Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 3)

[leafs4life94]

Oshawa should be good too, but probably not deep.

Christopolous, Wakely, VanSteensel, LeBlanc(s), Cooke, Romani, Ride, Kennedy, …were not drafted.

Well you know what - that's a damn solid counter argument...

I didn't quite realize how drastically all those NB guys improved this year in terms of points - I knew there was a bump especially for Romani but didn't know it was that massive.

Romani - 23/40/63 -> 58/53/111
Wakely - 30/19/49 -> 39/65/104
Van Steensel - 11/17/28 -> 41/45/86

If we want to be similarly optimistic - breakout expecations could be something like this?

Soto - 25/31/56 -> 40/40/80
McNamara - 10/24/34 -> 20/40/60
Frasca - 15/17/32 -> 35/35/70
Thibodeau - 21/39/60 -> 30/60/90

I think Battaglia should push for 40 goals as well and with my optimistic hat on - Hopkins should be close to PPG.

The Fronts remind of the Leafs in that I get very nervous getting too optimistic - but there's an entire summer left of moves so some of these guys could be gone come August.

 

[dirty12]

Well you know what - that's a damn solid counter argument...

I didn't quite realize how drastically all those NB guys improved this year in terms of points - I knew there was a bump especially for Romani but didn't know it was that massive.

Romani - 23/40/63 -> 58/53/111
Wakely - 30/19/49 -> 39/65/104
Van Steensel - 11/17/28 -> 41/45/86

If we want to be similarly optimistic - breakout expecations could be something like this?

Soto - 25/31/56 -> 40/40/80
McNamara - 10/24/34 -> 20/40/60
Frasca - 15/17/32 -> 35/35/70
Thibodeau - 21/39/60 -> 30/60/90

I think Battaglia should push for 40 goals as well and with my optimistic hat on - Hopkins should be close to PPG.

The Fronts remind of the Leafs in that I get very nervous getting too optimistic - but there's an entire summer left of moves so some of these guys could be gone come August.

Remember all those stating the battalion would need to sell DiVicentis & Nelson because the team graduated too much scoring; and did not have enough disposable picks? Well, that was never going to happen because the battalion were built around the 2003-04. The Frontenacs were built on 2005 born.

 

[ktownfan]

Well you know what - that's a damn solid counter argument...

I didn't quite realize how drastically all those NB guys improved this year in terms of points - I knew there was a bump especially for Romani but didn't know it was that massive.

Romani - 23/40/63 -> 58/53/111
Wakely - 30/19/49 -> 39/65/104
Van Steensel - 11/17/28 -> 41/45/86

If we want to be similarly optimistic - breakout expecations could be something like this?

Soto - 25/31/56 -> 40/40/80
McNamara - 10/24/34 -> 20/40/60
Frasca - 15/17/32 -> 35/35/70
Thibodeau - 21/39/60 -> 30/60/90

I think Battaglia should push for 40 goals as well and with my optimistic hat on - Hopkins should be close to PPG.

The Fronts remind of the Leafs in that I get very nervous getting too optimistic - but there's an entire summer left of moves so some of these guys could be gone come August.

How many games do we have to watch thibodeau shy away from contact, enter the zone on the right side and give it away, He has worn out his welcome with this coach and most fans alike

 

[leafs4life94]

How many games do we have to watch thibodeau shy away from contact, enter the zone on the right side and give it away, He has worn out his welcome with this coach and most fans alike

I 100% agree - my roster prediction a few posts back had him being traded but if he stays, because of his lack of size/200 ft game I'd argue he's one of the most likely to have a large production increase since that's really all he has to his game.

 

[frontsfan67]

Oshawa should be good too, but probably not deep.

Oshawa will be contenders depending on their draft pick situation- im not sure how good that is and who comes back. You’re losing Lockhart and roobroeck for sure. But Ritchie and Sennecke are going to be back, marelli will be back and I believe d’amato will be back as an oa and those are some pretty good players to build around. Not to Luke Torrence will be back, Owen griffin will hopefully for their sake have a better year and breakout season. They got some good pieces. Not sure Osters age but if he’s coming back they gotta be top 3 or 4 coming into the conference.

Christopolous, Wakely, VanSteensel, LeBlanc(s), Cooke, Romani, Ride, Kennedy, …were not drafted.

Wakely will prob get a contract, so will van steensel but not as big of a chance as wakely imo. Christopolous will be gone I believe. So will divinctiis but mcivor clearly is ready to take over the reigns next year anyways. Kinda similar to how divinctiis came in oddly enough- starter hurt or not playing the best, backup plays and earns his spot.

But getting leblanc(s), Romani, ride, Kennedy, Cooke and mcivor back will be good for them. I predict they trade the Leblancs and Romani next year though to start the retool after going for it 3 years in a row.

It doesn’t really matter which number you put on lines Frasca, McNamara, and Hopkins centre. The role they are put in matters more. Maybe Medeima, McNamara, and an OA or 18-19 yr old import can play against other teams top lines; then Frasca and Hopkins can be put in more favourable offensive positions.

Although frasca is a 2 way and smart player, I think we will see a big point jump for him next year playing a full year healthy (hopefully) and the nhl experience. Not to mention working on his game a bit in the off season here. I think he’s the 1C for sure until they make some big trades.

Hopkins looks like he’s primed to break out with atleast 40-50 pts maybe more. Has to stay healthy and work on his game and I’m sure he will be next years battaglia.

McNamara has shown some potential but he’s going to be 19 next year. If he is 19 and the same skill level as guys like Hopkins who would be 2 years younger it makes sense to play the younger player who clearly has more potential to grow. That’s why McNamara kinda gets screwed here and I think he may ask for a trade if he’s not getting the ice time or production he is looking for. Wouldn’t be surprised if he goes to a rebuilding team to be a top 6 maybe top line player and see his production grow.

How many games do we have to watch thibodeau shy away from contact, enter the zone on the right side and give it away, He has worn out his welcome with this coach and most fans alike

He’s obviously not a fan favourite but clearly has some skill. If he works on his iq with his passes and bulks up 15-20 pounds so he doesn’t look 13 out there anymore he may come in and shock a lot of people here. They won’t trade him in the off season if they do end up deciding to do that. They will want to see where he is at come training camp.

 

[dirty12]

The battalion will re-tool for sure. They have too many empty draft slots; and no ‘07-1st, 2nd & ‘08-3, 4 picks to compliment the good group of ‘06s and Ride & Kennedy as probable OAs.

McNamara will be a big and strong 19 yr old. There will be an important role for him to play that Hopkins cannot. McNamara will have to decide if he is up to the task. The same can be said of Medeima. I believe they will.

 

[frontsfan67]

I 100% agree - my roster prediction a few posts back had him being traded but if he stays, because of his lack of size/200 ft game I'd argue he's one of the most likely to have a large production increase since that's really all he has to his game.

100% agree. This is his draft year but he’s one of the oldest in the draft. If he gets selected in one of the later rounds I guarantee next year he’s going to come out and surprise a lot of people. He isn’t like a frasca that is a good 200 foot player. Thibodeaus job is to score- same with battaglia he’s more of a power forward/sniper and thibs id say is more of a sniper.

I think those 2 will score a lot of goals with frasca on the top line dishing it out to them.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see them be one of the top lines in the O’ next year.


I don’t think they’ll have the same offensive output of Romani/wakely/van steensel or goyette/dvorsky/musty but they’ll certainly be right up there.


I expect all of them to get above 75 points- frasca probably the lowest with thibs and battaglia maybe hitting 40 goals a piece.

 

[frontsfan67]

Also Soto and miedema are primed for breakout seasons finally^ I expect them both to be a ppg atleast and whoever is with them whether it’s someone they pick up in a trade, or if it’s Hopkins or McNamara- I fully expect that player to be around a ppg as well. Gonna have 2 real good line with a solid scoring 3rd line with weir on that, one of McNamara or Hopkins and maybe Buttar.

4th line is up in the air sorta. But if they pick up some upgrades you’ll see some of the guys like Buttar pushed to the 4th or with him maybe he goes to the OJHL or GOJHL for a year like weir and velliaris did.

 

[ottsabrefan]

My point was that starting Hopkins as the second-line center and having Malhorta as the third-line center was dumb unless you are rebuilding the team. Personally, I have no idea why you have cav in your lineup

As to Chilliwack, that is an interesting scenario. I'm not sure if you follow hockey out west, but the BCHL is trying to become a league in competition with the WHL. They already have players drafted into the NHL and players playing for NCAA scholarships.

This past season they shredded the AJHL with 5 of the AJ teams quitting during the season and moving to BCHL
They are going to move heaven and earth to get top talent to go to their league to build it's brand.

I am sure promises were made that the CHL can not match

Hopkins was picked 4th overall. As a 17 year old he should be staring on any team with that kind of pedigree.

Malholtra is a top 5 talent, so he could quite possibly be able to handle the 3rd line as well.

 

[ottsabrefan]

My concern is how many of those 19 year olds are high end? Burns and Miedema are the only two that are drafted. Soto, Thibodeau and McNamara could be potential late round picks but if any of them get picked I'd choose Soto.

If Burns can rein in the discipline issues he could be considered elite next year, but unless Miedema has a full season of how he played in the playoffs, Burns is the only that could be seen as elite. I'd much rather have fewer, high end 19 years olds and have to fill in depth as opposed to be missing the high end talent and have to find that. I'm banking on a big year from Hopkins and maybe Weir - although he's a major unknown at the OHL level.

Vaccari is the ultimate x-factor - I don't want to go as far as to say the season hinges on how he does but it's pretty dang close.

I think Oshawa has far and away the inside track to the division with Oster in net and Ritchie/Sennecke up front.

I could see Soto being elite this coming year. He seems ready to break out IMO.

 

[beastintheeast]

100% agree atleast start the kid on second line and see how he does- then later in the year a few months or so go by and there the trade deadline where I’m sure they’d add some players. Hopkins can go to 3C or 2nd line as a W if need be. But he needs to be given the chance especially after how strong his season ended.

Beast you have to take chances on certain players. London does the same and that’s why they get so many people committing. They also get some players that say they don’t want to. That’s the beauty of the draft- it’s a all about the chance or the potential that a player will be great or a player will show up.

London took a chance on William Moore last year and he never showed up. Backfired on them. It doesn’t happen as much to a team like London who had a reputation for being great but no team is safe.

When a kid makes it known that he is signing with a different league and has no interest in playing for your team, it makes no sense to draft him, especially in the first round when players want to play.

What I do not understand, and Ottawa did it last year, is why teams are not interviewing players that they think they are going to draft.

GMs have to make the effort to visit the families and see what they are looking at. One thing Mav knew was if a player would show up and explain to the parents what things were going to be like and what the future for their son was.

Hopkins was picked 4th overall. As a 17 year old he should be staring on any team with that kind of pedigree.

Malholtra is a top 5 talent, so he could quite possibly be able to handle the 3rd line as well.

You can not promise a 3rd line position to a rookie. That needs to be earned.

At best, in Chilliwack, he is going to be 3rd line. At Best

Malhorta is only a top-five talent if he plays in the league. Nyman was considered a better talent. When was he drafted????

This draft had a load of players who were in the top 20 and were already either signed or committed to other leagues. Most teams left them alone.

Imagine drafting a challenger in the first round. Who do you think will have a bigger input in the OHL next year?

 

[ottsabrefan]

When a kid makes it known that he is signing with a different league and has no interest in playing for your team, it makes no sense to draft him, especially in the first round when players want to play.

What I do not understand, and Ottawa did it last year, is why teams are not interviewing players that they think they are going to draft.

GMs have to make the effort to visit the families and see what they are looking at. One thing Mav knew was if a player would show up and explain to the parents what things were going to be like and what the future for their son was.



You can not promise a 3rd line position to a rookie. That needs to be earned.

At best, in Chilliwack, he is going to be 3rd line. At Best

Malhorta is only a top-five talent if he plays in the league. Nyman was considered a better talent. When was he drafted????

This draft had a load of players who were in the top 20 and were already either signed or committed to other leagues. Most teams left them alone.

Imagine drafting a challenger in the first round. Who do you think will have a bigger input in the OHL next year?

I'm not saying gift him a 3rd line centre spot, but with the way the Fronts talk about him (in their discussion for 1st overall), he should be able to handle 3rd line center. Zigomanus was 1st line center his 16 year old rookie year on the best offensive teams this franchise has seen. It isn't a stretch.

 

[frontsfan67]

When a kid makes it known that he is signing with a different league and has no interest in playing for your team, it makes no sense to draft him, especially in the first round when players want to play.

What I do not understand, and Ottawa did it last year, is why teams are not interviewing players that they think they are going to draft.

GMs have to make the effort to visit the families and see what they are looking at. One thing Mav knew was if a player would show up and explain to the parents what things were going to be like and what the future for their son was.

I agree and I’m sure they did their homework with the kid. Cooper seemed surprised he signed the day of the draft when they interviewed him in the paper but was optimistic.

I think what they’re really banking on here is him not reporting but wanting to go to Guelph or some other team. He wouldn’t be playing important minutes here anyways and next year we would have 2 decent first round picks, along with surely a few seconds and a few thirds/fourths acquired in a trade for him.

Imo that’s a pretty good deal for at best a 3rd liner this year. And it’s clear they are going to be going for it here the next 2 years. But especially this season so those picks will be very helpful.

I'm not saying gift him a 3rd line centre spot, but with the way the Fronts talk about him (in their discussion for 1st overall), he should be able to handle 3rd line center. Zigomanus was 1st line center his 16 year old rookie year on the best offensive teams this franchise has seen. It isn't a stretch.

Exactly. I believe Bennett who was drafted 9th overall was a first liner his first year too and next year he really took the league by storm.

Also for recent guys- Jake obrien of the bulldogs I’m pretty sure was first or second line and he is primed for a big year next year as well.

Rookies don’t always have to play on the 4th line if they are immensely talented and play the right way.

 

[ottsabrefan]

I agree and I’m sure they did their homework with the kid. Cooper seemed surprised he signed the day of the draft when they interviewed him in the paper but was optimistic.

I think what they’re really banking on here is him not reporting but wanting to go to Guelph or some other team. He wouldn’t be playing important minutes here anyways and next year we would have 2 decent first round picks, along with surely a few seconds and a few thirds/fourths acquired in a trade for him.

Imo that’s a pretty good deal for at best a 3rd liner this year. And it’s clear they are going to be going for it here the next 2 years. But especially this season so those picks will be very helpful.


Exactly. I believe Bennett who was drafted 9th overall was a first liner his first year too and next year he really took the league by storm.

Also for recent guys- Jake obrien of the bulldogs I’m pretty sure was first or second line and he is primed for a big year next year as well.

Rookies don’t always have to play on the 4th line if they are immensely talented and play the right way.

I was thinking Bennett as well, but didn't mention him since his rookie year team didn't have championship level aspirations.

 

[frontsfan67]

I like what the fronts did with the U18 draft.


Max Shewfelt (LW) 5’10 166

37 pts (19 goals) in 30 games for his U18 club


Also got his teammate Darcy Murphy (G) 6’01 and 150lbs- still 17 doesn’t turn 18 until October 24th (he would be eligible for the 2025 draft I believe) 2.5GAA in 19 games.


3rd pick is John Adlys (LW) who doesn’t turn 17 until sept 30th.


Quite clear what needs to be improved making 2 LW picks and a G pick. in the ohl draft last week we got Buttar (LW) and Betts (G) with our 2 second round picks.

 

[leafs4life94]

Hopefully someone pans out but I'm not gonna hold my breath, not sure they stack up to other teams but the Fronts have only had 3 players play in games, with only 1 (Paul Hughes) having meaningful contributions.

 

[frontsfan67]

.

 

[beastintheeast]

I agree and I’m sure they did their homework with the kid. Cooper seemed surprised he signed the day of the draft when they interviewed him in the paper but was optimistic.

I think what they’re really banking on here is him not reporting but wanting to go to Guelph or some other team. He wouldn’t be playing important minutes here anyways and next year we would have 2 decent first round picks, along with surely a few seconds and a few thirds/fourths acquired in a trade for him.

Imo that’s a pretty good deal for at best a 3rd liner this year. And it’s clear they are going to be going for it here the next 2 years. But especially this season so those picks will be very helpful.


Exactly. I believe Bennett who was drafted 9th overall was a first liner his first year too and next year he really took the league by storm.

Also for recent guys- Jake obrien of the bulldogs I’m pretty sure was first or second line and he is primed for a big year next year as well.

Rookies don’t always have to play on the 4th line if they are immensely talented and play the right way.

The catch to your plan is the contract that he and his agent or dad signed with Chilliwack. Unless there is an out clause he is playing in the BCHL.
They have made no bones about their willingness to go to court to build and ensure the league's viability, including the players'.


You may also know that Nyman is also going to BC, so it is not a one-off. GMs should not be surprised about things like this.

Yes, you get 2 first-round draft picks, your pick next year, and your pick from this year. Which means that you are a year late in the development of a player.

As to any other picks that you get, they are just pie in the sky. As someone pointed out, look how well you did with the players and picks you got for Wright. I am also willing to bet that any picks you do get will be used to trade for a rental player for the last half of the season.

 

[Truthking]

100% agree. This is his draft year but he’s one of the oldest in the draft. If he gets selected in one of the later rounds I guarantee next year he’s going to come out and surprise a lot of people. He isn’t like a frasca that is a good 200 foot player. Thibodeaus job is to score- same with battaglia he’s more of a power forward/sniper and thibs id say is more of a sniper.

I think those 2 will score a lot of goals with frasca on the top line dishing it out to them.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see them be one of the top lines in the O’ next year.


I don’t think they’ll have the same offensive output of Romani/wakely/van steensel or goyette/dvorsky/musty but they’ll certainly be right up there.


I expect all of them to get above 75 points- frasca probably the lowest with thibs and battaglia maybe hitting 40 goals a piece.

If all these guys really do end up producing that much, they’d sure as hell better find a way to tighten up the goals against. Maybe a whole season with Mann will inspire a better structure, but I’m not sure they have the right ingredients to succeed, especially in net.

 

[leafs4life94]

As to any other picks that you get, they are just pie in the sky. As someone pointed out, look how well you did with the players and picks you got for Wright. I am also willing to bet that any picks you do get will be used to trade for a rental player for the last half of the season.

The Wright trade still bugs me - I could be in the minority but I thought that was a massively underwhelming return. Miedema as the centerpiece had been meh but really evolved towards the end of this past year, McCarthy was a nothing add, a 2, a 3, two 4's and a 6. The conditional picks (5 and 6) didn't even end up transferring (assumingly because of Windsor's first round loss last year).

Even though the guys they picked may end up being solid contributors (Weir/Velliaris were the 2nd and 3rd) - it feels like it should've been more.

 

[ScoutLife4]

So, I think its safe to say Maholtra is not reporting now.
I was told this morning he has already made a verbal commitment to a NCAA school after an "unofficial visit" and that's why he has chosen the BCHL route.

I'm not sure how intelligent the ownership group of Kingston is, But this combined with not trading Ludwinski may spell the end for Cooper. -You cannot make 2 mistakes in a row like this in a span of a couple months. (if you ever want to compete anyway)

 

[HockeyPops]

If they can still trade his rights to Guelph they will make out fine with this selection.

 

[ScoutLife4]

If they can still trade his rights to Guelph they will make out fine with this selection.

I don't think Guelph is even interested.

 

[HockeyPops]

I would be shocked if they are not interested.

Even if he doesn't report this year, if the NCAA relaxes their rules about playing OHL in 18 months, they can try to bring him in for his 17 year old season. Mostly conditional picks should make this a no brainer for Guelph.

And that's assuming he's not still playing games.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I would be shocked if they are not interested.

Even if he doesn't report this year, if the NCAA relaxes their rules about playing OHL in 18 months, they can try to bring him in for his 17 year old season. Mostly conditional picks should make this a no brainer for Guelph.

And that's assuming he's not still playing games.

That's a lot of IFS.
A lot of NCAA coaches don't think any rules are going to change either.
This has been talked about for years.