Kitchener Rangers 2017-18 Season Thread (Part 1)

[Ward Cornell]

Doubt you are a Ranger Fan. If you were you would know Mascherin had 65 assists. 100 points. Had to be involved in the play with others some where. Sure your not a disgruntled Leaf fan. Terrible post on my opinion.

Not sure where this comes from.
I have a long leash for natural goal scorers and point getters. Not sure if it's in the teams interests to stop these players from producing points. The team had a skill stifling system for a few yrs that never allowed any creativity and the team went no where. Not sure why some players of his ilk gets this type of backlash.....Skinner didn't "engage" and never received this type of posts!

 

[Tim Raines]

I'm also a little tired of the people who get on Mascherin's case. No, he's not the most physically involved player and he doesn't keep his feet moving all the time and has the appearance of laziness at times.

But for one, he is BY FAR the most talented played on the team. When you out-score the next highest teammate by 40 points, you are not the problem. Secondly, I hear people saying he can't pass all the time in my section. If you have ever said that, you need to punch yourself in the head. He is one of the most skilled and deft play-makers the team has ever had. Four or five times a night he threads a needle that maybe a handful of players in the league could do.

Finally, what is the obsession with picking on the top guy? Just about every player on this team has consistent concerns with their game. What kills me are the people who rag on Mascherin but love Garreffa? Maybe it's the old free pass to the small kid, but Joey is so soft on puck battles it's not funny and turns the puck over a ton. I'm not picking on him. It's just completely mind-boggling that people have such ludicrous biases and don't see it.

Adam is a phenomenal, but flawed talent. I urge his detractors to watch a little more closely instead of just getting mad that he turned away from a hit. And when you watch, keep an eye on who is out against him. His match-ups are a hell of a lot tougher than anything the other teammates deal with. Cut him some slack.

 

[plowman]

Originally Posted by Mowman
Trading Mascherin may be more popular than you think. If for one, and many fans I have spoken to, are fed up with him. If he doesn't have the puck on his stick, he doesn't seem to care. I look at him as a "me first" and not a "team firt" type of player.

I know that's a lot of goals to trade away, but it's like watching Bailey all over again, and it annoys me lol
Doubt you are a Ranger Fan. If you were you would know Mascherin had 65 assists. 100 points. To accomplish 100 points on this squad with basically no support after Bracco left is incredible. If some of his line mates were able to pick up the number of passes he made to them and put them in the net he would have gave Dabrincat run. Had to be involved in the play with others some where. Sure your not a disgruntled Leaf fan. Terrible post on my opinion

Obviously a me first player to get 100 pts in the season and be -2 and to be -13 in the playoffs

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Doubt you are a Ranger Fan. If you were you would know Mascherin had 65 assists. 100 points. To accomplish 100 points on this squad with basically no support after Bracco left is incredible. If some of his line mates were able to pick up the number of passes he made to them and put them in the net he would have gave Dabrincat run. Had to be involved in the play with others some where. Sure your not a disgruntled Leaf fan. Terrible post on my opinion.

I agree bobber...except I'm not sure what Leaf fans have to do with it or why they'd be disgruntled about Mascherin .

Mascherin's ability to improve his production from last year and really up his playmaking game while having very little offensive support for half a season was one of the bright spots of the season and one of the more enjoyable things to watch in an otherwise not so great season for the team.

Tim, I agree 100% about his playmaking. As for Gareffa, I think he surprised everyone this year so he tends to get more of a pass from some people as not many expected him to be this good (perhaps a bit of the "shiny newer toy" effect as well). I tend to give Joe's faults a pass right now for similar reasons you (and I) give Mascherin a pass on...although at this point Mascherin is on another level completely than Joe so it's even easier to look past his few short comings.

 

[Mowman]

Originally Posted by Mowman

Doubt you are a Ranger Fan. If you were you would know Mascherin had 65 assists. 100 points. To accomplish 100 points on this squad with basically no support after Bracco left is incredible. If some of his line mates were able to pick up the number of passes he made to them and put them in the net he would have gave Dabrincat run. Had to be involved in the play with others some where. Sure your not a disgruntled Leaf fan. Terrible post on my opinion

Obviously a me first player to get 100 pts in the season and be -2 and to be -13 in the playoffs

HAHA okay man. I've been a season ticket holder for 20 years. Die hard fan! Yes he has 65 assissts, yes he is a great passer, but if you watch the games he dogs it about 1 in every 3 shifts. He tries to deke through everybody, and his effort in the D zone..well...what effort?

Furthermore, a friend of mine is a billet. He tells me all the time some of the players are sour about Adam's attitude.

You are one of those fans that gets lost in the stats. The points don't tell the whole story. Mascherin isn't leading this team anywhere.

Anyways, learn the game man.

 

[Mowman]

I'm also a little tired of the people who get on Mascherin's case. No, he's not the most physically involved player and he doesn't keep his feet moving all the time and has the appearance of laziness at times.

But for one, he is BY FAR the most talented played on the team. When you out-score the next highest teammate by 40 points, you are not the problem. Secondly, I hear people saying he can't pass all the time in my section. If you have ever said that, you need to punch yourself in the head. He is one of the most skilled and deft play-makers the team has ever had. Four or five times a night he threads a needle that maybe a handful of players in the league could do.

Finally, what is the obsession with picking on the top guy? Just about every player on this team has consistent concerns with their game. What kills me are the people who rag on Mascherin but love Garreffa? Maybe it's the old free pass to the small kid, but Joey is so soft on puck battles it's not funny and turns the puck over a ton. I'm not picking on him. It's just completely mind-boggling that people have such ludicrous biases and don't see it.

Adam is a phenomenal, but flawed talent. I urge his detractors to watch a little more closely instead of just getting mad that he turned away from a hit. And when you watch, keep an eye on who is out against him. His match-ups are a hell of a lot tougher than anything the other teammates deal with. Cut him some slack.

I never said he can't pass. I also never said he isn't the most talented. I said he is a me firt player. He just is.

 

[Tim Raines]

I never said he can't pass. I also never said he isn't the most talented. I said he is a me firt player. He just is.

I never said you said that. I said a bunch of people that sit near me constantly say that. It's group-think idiocy.

I don't see him as me-first at all. Me-first players don't get 65 assists. I think he's a bit soft and doesn't have the motor of a guy like Kohn, but that doesn't make him selfish.

 

[Mowman]

I never said you said that. I said a bunch of people that sit near me constantly say that. It's group-think idiocy.

I don't see him as me-first at all. Me-first players don't get 65 assists. I think he's a bit soft and doesn't have the motor of a guy like Kohn, but that doesn't make him selfish.

Oops, you in fact didn't say that I said that. My bad.

Anyways, I have calmed down a bit now. I just get fired up when other people say stuff like "Oh you aren't a Ranger fan." So i went on a posting rage lol. Being a Ranger fan doesn't mean I have to fall in love with every Ranger player.

All I am trying to get across is my opinion. I personally don't see a high assist total meaning that you are a team player. After all, the assist goes into his point total, and I personally view him as a player that only cares about that point total.

He just isn't engaged in the play unless the puck is in the opponents end.

Assists just do not tell the whole story.

 

[SYWTom]

Definitely agree with both sides here. Mascherin leaves a lot to be desired in his defensive play. But you need a player like him in this league. The OHL is about scoring goals more then it is about stopping them. That in my opinion is how junior works.

I know our rebuild seems to be based around 99's and 00's
But I don't see us ignoring the 98s we have, gotta think McKenzie will do everything he can before the season starts to get guys to report and make next years team strong.
If even to build towards the 2 years after

Maybe target 2 year players in trades and not just pure rentals

 

[Tim Raines]

Oops, you in fact didn't say that I said that. My bad.

Anyways, I have calmed down a bit now. I just get fired up when other people say stuff like "Oh you aren't a Ranger fan." So i went on a posting rage lol. Being a Ranger fan doesn't mean I have to fall in love with every Ranger player.

All I am trying to get across is my opinion. I personally don't see a high assist total meaning that you are a team player. After all, the assist goes into his point total, and I personally view him as a player that only cares about that point total.

He just isn't engaged in the play unless the puck is in the opponents end.

Assists just do not tell the whole story.

Oh, you're definitely entitled to your opinion. I'm not attacking you at all. And a lot of what you're saying I agree with. Adam frustrates a lot of Ranger fans with a perceived lack of effort and physical engagement.

I'd say there's no doubt he spends more physical and mental energy on offence, but I'm just not sure I'd go as far as calling him me-first. I think he knows his strengths and that's providing offence - so I think he shelters himself on the ice a bit, which isn't the greatest trait. I just don't think it relates to selfishness.

 

[rangersblues]

Oops, you in fact didn't say that I said that. My bad.

Anyways, I have calmed down a bit now. I just get fired up when other people say stuff like "Oh you aren't a Ranger fan." So i went on a posting rage lol. Being a Ranger fan doesn't mean I have to fall in love with every Ranger player.

All I am trying to get across is my opinion. I personally don't see a high assist total meaning that you are a team player. After all, the assist goes into his point total, and I personally view him as a player that only cares about that point total.

He just isn't engaged in the play unless the puck is in the opponents end.

Assists just do not tell the whole story.

What you said doesn't make Mascherin a "me first" player. It makes him an offense first player. Would I like a team filled with Mascherins? Could we win with a team full of Mascherins? I'd sure like to give it a try. We'd have a lot better chance than winning with 12 forwards who hustle in both ends of the rink and put up 6 goals and 12 assists all year. It would be entertaining, which is apparently the goal of the ranger franchise.

Like others I simply don't get the fascination some ranger fans get about griping about Mascherin's style. I do wish for his sake he would improve in the defensive end and I think he will under the proper tutelage. If he were putting up 55 points a season I could understand the concern. But for what Mascherin does offensively - c'mon man.

 

[ScoresFromCentre]

What you said doesn't make Mascherin a "me first" player. It makes him an offense first player. Would I like a team filled with Mascherins? Could we win with a team full of Mascherins? I'd sure like to give it a try.

Have any organizations tried this in recent memory? I immediately thought of the 2007-2008 Oshawa Generals with McLean, Parnham, Tavares, Baker et al. Looking it up now, they scored 290 goals and allowed 262 while finishing with 89 points. That's league-best scoring and a ton of goals against for a contender in the modern OHL. Perhaps some of the more one-dimensional London teams would fit this bill as well.

Anyway, cool hypothetical, RB.

 

[Millpond]

Trading Mascherin may be more popular than you think. If for one, and many fans I have spoken to, are fed up with him. If he doesn't have the puck on his stick, he doesn't seem to care. I look at him as a "me first" and not a "team firt" type of player.

I know that's a lot of goals to trade away, but it's like watching Bailey all over again, and it annoys me lol

Mascherin would look good next season in an Attack uny, he's got family in the area and I bet McGill could make him a legit two way player by Xmas 2018 without sacrificing his numbers

 

[rangersblues]

Have any organizations tried this in recent memory? I immediately thought of the 2007-2008 Oshawa Generals with McLean, Parnham, Tavares, Baker et al. Looking it up now, they scored 290 goals and allowed 262 while finishing with 89 points. That's league-best scoring and a ton of goals against for a contender in the modern OHL. Perhaps some of the more one-dimensional London teams would fit this bill as well.

Anyway, cool hypothetical, RB.

There just aren't enough offensively gifted players to crack today's stiffling defensive systems to even attempt it. For the most part the rangers blue print has followed this defensive philosophy. Take our OAs for example. The past few seasons they consist of 2 shutdown defenseman, and either a goalie or a defensive minded forward. That's the foundation on which this team is based. Hopefully MM provides the players to break out of this rut.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Take our OAs for example. The past few seasons they consist of 2 shutdown defenseman, and either a goalie or a defensive minded forward. That's the foundation on which this team is based. Hopefully MM provides the players to break out of this rut.

Agreed...
Hate to see Henderson(if an OA next season) taking away icetime from a younger player.

 

[EvenSteven]

Mascherin would look good next season in an Attack uny, he's got family in the area and I bet McGill could make him a legit two way player by Xmas 2018 without sacrificing his numbers

Interesting. Let's play!

Any dealing of Mascherin has to obviously bring in a massive return. If we wait until the deadline, your 2017 first rounder has to come our way plus maybe another quality player and certainly picks.

If a deal is to be done in the off season, talks have to start today. So:

Prior to Saturday's draft:
To OS:
Windsor's 2nd rounders in '23 and '24.
Kit's 3rd in 2018.

To Kit:
OS's 2nd in 2017.
Ham's 2nd in 2017.

Then, when the window opens to deal players in the off season:

To OS:
Mascherin

To Kit:
Dudas.
Pryce.
Erie's 2nd in 2018.
Erie's 2nd in 2019.

Some Ranger fans may not think that the return for Mascherin in this deal may not be enough. But I contend that swapping out the second rounders in the first half of the deal is huge.

It would give the Rangers three 2nd round picks in the upcoming draft. Those players, along with our 1st rounder, would all be in their NHL draft year during the 2018-19 season - a season I feel the Rangers are hoping to contend.


However, I'm not so sure MacKenzie will want to bail on next season this early - unless he knows the chances are slim to none in any of our drafted prospects reporting next season.

Of course if the chances are high that a few of them report, then all bets are off.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Interesting. Let's play!

Any dealing of Mascherin has to obviously bring in a massive return. If we wait until the deadline, your 2017 first rounder has to come our way plus maybe another quality player and certainly picks.

If a deal is to be done in the off season, talks have to start today. So:

Prior to Saturday's draft:
To OS:
Windsor's 2nd rounders in '23 and '24.
Kit's 3rd in 2018.

To Kit:
OS's 2nd in 2017.
Ham's 2nd in 2017.

Then, when the window opens to deal players in the off season:

To OS:
Mascherin

To Kit:
Dudas.
Pryce.
Erie's 2nd in 2018.
Erie's 2nd in 2019.

Some Ranger fans may not think that the return for Mascherin in this deal may not be enough. But I contend that swapping out the second rounders in the first half of the deal is huge.

It would give the Rangers three 2nd round picks in the upcoming draft. Those players, along with our 1st rounder, would all be in their NHL draft year during the 2018-19 season - a season I feel the Rangers are hoping to contend.


However, I'm not so sure MacKenzie will want to bail on next season this early - unless he knows the chances are slim to none in any of our drafted prospects reporting next season.

Of course if the chances are high that a few of them report, then all bets are off.

In reality for OS to make this trade they would need to solidify the goalkeeping for next yr. I doubt they would give up any solid assets before that!

 

[EvenSteven]

In reality for OS to make this trade they would need to solidify the goalkeeping for next yr. I doubt they would give up any solid assets before that!

So very true!

 

[bobber]

I think us Ranger fans should walk softly and carry a big stick when it comes to discussing moving top assets. We all got excited at the prospects of a boat load of picks and players that Bracco was going to bring to the team. That went over like a lead fart. Lets get the draft over with and see if McKenzie has what it takes to make the changes that fans are screaming for in Kitchener. Rangers staff has not shown they can make deals that really impact the team immediately. Some teams trade top assets and get younger top kids in return and hardly skip a beat. My self I want to see a commitment to changing the identity of the team. Don Cherry calls soft players "sweet hearts". Let's see them toughen up this team and get the fans back into the games again.

 

[EvenSteven]

I think us Ranger fans should walk softly and carry a big stick when it comes to discussing moving top assets. We all got excited at the prospects of a boat load of picks and players that Bracco was going to bring to the team. That went over like a lead fart. Lets get the draft over with and see if McKenzie has what it takes to make the changes that fans are screaming for in Kitchener. Rangers staff has not shown they can make deals that really impact the team immediately. Some teams trade top assets and get younger top kids in return and hardly skip a beat. My self I want to see a commitment to changing the identity of the team. Don Cherry calls soft players "sweet hearts". Let's see them toughen up this team and get the fans back into the games again.

That was a huge lesson learned. All the more reason to determine "who we are" next year a lot earlier than just before the deadline. That's why an off season or very early season Mascherin deal would be preferred to a deal in the last couple days before the deadline. Especially since Mascherin, as was Bracco, is viewed upon by many as a one way forward with defensive liabilities.

In the words of Mike Torchia, "Teams won't win with guys like that."

Easier to get a fair return for a player like this early on I think.

 

[rgrsboom]

What you said doesn't make Mascherin a "me first" player. It makes him an offense first player. Would I like a team filled with Mascherins? Could we win with a team full of Mascherins? I'd sure like to give it a try. We'd have a lot better chance than winning with 12 forwards who hustle in both ends of the rink and put up 6 goals and 12 assists all year. It would be entertaining, which is apparently the goal of the ranger franchise.

Like others I simply don't get the fascination some ranger fans get about griping about Mascherin's style. I do wish for his sake he would improve in the defensive end and I think he will under the proper tutelage. If he were putting up 55 points a season I could understand the concern. But for what Mascherin does offensively - c'mon man.

I have criticized Masherin on here before. A team of Masch's would be OK? How do you propose this team would get the puck out of its own end? His -13 against a pro style OS team in the playoffs says it all. And if he had 68 games at the pace he was on - he would have been nowhere near 100 points. That was a great accomplishment, but for him to take a step forward, he needs to work on other parts of his game, and his compete level. I would rather see him as a plus 30 guy next year who only scores 80 points. That would produce a more successful Ranger season for the team.
He plays the bulk of every power play, and that is where many of his points come from. Our PP went to sleep in the series against the Attack and his point total is way down.
He isn't strong enough, or fast enough to move to the NHL right now. He has also been drafted by a team with a solid group of young forwards now. Good odds he is still in this league when he is an OA.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I have criticized Masherin on here before. A team of Masch's would be OK? How do you propose this team would get the puck out of its own end? His -13 against a pro style OS team in the playoffs says it all. And if he had 68 games at the pace he was on - he would have been nowhere near 100 points. That was a great accomplishment, but for him to take a step forward, he needs to work on other parts of his game, and his compete level. I would rather see him as a plus 30 guy next year who only scores 80 points. That would produce a more successful Ranger season for the team.
He plays the bulk of every power play, and that is where many of his points come from. Our PP went to sleep in the series against the Attack and his point total is way down.
He isn't strong enough, or fast enough to move to the NHL right now. He has also been drafted by a team with a solid group of young forwards now. Good odds he is still in this league when he is an OA.

The odds of the bolded are quite slim. Players of his caliber and draft pedigree rarely play their OA season.

 

[EvenSteven]

Funny Mascherin is the one who get ripped by some on here as a "me-first" player yet it is Bunnaman who had more than double the goals than assists this year and 4 goals 0 assists in the playoffs.

No body says a word. I'm not calling Bunnaman a selfish player, but the stats don't show that Mascherin is either.

 

[EvenSteven]

The odds of the bolded are quite slim. Players of his caliber and draft pedigree rarely play their OA season.

I agree. At worst Mascherin will spend his OA season in the AHL.

 

[bobber]

Torgo is correct. Mascherin would never play an OA year in the OHL. Kid played on a team this season with really no support , mediocre coaching at best , poor goaltending for the most part and no defense yet comes up with a 100 points. Even Dabrincat has flaws but they are covered up by skilled players on his team. When fans start stabbing the best player on the team in the back after the season he had they don't deserve a winner here. Every player on this team was a minus. That is the way it is at the bottom of the barrel. I guess they should trade away all the vets so we can all watch grass grow next season again. I can hardly wait. Also hope they draft a bunch of munchkins next Saturday. No wonder players get pissed off and want to be moved.