Kitchener Rangers 2019-20 Season Thread

[Gondrex]

All those kids you mentioned are evidence of a very strong 02/03 group of young players. All the more reason to focus on that group as the nucleus of a contender. Starting next year IMO. They’ll be in their third and second year respectively and getting better and better.

.....and that solid core of young players begs the question....did this team bleed away valuable assets in vain when the could have been focussing on the future instead? I agree with Bobber. This team is more than a tweak away from being a serious contender - IMO. In many cases contending teams are older too, or trade (young players) to get older for a serious run. Perhaps that is what MM is gearing up for.

 

[bobber]

When you look at the spending the Storm did last season it shows just how much you have to spend to really contend. Still it does not guarantee you will win in the end.
Remember the Storm had a full cupboard to be able to accomplish what they achieved.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

When you look at the spending the Storm did last season it shows just how much you have to spend to really contend. Still it does not guarantee you will win in the end.
Remember the Storm had a full cupboard to be able to accomplish what they achieved.

The Storm spent next to nothing on their biggest acquisitions in Suzuki and Durzi in comparison to other trades for players of that calibre. They also had to make more trades than average because they felt the need to deal one of their biggest pieces in Merkley, and then had to replace him on top of adding to their core.

MM's mission statement was to be competitive every year, trying to get closer to the London model everyone here obsesses over...but anything less than a complete sell off or all in ends in dissapointed reactions here in my experience (even though London often isn't either-or).

On the positive side.....Pinelli is a gem and is one of our top scorers

He is! And I remember how disappointed everyone was that the team had a hot streak at the end leaving us with the 12th overall pick because the difference between the quality of player we were going to get at 6 was going to be substantial, thus hindering our future.

To have been able to make several key trades to go on a run that left us a single goal away from playing in the championship, and still have a high quality young core from the following draft(s) is pretty impressive imo (and much better than in the past).

 

[EvenSteven]

When you look at the spending the Storm did last season it shows just how much you have to spend to really contend. Still it does not guarantee you will win in the end.
Remember the Storm had a full cupboard to be able to accomplish what they achieved.

Guelph spent what they did because they had an abundance of assets that allowed them to do so. Also, it made perfect sense to go all in as they did because they had a very strong group of 18 and 19 year olds to begin with.

Stan Butler said years ago in dealing for Cory Emmerton in a deadline deal: “It isn’t a steep price if you have the extra picks in the bank.” That was the philosophy that Guelph went by last year and other teams in year’s past. Accumulate assets and it’s easy to pay big prices.

Conversely, this year, we don’t have anywhere close to the assets Guelph had and nowhere near the quality 18 and 19 year olds.

We’re in a bind if you ask me.

 

[bobber]

Guelph spent what they did because they had an abundance of assets that allowed them to do so. Also, it made perfect sense to go all in as they did because they had a very strong group of 18 and 19 year olds to begin with.

Stan Butler said years ago in dealing for Cory Emmerton in a deadline deal: “It isn’t a steep price if you have the extra picks in the bank.” That was the philosophy that Guelph went by last year and other teams in year’s past. Accumulate assets and it’s easy to pay big prices.

Conversely, this year, we don’t have anywhere close to the assets Guelph had and nowhere near the quality 18 and 19 year olds.

We’re in a bind if you ask me.

This was actually the point I was trying to get across with the Storm post. You have to have a bunch of assets especially 2nds to compete for the top skilled players in trades. Then find a willing partner with such players that would want some young skilled prospects in return along with the 2nds and 3rds. There are just so many variables that a GM has to look at if he decides to go all in. I find just trying to stay competitive can put a team into a bind. Sometimes you think you have all the marbles and you still lose the game.

 

[Jives]

Staying competitive every year is so stupid at the OHL level. You have to take down years to build the cupboard for years to go for it. IMO 2 years from now the Rangers could of made a serious run both years if this year was a sell year.

Ingham, Damiani, yantsis, meirles, hawel and Vuk. I see about 20 2nd / 3rd round draft picks plus a solid young player back if we are to sell. Plus the 2nd and 3rds we already have. This would set this team up for a HUGE couple years when are 16 / 17 year olds are the older players in the league.

nobody remembers teams that are competitive. People remember the banners you hang in the rafters.

 

[bobber]

Staying competitive every year is so stupid at the OHL level. You have to take down years to build the cupboard for years to go for it. IMO 2 years from now the Rangers could of made a serious run both years if this year was a sell year.

Ingham, Damiani, yantsis, meirles, hawel and Vuk. I see about 20 2nd / 3rd round draft picks plus a solid young player back if we are to sell. Plus the 2nd and 3rds we already have. This would set this team up for a HUGE couple years when are 16 / 17 year olds are the older players in the league.

nobody remembers teams that are competitive. People remember the banners you hang in the rafters.

This is kind of what Owen Sound did last season and they aren't too bad this season.

 

[EvenSteven]

Staying competitive every year is so stupid at the OHL level. You have to take down years to build the cupboard for years to go for it. IMO 2 years from now the Rangers could of made a serious run both years if this year was a sell year.

Ingham, Damiani, yantsis, meirles, hawel and Vuk. I see about 20 2nd / 3rd round draft picks plus a solid young player back if we are to sell. Plus the 2nd and 3rds we already have. This would set this team up for a HUGE couple years when are 16 / 17 year olds are the older players in the league.

nobody remembers teams that are competitive. People remember the banners you hang in the rafters.

Suppose we decide to sell. It’d be pretty hard to sell off two years worth of graduating assets between now and the deadline (that may or may not have been what you meant).
So perhaps we focus on selling this year’s graduating assets. The three OA’s and Damiani. We do so with the possibility of contending next year. I can live with hanging onto Ingham. He would give us solid goalkeeping here on out this year. And if he returned for an OA season, we’re golden.

I’ve said in the past, the return for quality OA’s is usually two 2nds and a 3rd. We should expect that return at the minimum for our three. We paid that for Hawel and he’s worth the same now. Meireles (97 pts) and Yantsis (50 goals) are worth that and more.

Damiani? I have him comparable to Entwhistle but with a lot more offensive capability. Guelph paid two 2nds and three 3rds for Entwhistle. Damiani is worth that plus.

Worst case scenario, we get two 2nds and one 3rd for the OA’s and the Entwhistle return for Damiani. That brings in a minimum of eight 2nds and six 3rds. That would give us more than enough (eleven 2nds and 15 thirds) to go into next season with which to build a contender.

Next year, the OHL is Memorial Cup host. It’ll likely be hosted in the east. That means the western finalist likely is guaranteed a berth.

No reason we can’t aim to be that finalist. Sure we only have one high end 01 in Vukojovic. Though there is good value in Petizian and Stepien. But our 02 group would be in their third year of eligibility and that much better. The 03 group would be in their NHL draft year. We’d have the assets to bring in more veteran help.

The only issue is, can we find landing spots this year for our graduating vets? It’s not always easy to move OA’s - especially when many teams are already set in that area. But we have high end OA’s. They’d be an upgrade on many of the OA’s around the league.

 

[Mein Yak]

I understand where people are coming form about how this year and how we should sell however, have we lost hope in MM. MM has proved that he can build a championship team with out having a top 10 pick in the draft for the last 5 years. Plus you look at who he took in this years 4th round with 2 committing and looking to be good players in this league (given it has not been a whole season). If we can keep 1 3rd and both of our 4ths in this years draft I would feel fine. I trust in MM be able to compete this year and also in 2021-2022 season.

 

[bobber]

I understand where people are coming form about how this year and how we should sell however, have we lost hope in MM. MM has proved that he can build a championship team with out having a top 10 pick in the draft for the last 5 years. Plus you look at who he took in this years 4th round with 2 committing and looking to be good players in this league (given it has not been a whole season). If we can keep 1 3rd and both of our 4ths in this years draft I would feel fine. I trust in MM be able to compete this year and also in 2021-2022 season.

MM is doing fine. There aren't a lot of GMs doing any better IMO. In the OHL a GM has to be sure when it's worth taking a shot without setting the team back four years or so. It's not an easy thing to build a championship squad.

 

[EvenSteven]

I understand where people are coming form about how this year and how we should sell however, have we lost hope in MM. MM has proved that he can build a championship team with out having a top 10 pick in the draft for the last 5 years. Plus you look at who he took in this years 4th round with 2 committing and looking to be good players in this league (given it has not been a whole season). If we can keep 1 3rd and both of our 4ths in this years draft I would feel fine. I trust in MM be able to compete this year and also in 2021-2022 season.

I’m sorry, But I don’t see it. He has not proven that he can put together a championship team yet. If you’re talking about our team in 17–18, we went into that season with a roster in a lot better shape in the way of higher end vets than this year’s and with a lot more assets in the way of high draft picks.

Mascherin. Bunnaman. Hall. Meireles. Hugg. Liska. Garreffa. That’s a group of six pretty good 18-19 year olds with which to build on. Not to mention a gem 17 year old in Damiani.

He traded for Stanley. Sherwood. ADB. Smith. Brown. McEneny. Culina. That cost us 1st rounder Grayson Ladd, nine 2nds and four 3rds along with a few lesser picks.

Sure we have a stronger OA group than we had back then, but when you consider it’s cheaper to acquire an OA than a younger player of the same caliber, then it’ll be even harder for MM to bring in comparable help since our OA’s are already set.

We don’t have the veteran roster as a starting point nor the draft pick depth to truly go all in. We have decent 02’s but I don’t see a Byfield or Perfetti among them to step up in place of our lack of 18-19 year olds the way those guys are doing in Sudbury and Saginaw.

We’ve already spent assets on Ingham and Hawel. Sure we brought in the picks for Joey. But are we prepared to move multiple young players along with the picks we have?
We don’t have a non-report we can deal for picks like we did that year (Rippon).

If we’re not prepared to do so, then how are we going to really go all in?

 

[GeoBlue]

Wu and Hasley obviously don’t see the prospect of playing behind a workhorse like Ingham (57 games played last year and 11 of 13 this year) desirable enough to deep six their NCAA eligibility. Especially if he returns for an OA season.

Who could blame them?

From Josh Brown's blog..........

- Goalie Justin Wu was at practice on Tuesday. He drops in once in awhile to workout with the club. The Rangers selected Wu in the sixth round of this year's OHL draft. He hasn't signed with the club but he does have his own website.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I’m sorry, But I don’t see it. He has not proven that he can put together a championship team yet. If you’re talking about our team in 17–18, we went into that season with a roster in a lot better shape in the way of higher end vets than this year’s and with a lot more assets in the way of high draft picks.

Mascherin. Bunnaman. Hall. Meireles. Hugg. Liska. Garreffa. That’s a group of six pretty good 18-19 year olds with which to build on. Not to mention a gem 17 year old in Damiani.

He traded for Stanley. Sherwood. ADB. Smith. Brown. McEneny. Culina. That cost us 1st rounder Grayson Ladd, nine 2nds and four 3rds along with a few lesser picks.

Sure we have a stronger OA group than we had back then, but when you consider it’s cheaper to acquire an OA than a younger player of the same caliber, then it’ll be even harder for MM to bring in comparable help since our OA’s are already set.

We don’t have the veteran roster as a starting point nor the draft pick depth to truly go all in. We have decent 02’s but I don’t see a Byfield or Perfetti among them to step up in place of our lack of 18-19 year olds the way those guys are doing in Sudbury and Saginaw.

We’ve already spent assets on Ingham and Hawel. Sure we brought in the picks for Joey. But are we prepared to move multiple young players along with the picks we have?
We don’t have a non-report we can deal for picks like we did that year (Rippon).

If we’re not prepared to do so, then how are we going to really go all in?

I remember that. I remember people didn't like that pick and said he wasn't going to garner the same value as other first round picks in a trade...things turned out ok there. People also didn't like our 2nd round pick that year in Vukojevic because he might not report. We made all those trades and still had a couple 2nds in the following draft (something people were worried we wouldn't have) and have a pretty good group of 17 year olds as a result (including 3 who had NCAA commitments they gave up to come here). We have enough young players that I wouldn't have an issue trading 1 of them in a deal for the right player.

 

[EvenSteven]

From Josh Brown's blog..........

- Goalie Justin Wu was at practice on Tuesday. He drops in once in awhile to workout with the club. The Rangers selected Wu in the sixth round of this year's OHL draft. He hasn't signed with the club but he does have his own website.

That’s fine. But I’ll feel a whole lot happier if and when his NCAA eligibility is burnt.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

So..........Meireles will not be back for tonight's tilt.....also Sebrango and Hawel. And Pinelli will be away at the Under 17. Now I get keeping Meireles out for another week if he's just about there but not quite. Only one game this weekend. Lots of opportunity for players to step up. Here's hoping!

 

[EvenSteven]

I remember that. I remember people didn't like that pick and said he wasn't going to garner the same value as other first round picks in a trade...things turned out ok there. People also didn't like our 2nd round pick that year in Vukojevic because he might not report. We made all those trades and still had a couple 2nds in the following draft (something people were worried we wouldn't have) and have a pretty good group of 17 year olds as a result (including 3 who had NCAA commitments they gave up to come here). We have enough young players that I wouldn't have an issue trading 1 of them in a deal for the right player.

Yup. Everything worked out pretty good as you say. The only issue is that we didn’t sell to replenish those spent picks after the 17-18 season. Most of the other teams who went all in for that season sold off. Hamilton sold big. So did Kingston.

The problem this time around (should we go all in) is we have no 2nds for the next draft. We only have three to deal and if we deal them along with a young player or two, we’ll go into next year, a sell year, with minimal assets to sell (Vukojovic). We also have 01’s like Petizien and Stepien but they’ll be very good OA’s in 21-22. If we move them, we’ll looking for guys just like them as OA’s a year later.

 

[HockeyPops]

Soo didn't sell after 17-18. We find ourselves is much the same situation as Kitchener as a result, although we are targeting next year not this year. Still, not as many picks as other teams that will also be targeting the same year. We will be paying keen attention to Kitchener's fortunes this season to see what we might be able to do next season.

 

[EvenSteven]

MM's mission statement was to be competitive every year, trying to get closer to the London model everyone here obsesses over...but anything less than a complete sell off or all in ends in dissapointed reactions here in my experience (even though London often isn't either-or).

London certainly does buy and sell large when it’s right to do so. They sold in 2008 allowing them the assets to go all in on JT and MDZ. They sold in 2010 allowing them the assets to trade for Domi. They bought big time in 11-12 and 12-13 for their playoff runs. They sold off McCarron and Mermis after they hosted in 2014.

They sold in 17-18 allowing them the assets to draft four picks in the first three rounds in the 18 draft. It also gave them the assets to go all in this year if they choose to.

For example:
In 17-18 they sold:

Mattenen (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd*).
Carbonnara (4th).
Pu (Dunkley. 2nd. 3rd).
Jones (Popov. 2nd. 3rd).
Thomas (McMicheal. 2nd. 2nd*. 2nd*. 2nd*. 3rd*).

If it’s the London model we want to copy, then we have to go all in when it’s right and sell off when it’s right. It isn’t often they allow a high end asset to graduate in a down year. They allowed Domi to because he wanted to graduate the OHL as a Knight. Otherwise, there was a deal on the table for him too.

Standing pat isn’t in their vocabulary.

 

[EvenSteven]

Soo didn't sell after 17-18. We find ourselves is much the same situation as Kitchener as a result, although we are targeting next year not this year. Still, not as many picks as other teams that will also be targeting the same year. We will be paying keen attention to Kitchener's fortunes this season to see what we might be able to do next season.

It made a lot more sense to not sell last year for the Soo than the Rangers. The Soo had a lot better roster with a lot more high end players. The Rangers, on the other hand, lost most of their major contributors from the 17-18 season to graduation.

Here’s hoping you guys get Hayton back. You’ll need him to help restock your draft pick cupboard.

 

[HockeyPops]

It made a lot more sense to not sell last year for the Soo than the Rangers. The Soo had a lot better roster with a lot more high end players. The Rangers, on the other hand, lost most of their major contributors from the 17-18 season to graduation.

You think so? Here was our top 12 that season:
Frost 112 pts - returned
Katchouk 85 pts - graduated
Raddysh 83 pts - graduated
Gettinger 69 pts - graduated
Kopacka 63 pts - graduated
Verbeek 61 pts - graduated
Hayton 60 pts - returned
Hollowell 56 pts - returned
Sandin 45 pts - graduated
Timmins 41 pts - graduated
Sambrook 39 pts - returned
Carroll 37 pts - graduated

Here was yours:
Mascherin 86 pts - graduated
Garreffa 65 pts - returned
Sherwood 60 pts - graduated
Bunnaman 50 pts - graduated
Brown 48 pts - graduated
Stanley 42 pts - graduated
Damiani 37 pts - returned
Hugg 32 pts - returned
Liska 31 pts - graduated
Smith 30 pts - graduated
Meireles 30 pts - returned
McEneny 30 pts - graduated

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

so there will presumably be 11 forwards and 6 defence tonight. Lines look maybe like this up front:

Valade-Damiani-Yantsis
Stepien-Petizian-McDonnell
Dickerson-Langdon-Serpa
Rupoli- -Fishman

I’m saying 3 centres because they haven’t shown much confidence with Serpa or Fishman taking draws as 4C. gives Langdon some extra ice time to maybe get something rolling offensively as well Petizian who has earned the time

 

[EvenSteven]

You think so? Here was our top 12 that season:
Frost 112 pts - returned
Katchouk 85 pts - graduated
Raddysh 83 pts - graduated
Gettinger 69 pts - graduated
Kopacka 63 pts - graduated
Verbeek 61 pts - graduated
Hayton 60 pts - returned
Hollowell 56 pts - returned
Sandin 45 pts - graduated
Timmins 41 pts - graduated
Sambrook 39 pts - returned
Carroll 37 pts - graduated

Here was yours:
Mascherin 86 pts - graduated
Garreffa 65 pts - returned
Sherwood 60 pts - graduated
Bunnaman 50 pts - graduated
Brown 48 pts - graduated
Stanley 42 pts - graduated
Damiani 37 pts - returned
Hugg 32 pts - returned
Liska 31 pts - graduated
Smith 30 pts - graduated
Meireles 30 pts - returned
McEneny 30 pts - graduated

We didn’t have anyone as high end as Frost or Hayton.

 

[EvenSteven]

so there will presumably be 11 forwards and 6 defence tonight. Lines look maybe like this up front:

Valade-Damiani-Yantsis
Stepien-Petizian-McDonnell
Dickerson-Langdon-Serpa
Rupoli- -Fishman

I’m saying 3 centres because they haven’t shown much confidence with Serpa or Fishman taking draws as 4C. gives Langdon some extra ice time to maybe get something rolling offensively as well Petizian who has earned the time

I’m hoping Langdon sees a lot of ice tonite in all situations. He has some catching up to do. Hoping for big things from him going forward.

 

[OhSheila]

A terrible effort by the Rangers and terrific one by the Attack. They out skated, out worked and played with purpose and focus.

Rupoli and Dickerson are not OHL level players. Both had a chance to step up with key players out and contribute but neither did anything.

Discipline is low. Selfishness is high. Compete level and work ethic was only there for the first 3 minutes of the 3rd.

Two shorthanded goals against? Chris Pope said it best on the post game show. Those on the ice for power play have to work harder the the penalty killers.

I feel for Ingham. At the end of the 2nd Owen Sound had 30 shots. I question the effectiveness of Dennis Wideman as our defensive coach.

At least Damiani owned it by saying he and the team didn't have a good week of practice and it showed. He also said it doesn't matter what he says in the dressing room if he doesn't go out and do what he says on the ice. I expect that he will be a force next Friday night.

Overall players weren't where they needed to be, assignments were missed, passing was way off, no team play, no focus, no heart, no pride.

I know we had 4 players missing, but that doesn't mean you can't put a good effort in and compete.

 

[rangersblues]

Right now I'm not convinced Damiani won't be back as an OA. Miereles was a far more effective player last season.

A lot of work to be done by the whole team overall. Depth is definitely lacking.