Kingston Frontenacs 2021-22 Season Thread

[HockeyPops]

You can't only have one scoring line. If there is a need, waiting is only going to delay the inevitable. Plus players need time to build chemistry. You can't always just plug and play at the deadline. Many examples of when that didn't work.

That being said, the big fish is almost always a deadline deal because a 16 year old first rounder is going the other way, plus often you are waiting for the big fish to return from the world juniors.

 

[beastintheeast]

You can't only have one scoring line. If there is a need, waiting is only going to delay the inevitable. Plus players need time to build chemistry. You can't always just plug and play at the deadline. Many examples of when that didn't work.

That being said, the big fish is almost always a deadline deal because a 16 year old first rounder is going the other way, plus often you are waiting for the big fish to return from the world juniors.

Not sure how long you have been with the OHL but Kingston ownership has a bad habit of making either dumb trades (ie paying too much) or by trading the farm as well as the kitchen sink for a few rentals which hasn't worked.

That is what I am getting at. Kingston needs to make a strategic trade not a mass trade as this ownership has been known to do. The ownership here has had a tendency to see playoffs and playoff get money and not look at what the damage will be in the future.

That is why I am saying they need to make a trade or 2 but not give up everything.

As to a second line I think they have that already from what I read about ludwinski. Problem is that he is going to be what every team in the OHL will want in a trade.

 

[HockeyPops]

Teams may want Ludwinski, but if he can produce enough to play second line on a contender it's an easy "next" from Kingston Brass.

 

[ottsabrefan]

Not sure how long you have been with the OHL but Kingston ownership has a bad habit of making either dumb trades (ie paying too much) or by trading the farm as well as the kitchen sink for a few rentals which hasn't worked.

That is what I am getting at. Kingston needs to make a strategic trade not a mass trade as this ownership has been known to do. The ownership here has had a tendency to see playoffs and playoff get money and not look at what the damage will be in the future.

That is why I am saying they need to make a trade or 2 but not give up everything.

As to a second line I think they have that already from what I read about ludwinski. Problem is that he is going to be what every team in the OHL will want in a trade.

I agree with you that they used to make trades when they were out if the playoffs to try to get in rather than sell-off. But I feel like that hasn't happened since the Mavety days. One could argue the massive buying (selling of futures) three years ago led them to draft Wright. Given they have never even made the OHL finals I think you need to do all you can to at least make that happen given the extreme high end talent and overall depth on this club.

As for your last point, they are very deep on forward. Not sure they need anything there unless someone like Othmann forces a trade on a discount. I could even see Ludwinski on the 3rd line with Acuri/Frasca/Edmonds on the second line, once Wisdom returns. The D needs to be addressed.

 

[Truthking]

Moving Dugas and bringing in an OA dman would go a long way.

 

[dirty12]

Moving Dugas and bringing in an OA dman would go a long way.

Edmonds, Frasca, Peric are OAs too; anything for Dugas would be good.

 

[ottsabrefan]

Chromiak has been sent back to Kingston. Seems like a good break for the Fronts as he has been tearing things up and probably could have made the AHL.

Kings trim roster by three + Day 7 groupings/lines & a lookahead to Frozen Fury - LA Kings Insider

 

[beastintheeast]

Dugas will definitely be traded but the longer you wait until teams see what they have the better you are going to get.

As to stupid trades the same twit owner is still there so only time will tell LOL

 

[Truthking]

That is what I am getting at. Kingston needs to make a strategic trade not a mass trade as this ownership has been known to do.

What is a mass trade exactly?

 

[dirty12]

Dugas will definitely be traded but the longer you wait until teams see what they have the better you are going to get.

As to stupid trades the same twit owner is still there so only time will tell LOL

the Fronts will need to at least match, if not exceed the additions of Barrie & Hamilton just to go beyond round 2. You can probably expect that ‘mass trade’.

 

[beastintheeast]

What is a mass trade exactly?

2017-2018
Kingston gets London gets Windsor gets
Chris Pu Nathan Dunkley Cody Morgan
Gabe Vilardi Draft picks a 2nd round selection in 2020
Sean Day, a 2nd round selection in 2022
a 2nd round selection in 2024
, a 2nd round selection in 2025
3rd round selection in 2020
3 conditional selections in 2023 (3rd round) and 2027 (2nd round) and
2028 (2nd round)

That is what I am talking about a MASS TRADE and the Fronts are still paying for it.

Ask the people that were fans in 2018-2019 if they thought it was a great deal

 

[dirty12]

S.Day, G.Villardi, C.Pu, and M.Jones for N.Dunkley, C.Morgan, and 4-2nds, 2-3rds looks even better in hindsight, imo. It seems the Fronts knew what they were giving up in the players; a lot less than most believed at the time.
I know I was a fan of the trade(s); I bought tickets for every game ROS.
Injury to Day & Jones hurt.

Still paying? Kingston is back in contention four years later with a special player.
Hamilton is back in contention after a ‘mass trade’ in the same time frame as well

 

[HockeyPops]

Yeah, Kingston had a really strong team. I know going down 4-1 to Hamilton in the conference finals doesn't sound too close, but they really weren't far off and did have a solid chance to beat Hamilton. Had they not made the "MASS TRADES" they would not have had the chance. The goal should be to load up when you have the chance to win. Kingston is doing fine at this.

 

[ottsabrefan]

S.Day, G.Villardi, C.Pu, and M.Jones for N.Dunkley, C.Morgan, and 4-2nds, 2-3rds looks even better in hindsight, imo. It seems the Fronts knew what they were giving up in the players; a lot less than most believed at the time.
I know I was a fan of the trade(s); I bought tickets for every game ROS.
Injury to Day & Jones hurt.
Still paying? Kingston is back in contention four years later with a special player

Not necessarily directed at this post but...

IMO, the difference is that they essentially traded for a core. This current team already has a core. Could you imagine adding Vilardi, Pu, Jones, Day to this current team? That team had a great goalie but didn't have as strong enough a core as this team. And it was Pu and Vilardi that largely carried that team to the 3rd round. Though they did come close. I wasn't a huge fan of the deals with London (Dunkley was great in Kingston and Popov showed flashes) but I would do the Windsor trade again in a heartbeat.

 

[beastintheeast]

Simple question How many series have the Fronts won?

As a fan, I want a team that is going to entertain me every year, not one that throws it all away on rentals.

Yes, you got Wright but what could you have gotten with the draft picks 2nd round players are usually pretty good and make the team.
Take a look at the teams that win very few do hail mary's
Kingston has had a habit of doing this every time they get a sniff of first place.

Go for it and suck for the next 2 years. This does not build a fan base.

 

[AttackBeacher]

Dugas will definitely be traded but the longer you wait until teams see what they have the better you are going to get.

As to stupid trades the same twit owner is still there so only time will tell LOL

With all due respect to the kid, who would have room for him and take him based on his resume to date?

 

[ottsabrefan]

Yeah, Kingston had a really strong team. I know going down 4-1 to Hamilton in the conference finals doesn't sound too close, but they really weren't far off and did have a solid chance to beat Hamilton. Had they not made the "MASS TRADES" they would not have had the chance. The goal should be to load up when you have the chance to win. Kingston is doing fine at this.

I agree. It should be noted that Hamilton only beat Kingston because they loaded up even more than the Fronts did. Just look at how the Storm loaded up and beat the 67s who didn't really add.

 

[ottsabrefan]

With all due respect to the kid, who would have room for him and take him based on his resume to date?

As far as his resume, he's a decent goalie who IMO could be one of the better goalies in the league this year. His numbers reflect the fact he played on a bottom team with little defence.

 

[dirty12]

Simple question How many series have the Fronts won?

As a fan, I want a team that is going to entertain me every year, not one that throws it all away on rentals.

Yes, you got Wright but what could you have gotten with the draft picks 2nd round players are usually pretty good and make the team.
Take a look at the teams that win very few do hail mary's
Kingston has had a habit of doing this every time they get a sniff of first place.

Go for it and suck for the next 2 years. This does not build a fan base.

pretty sure Guelph, Oshawa, (Erie/Windsor), Hamilton, Guelph were (all-in)

 

[HockeyPops]

Greyhounds would have loaded up more in 2017-2018 but we didn't have the draft capital to make more than one big move (Raddysh/Sambrook from Erie)

 

[leafs4life94]

As far as his resume, he's a decent goalie who IMO could be one of the better goalies in the league this year. His numbers reflect the fact he played on a bottom team with little defence.

Agree with this - I was totally comfortable having him as their goalie before Merilainen commtited. If you look into his game by game numbers - he has some REALLY bad games that really bring down his numbers. I remember in 19-20 he would get really flustered when the porous Fronts defense would give up a lot of quality chances and it almost seemed like he'd give up, but he 100% has potential to steal games.

Re: trades - offensively, Wisdom could function as a defacto trade deadline acquisition (assuming he gets sent back down - hopefully Flyers prefer him get back up to speed in Kingston rather than against men). I think they need to add one top 2 D and one top 4 D - I'm not exactly sure who all is out there but that's what I'd be targeting.

The complaints about selling the farm - they've gotten a lot of picks back with the Robertson/Neumann trades - they're only missing one 2nd in the next 6 years (they have Niagara's 2nd in 22, 23 and Windsor's in 24). What I hope happens is that they go all in again this year, then when the big dogs have moved on, sell off the remaining players to restock the draft cupboard.

 

[AttackBeacher]

As far as his resume, he's a decent goalie who IMO could be one of the better goalies in the league this year. His numbers reflect the fact he played on a bottom team with little defence.

He's an overage with a very sparse resume. What team...

1. Has room for an overage?
2. Needs a goalie and has room for an overage?

 

[Truthking]

2017-2018
Kingston gets London gets Windsor gets
Chris Pu Nathan Dunkley Cody Morgan
Gabe Vilardi Draft picks a 2nd round selection in 2020
Sean Day, a 2nd round selection in 2022
a 2nd round selection in 2024
, a 2nd round selection in 2025
3rd round selection in 2020
3 conditional selections in 2023 (3rd round) and 2027 (2nd round) and
2028 (2nd round)

That is what I am talking about a MASS TRADE and the Fronts are still paying for it.

Ask the people that were fans in 2018-2019 if they thought it was a great deal

It was a fine deal, your logic doesn’t make any sense. You’re saying you should never make trades because it depletes your team, if you never load up you’re never going to win. Kingstons problem has never been trades, you could argue that their drafting hasn’t always been great.
I don’t really understand why you harp on things the management did 25 years ago, it has no bearing on what is going on now. I feel like you’re stuck in 1995.

 

[ottsabrefan]

He's an overage with a very sparse resume. What team...

1. Has room for an overage?
2. Needs a goalie and has room for an overage?

You might be right in that there may not be a team that needs him right now. My point was more so that I expect him to be an above average starter (if someone needs a goalie and can sacrifice a spot) and I can say that I'm sure the Fronts don't want to face him in the playoffs given how he can steal games.

 

[ottsabrefan]

Agree with this - I was totally comfortable having him as their goalie before Merilainen commtited. If you look into his game by game numbers - he has some REALLY bad games that really bring down his numbers. I remember in 19-20 he would get really flustered when the porous Fronts defense would give up a lot of quality chances and it almost seemed like he'd give up, but he 100% has potential to steal games.

Re: trades - offensively, Wisdom could function as a defacto trade deadline acquisition (assuming he gets sent back down - hopefully Flyers prefer him get back up to speed in Kingston rather than against men). I think they need to add one top 2 D and one top 4 D - I'm not exactly sure who all is out there but that's what I'd be targeting.

The complaints about selling the farm - they've gotten a lot of picks back with the Robertson/Neumann trades - they're only missing one 2nd in the next 6 years (they have Niagara's 2nd in 22, 23 and Windsor's in 24). What I hope happens is that they go all in again this year, then when the big dogs have moved on, sell off the remaining players to restock the draft cupboard.

I would also add that had Vilardi returned as expected, and not be shut down by injury, the Fronts assets would look like the Colts right now.