobody said faking injury. Why are people so upset here today and yesterday?

If the injury is so significant, and information I've searched on it reveals he's been having problems with his shoulder since 2017 playoffs then why did he not get it dealt with then? If its so significant. I mean how much and how long is this going to be significantly impacting his play?

Why do people still insist there is some "injury"? His issues are strictly mental-he's making poor decisions game in game out.

Honestly, with regards to your last point, I don't know what's worse?
-Waiting it out on Klefbom to figure it out while the team suffers his good for 1 goals against per game rate
or
-Chia making a move

I'm astounded that some people feel Klefbom was the Oilers best D last season. That's hyperbole. I've asked for substantiation of that view and of course got nothing in response.

The first thing a D should be able to do in my book is defend and make good sound decisions doing that. Klefbom fails that basic tenet on a regular basis. That's my starting point for D, that they defend well. Klefbom doesn't get out of the blocks on that metric. His GA is consistently high EV.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yup, it's getting absolutely ridiculous. This place has gotten really toxic lately.

First Draisaitl was fat and lazy, and now Klefbom lacks a brain and is faking injury. Jesus christ.

I know the team is awful and it sucks, but lets try and be a little more reasonable here maybe ?

Kinda funny also to see so many people rail against Chia for his trades, but the people themselves are ready to move on from guys like Drai and Klef as soon as they hit a slump (in both cases related to injury nonetheless), regardless of how good they've proved to be when they're at their best.

This is complete fabrication. Who wants to move on from Draisaitl and Klefbom? I think one person on the whole board might have stated something like that.

All I asked for is reasonably reply. In the eyes of those that say Klefbom is "our best D: or a "near elite D" what is making him so. Is this being stated purely on the basis of 38pts last season? Tom Gilbert had 46pts here one season and was a lot more gifted offensively than anything I've seen from Klefbom. Nobody was talking about Gilbert as a best D or near elite D.

So far it just seems like a faction of posters that figure Klefbom is a great D. So substantiate the view. This is a discussion board, I'm prepared to have the discussion.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If his shoulder issue requires surgery they need to shut him down now and have him get it dealt with. I will be beyond pissed if they let him play to the end of the season and then he misses the first 2-4 months of the next season.

 

[LaGu]

Why do people still insist there is some "injury"? His issues are strictly mental-he's making poor decisions game in game out.

Honestly, with regards to your last point, I don't know what's worse?
-Waiting it out on Klefbom to figure it out while the team suffers his good for 1 goals against per game rate
or
-Chia making a move

So a player with a bad shoulder playing on meds and getting injections can not be considered to have (had) an injury???

Am I missing something here, are people assuming that he is lying? And that the TM is lying?

That the problems led to issues related to his head is pretty self evident and also acknowledged by himself several times in the ectracts I posted above and also by TM:
KLEF: “If I’m not 100 per cent, I have to find a way to play better. Like I said, no excuses.” “Then you get games where you’re a minus-2 or a minus-3. If you start looking at the stats and you see how many goals you’re on the ice for against, you start saying, ‘What am I doing bad here?’ And it gets worse and worse." “But when it’s bad, it goes really bad"

TM (end november): "his confidence is st an all time low" "the only way out of it is for Oscar to play himself out of it"

It is too bad that this has gotten to his head, but there it is now and I agree, it is on him to get out of it. But to go on about how much of a dim wit/stupid etc etc is borderline offensive in my opinion. When a player loses confidence they often deterioate in decision making, which for a D looks stupid and fir goalies it csn look like they lost the "fundamentals" of the game (as with Talbot).

If you cannot see that right now Klefbom is playing at a lower level than he ever has since entering the league I don't know what to tell you. If you cannot see the immense difference beteween how he played last year and this year, or even the year before last... And I am actually one of those who likes Larsson better and saw the very good effect he had on Klefbom last year, but it takes two to tango and the difference between Klefbom 16/17 and 17/18 is much more than Larsson.

 

[LaGu]

What was said about his shoulder was that it became very sore from time to time, generally following physical contact such as getting hit. That woyld affect a D man since they need to be able to take hits and play physicsl without getting injections after every one of them.

I would also question (which I have) what this is and why it came back after a full summer's rest. I imagine we'll know more once the season is done (i.e. no more games to play, I know it is already done).

 

[Zaddy]

This is complete fabrication. Who wants to move on from Draisaitl and Klefbom? I think one person on the whole board might have stated something like that.

All I asked for is reasonably reply. In the eyes of those that say Klefbom is "our best D: or a "near elite D" what is making him so. Is this being stated purely on the basis of 38pts last season? Tom Gilbert had 46pts here one season and was a lot more gifted offensively than anything I've seen from Klefbom. Nobody was talking about Gilbert as a best D or near elite D.

So far it just seems like a faction of posters that figure Klefbom is a great D. So substantiate the view. This is a discussion board, I'm prepared to have the discussion.

There's been plenty of people suggesting we trade Klefbom lately, and same for Drai when he was struggling after coming back from his concussion. So no it's not complete fabrication.

And you saying "all I asked for is reasonable reply" is pretty funny to me as you also said "What injury?" in regards to Klefbom. Either you're missing a lot of pieces in this discussion or you're just ignoring it on purpose. That's not what I would call "reasonable" and it's also tough to have a good discussion with you when you make posts like the one you made in that other thread that I quoted. Your take in that thread was not very reasonable either.

 

[Drivesaitl]

There's been plenty of people suggesting we trade Klefbom lately, and same for Drai when he was struggling after coming back from his concussion. So no it's not complete fabrication.

And you saying "all I asked for is reasonable reply" is pretty funny to me as you also said "What injury?" in regards to Klefbom. Either you're missing a lot of pieces in this discussion or you're just ignoring it on purpose. That's not what I would call "reasonable" and it's also tough to have a good discussion with you when you make posts like the one you made in that other thread that I quoted. Your take in that thread was not very reasonable either.

Fair enough, and thank you. Admitted. I'm missing information, I'm frustrated with the team as well. We all have reactions to frustration of the team and I think its unfortunate if we chew each others heads off in response to how the team is playing.

I've already made disclosure further to having discussion. I am not an advanced stat guy, at all, and do not subscribe to corsi based metrics. I question their value. I assess visually by watching all of the games and replaying all sequences of note and attending to basic GF/ GA type metrics being that goals, not shots, is the basis of hockey.

I've already explained why the injury information is unclear. I was just asking for more information pertaining to the injury if anybody had it. I was not stating that there was no injury, just odd that the initial injury was allegedly in in the 2017 playoffs and bothering him since (this being most of what I could obtain online) I don't read the injury update thread here regularly. I don't find that the team or the NHL releases much information and thus why I don't attend to it a lot.

I'm not a lets trade all these players type of fan. I think one of the Oilers chief problems has been a lack of roster stability. I disclose that so that we can have better dialog.

Next disclosure is Klefbom is not on my core. I don't see him as a primary defender. its going to take more than a simple shot suppression or corsi by proxy possession metric to substantiate that he is a best D, or elite defender. It is not unreasonable to state that. its inconclusive to cite possession shot based metrics without a view to actual on ice goal results, with the latter being more salient and real hockey results.

Finally, I don't think I do have a complete bead on Klefboms game. I acknowledge I could be missing something. But that's why we ask right. we ask other fans if they can inform us more about the player. I know for instance Drai's game innately, I comprehend it, what he;s doing well out there shift to shift and game to game. I share those observations and many other player observations in detail. Whats wrong with asking the same regarding Klefbom? I don't see the detailed dialog regarding Klefbom on what attributes he is bringing.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If his shoulder issue requires surgery they need to shut him down now and have him get it dealt with. I will be beyond pissed if they let him play to the end of the season and then he misses the first 2-4 months of the next season.

Exactly Bryan. As Oilers fans we've seen way too much of this. Everything that I'm trying to dig up on this is telling me that the shoulder injury stems from 2017 playoffs and all complications being related to that initial injury including infections. So that its already been a long time and potentially impacting his play. This already seems to be a case of the team seeing how the injury progressing vs addressing the injury.

Could it be that a team that knew it was already going to be without Sekera was just hoping this shoulder problem with Klefbom would go away? they didn't want two players on the mend at the same time? I don't know, just surmising.

Something isn't making sense with all this. I wish we had better, and more detailed injury info to go on.

 

[LaGu]

nobody said faking injury. Why are people so upset here today and yesterday?

If the injury is so significant, and information I've searched on it reveals he's been having problems with his shoulder since 2017 playoffs then why did he not get it dealt with then? If its so significant. I mean how much and how long is this going to be significantly impacting his play?


I'm astounded that some people feel Klefbom was the Oilers best D last season. That's hyperbole. I've asked for substantiation of that view and of course got nothing in response.

The first thing a D should be able to do in my book is defend and make good sound decisions doing that. Klefbom fails that basic tenet on a regular basis. That's my starting point for D, that they defend well. Klefbom doesn't get out of the blocks on that metric. His GA is consistently high EV.

Ah ok, that was my impression of what was said but English is my second langaue so sometimes I misunderstand.

Anyhow, I just look at last year, and before that, and homestly even his rookie year and I see a better player than this year.

 

[nabob]

No real evidence Klefbom can play hockey.
The winning goal last night was mostly on his woeful play at the blue line.
He is as dumb as Nurse when it comes to being an NHL defenceman.
Trading him would be a mercy, but only after Chiarelli is fired.

So you're saying he is a smart NHL Dman?

Because the whole "Nurse has a low hockey IQ" narrative is not even repeated by his biggest haters anymore. Only those who are extremely ignorant.

 

[nabob]

Exactly Bryan. As Oilers fans we've seen way too much of this. Everything that I'm trying to dig up on this is telling me that the shoulder injury stems from 2017 playoffs and all complications being related to that initial injury including infections. So that its already been a long time and potentially impacting his play. This already seems to be a case of the team seeing how the injury progressing vs addressing the injury.

Could it be that a team that knew it was already going to be without Sekera was just hoping this shoulder problem with Klefbom would go away? they didn't want two players on the mend at the same time? I don't know, just surmising.

Something isn't making sense with all this. I wish we had better, and more detailed injury info to go on.

When I tore my labrum it wasn't something that "needed" surgery. I was still able to work and do most things through pain. But I'm no NHL hockey player and needed a paycheck.

I'm with BBO and would be beyound pissed if he misses time next season recovering from an injury which he had before this one even began.

 

[Zaddy]

Fair enough, and thank you. Admitted. I'm missing information, I'm frustrated with the team as well. We all have reactions to frustration of the team and I think its unfortunate if we chew each others heads off in response to how the team is playing.

I've already made disclosure further to having discussion. I am not an advanced stat guy, at all, and do not subscribe to corsi based metrics. I question their value. I assess visually by watching all of the games and replaying all sequences of note and attending to basic GF/ GA type metrics being that goals, not shots, is the basis of hockey.

I've already explained why the injury information is unclear. I was just asking for more information pertaining to the injury if anybody had it. I was not stating that there was no injury, just odd that the initial injury was allegedly in in the 2017 playoffs and bothering him since (this being most of what I could obtain online) I don't read the injury update thread here regularly. I don't find that the team or the NHL releases much information and thus why I don't attend to it a lot.

I'm not a lets trade all these players type of fan. I think one of the Oilers chief problems has been a lack of roster stability. I disclose that so that we can have better dialog.

Next disclosure is Klefbom is not on my core. I don't see him as a primary defender. its going to take more than a simple shot suppression or corsi by proxy possession metric to substantiate that he is a best D, or elite defender. It is not unreasonable to state that. its inconclusive to cite possession shot based metrics without a view to actual on ice goal results, with the latter being more salient and real hockey results.

Finally, I don't think I do have a complete bead on Klefboms game. I acknowledge I could be missing something. But that's why we ask right. we ask other fans if they can inform us more about the player. I know for instance Drai's game innately, I comprehend it, what he;s doing well out there shift to shift and game to game. I share those observations and many other player observations in detail. Whats wrong with asking the same regarding Klefbom? I don't see the detailed dialog regarding Klefbom on what attributes he is bringing.

This was a much more reasonable post. I don't think Klefbom is an elite defender either but I do think he was the best d-man on the Oilers last year and for a long time has shown the most promise and ability on the Oilers blueline in the past couple of years. With that being said I don't think he was far and away the best Oilers D last year, he had some pretty good competition from Larsson and Sekera, with the latter in particular being the Oilers best d-man in my mind in the first two months or so of the season before Larsson and Klefbom got comfortable with each other and started playing REALLY well together, with Klefbom being straight up dominant on some nights, shutting down opposition and creating offense.

I have followed Klefbom for many years and frankly I think anyone who has followed Klefbom since he became an Oiler should be familiar with him and his overall ability as well. I think if you look at it objectively with the prior 4-5 seasons in mind, you can quite clearly see that this season is an outlier and not at all representative of Oscars overall hockey ability. With the injury in mind and the fact that his confidence is probably at an all-time that to me is a much more logical explanation of his poor play this year rather than that he's always been incredibly dumb, lack a brain and just is a terrible player (or whatever else people have been suggesting lately).

Also something that struck me reading OP is that Klef seems to be a very emotional person who wears his heart on his sleeve. I think last year when everything went right for him he was at an incredible high and just in that "flow", whereas this year it's the exact opposite. When he is at the top of his game he is great but he just seems to lose confidence easily and that's something that he needs to work on. Hiring a sports psychologist could possibly help with that and help him become a more consistent player. I think what people are quick to forget, especially on these boards, is that these people are humans just like us and some guys deal with setbacks and distractions better than others.

And another thing that I've mentioned many times in the past is that sports is almost all psychological at this level. When everything is going smooth you're in a flow state of mind, you don't think, you just act and it works wonderfully. But when things aren't good you overanalyze and overthink everything that you do. That stuff is really hard to get out of. There's science behind this stuff too and you can look it up, but really all one needs to do is take a look at what Vegas are doing this year to realize just how powerful the psychological aspect truly is in sport.

 

[Zaddy]

Exactly Bryan. As Oilers fans we've seen way too much of this. Everything that I'm trying to dig up on this is telling me that the shoulder injury stems from 2017 playoffs and all complications being related to that initial injury including infections. So that its already been a long time and potentially impacting his play. This already seems to be a case of the team seeing how the injury progressing vs addressing the injury.

Could it be that a team that knew it was already going to be without Sekera was just hoping this shoulder problem with Klefbom would go away? they didn't want two players on the mend at the same time? I don't know, just surmising.

Something isn't making sense with all this. I wish we had better, and more detailed injury info to go on.

Yes, this is what I think most likely happened. Team couldn't afford the teams two best LHD's being out for an extended time. I think Klefbom healed up over the summer but his injury was aggravated in preseason (if I recall correctly), but feeling the pressure of not wanting to let the team down when they just had an amazing year, he decided to try and play through it, going on meds and/or injections. That's what I believe went down anyway. Hopefully this will be cleared up sooner rather than later. Either way as I said before in the IR thread, I hate how most sports teams handle injuries like these. If you're not close to 100% you shouldn't play, no matter if the player himself insists that he is "fine".

 

[Drivesaitl]

Thanks man, not much in specifics but I agree with area wherein confidence and psychological belief impacts. Visualization strategy is real. it works. Players like Doughty visualize exactly how they deal with situations before they handle them. They think out solutions constantly. They adapt, they look at hockey, and hockey plays analytically. They also use a lot of pattern recognition as do chess grand masters. They recognize dangers and opportunities immediately as player position in a sense is akin to pieces on a chess board. gretz thought the game this way as well, analytically.

I can't agree with your assessment of Klef being the best D as I put a prority on defenders defending. Thus on goal prevention first and foremost, not just goal creation (which I question that Klef alone does in anycase) Larsson last season, and Nurse this season are much better at limiting EV GA/60mins. Its really not even close. But I also factor in outscoring. Klef's on ice differentials are rarely better than say a Larsson or a Nurse. Klef is better at shot generation but I've already stated tht is misleading in that he is being instructed to shoot everything. Thus that goal of shooting distorts the shot related information.

You know that as a fan we don't all comprehend the play of all players. WE key on certain players, multiples, on units, or at least I do. I do key on EVERY goal situation and replay goals and scoring opportunities for and against to see what transpired. I don't trust real time assessment alone. I backward analyze the plays starting from the previous face off in a lot of instances. heh, I tend to watch games alone or with the wife. it drives people nuts that I'm constantly replaying plays like I'm Roger Neilson. heh

cheers

 

[Drivesaitl]

So you're saying he is a smart NHL Dman?

Because the whole "Nurse has a low hockey IQ" narrative is not even repeated by his biggest haters anymore. Only those who are extremely ignorant.

How about he's making really bad hockey decisions every game this season? heh

Theres no inference addendum in that. Albeit could be argued to be a generalization.

But man he perplexes me.

 

[nabob]

N

How about he's making really bad hockey decisions every game this season? heh

Theres no inference addendum in that. Albeit could be argued to be a generalization.

But man he perplexes me.

No doubt that he is also doing that a lot as well.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

With the playoffs completely out of the picture, Klefbom should be benched if it's something he needs to heal from. If that doesn't happen there's two options: 1. resting/surgery won't actually solve the problem or 2. the oilers org is incompetent.

 

[oobga]

If his shoulder issue requires surgery they need to shut him down now and have him get it dealt with. I will be beyond pissed if they let him play to the end of the season and then he misses the first 2-4 months of the next season.

I honestly wonder if he should have had surgery last summer, but the Oilers org convinced him to try to rehab it back without surgery instead because they were already going to be missing Sek. Just seems like an Oilers thing to do.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I honestly wonder if he should have had surgery last summer, but the Oilers org convinced him to try to rehab it back without surgery instead because they were already going to be missing Sek.

No idea, but if so he may harbor some resentment towards the team.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Exactly Bryan. As Oilers fans we've seen way too much of this. Everything that I'm trying to dig up on this is telling me that the shoulder injury stems from 2017 playoffs and all complications being related to that initial injury including infections. So that its already been a long time and potentially impacting his play. This already seems to be a case of the team seeing how the injury progressing vs addressing the injury.

Could it be that a team that knew it was already going to be without Sekera was just hoping this shoulder problem with Klefbom would go away? they didn't want two players on the mend at the same time? I don't know, just surmising.

Something isn't making sense with all this. I wish we had better, and more detailed injury info to go on.

I'd take it one step further, that maybe why Russel had Chia over a barrel. Even if so, would it have killed us to add another veteran LHD on the cheap? Hell Auvitu should be getting Klefbom's minutes right now. He needs to be shut down STAT. I hope that Larsson is able to heal up in his time of mourning because he clearly hasn't been 100% either.

 

[oobga]

No idea, but if so he may harbor some resentment towards the team.

I'd have to expect it was at least a viable alternative to rehab, I think lots of guys pick to avoid surgery and go as long as they can until there is no choice but surgery. Nuge played for us since Juniors I think he said with a lingering shoulder injury until it was finally hanging by a thread.

If that was the case though, it certainly did not seem to pay off to try to play through it. His shot was nothing like last year to start this season, he was avoiding contact like crazy, and his confidence has cratered. I think he claimed he is 100% again, but it's likely gonna take him a summer to get his game back together now, and hopefully there is no lingering shoulder condition that is going to easy break him again.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'd take it one step further, that maybe why Russel had Chia over a barrel. Even if so, would it have killed us to add another veteran LHD on the cheap? Hell Auvitu should be getting Klefbom's minutes right now. He needs to be shut down STAT. I hope that Larsson is able to heal up in his time of mourning because he clearly hasn't been 100% either.

Auvitu has been reasonable answer for us, right? So has Davidson. I don't understand the player usage of this team other than McLellan playing favorites.

I honestly think Auvitu is also caught up in Coach/Manager politics. A them i'm detecting is mcLellan specifically either not playing some Chia recruits or playing them out of position whether they be wingers or D. Its interesting. I think Mclellan is exhibiting a really stubborn mentality in regards to players, schemes, lines, units, who is dressing etc.

I've resisted the fire the coach response throughout but I'm really frustrated with this guy. I think he had his place as a transition coach to take us out of the dark ages. But his time is past. We need a better hockey mind that is capable of more fluid thinking. Mclellan is really bad at game management, adjustments, and altering plans and getting the most out of players. If one is looking at him as well he's gone from starting out as a reasonable player type coach, exuding positivity to someone tha looks pissed and grumpy all the time. He's burned out. He's done all he can here imo.

 

[McDNicks17]

I don't buy the injury excuse.

None of his struggles stem from something physical.

He's somehow forgot how to play defense at even the most basic level. Bad passes, bad reads, bad pinches. Just a bad hockey player.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Auvitu has been reasonable answer for us, right? So has Davidson. I don't understand the player usage of this team other than McLellan playing favorites.

I honestly think Auvitu is also caught up in Coach/Manager politics. A them i'm detecting is mcLellan specifically either not playing some Chia recruits or playing them out of position whether they be wingers or D. Its interesting. I think Mclellan is exhibiting a really stubborn mentality in regards to players, schemes, lines, units, who is dressing etc.

I've resisted the fire the coach response throughout but I'm really frustrated with this guy. I think he had his place as a transition coach to take us out of the dark ages. But his time is past. We need a better hockey mind that is capable of more fluid thinking. Mclellan is really bad at game management, adjustments, and altering plans and getting the most out of players. If one is looking at him as well he's gone from starting out as a reasonable player type coach, exuding positivity to someone tha looks pissed and grumpy all the time. He's burned out. He's done all he can here imo.

Agreed. I know that it's the popular opinion that Chia needs to be turfed, however I'd like to see a coaching change first because at least IMO, Todd is not getting the most out of our players or putting them in the best positions to succeed. Nurse showed glimpses of high level offense awhile back, got a game (maybe?) on the top PP unit and has been on the 2nd unit since. Davidson and Auvitu have been good depth adds. There would be nothing wrong with playing Auvitu on the 3rd pairing and giving him PP minutes and offensive zone starts while Klefbom is clearly not getting the job done.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I honestly wonder if he should have had surgery last summer, but the Oilers org convinced him to try to rehab it back without surgery instead because they were already going to be missing Sek. Just seems like an Oilers thing to do.

AS per guidelines a team can not instruct a player to have surgery. As I understand it an employer cannot force any employee to have any medical procedure or surgery. This extends of course to professional players. In a lot of instances where there is hesitation to have procedures done this can emanate from the players decision as well.

Don't want to play doctor here but with Klefboms history of post op complications and infections he might have had concerns with having more medical treatments and might be averse to the same. I mean this guy has had several nightmare complications and infections in that regard. If I'm him I don't even want to be walking by a hospital...There might even be medical precautions and contraindications based on his known post op infection history. Many patients are considered not able to have surgery until other conditions are satisfactorily resolved. its all plausible.

In anycase we all just be guessing.