Rumor: Kings Not done...Exploring the Market for Toffoli

[redcard]

Why would the Kings move this youngish guy ? Whether its win now or tomorrow he fits.

Nobody is going to take the Brown or Phaneuf contracts, possibly not Kovalchuk either. If this year is being written off, might as well keep them around anyway, the more time ticks off their deals the easier they are to move/buyout.

Kopitar and Doughty have big contracts, lots of term, but are still likely to be impact players 2-4 years down the line. We still want them around for when we're coming out of the rebuild/retool and ready to compete again. Quick's still a great goalie when healthy, but the injury risk and term makes him hard to move as well.

That leaves Carter (33), Toffoli (26), Martinez (31), and Muzzin (29) as guys with real trade value that can be moved for pieces to help the rebuild.

Plus Hagelin (30), Lewis (31), Clifford (27), Forbort (26), LaDue (26), Fantenberg (27) who you might be able to get picks out of. Thompson (34) probably doesn't have much value due to the cap hit but that expires this year.

When people talk about the Kings being old, they're thinking of the Core of Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Quick plus the bloated contracts of Phaneuf and Kovalchuk. But the reality is that other 11 guys I listed above between 26 and 34 years old equally responsible, easier to move, and far more expendable. Those are the guys that should be on the block first.

 

[Vachon23]

Nobody is going to take the Brown or Phaneuf contracts, possibly not Kovalchuk either. If this year is being written off, might as well keep them around anyway, the more time ticks off their deals the easier they are to move/buyout.

Kopitar and Doughty have big contracts, lots of term, but are still likely to be impact players 2-4 years down the line. We still want them around for when we're coming out of the rebuild/retool and ready to compete again. Quick's still a great goalie when healthy, but the injury risk and term makes him hard to move as well.

That leaves Carter (33), Toffoli (26), Martinez (31), and Muzzin (29) as guys with real trade value that can be moved for pieces to help the rebuild.

Plus Hagelin (30), Lewis (31), Clifford (27), Forbort (26), LaDue (26), Fantenberg (27) who you might be able to get picks out of. Thompson (34) probably doesn't have much value due to the cap hit but that expires this year.

When people talk about the Kings being old, they're thinking of the Core of Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Quick plus the bloated contracts of Phaneuf and Kovalchuk. But the reality is that other 11 guys I listed above between 26 and 34 years old equally responsible, easier to move, and far more expendable. Those are the guys that should be on the block first.

I think Trevor Lewis is a player that alote of team will be interested to add in the TDL !

 

[yianik]

Nobody is going to take the Brown or Phaneuf contracts, possibly not Kovalchuk either. If this year is being written off, might as well keep them around anyway, the more time ticks off their deals the easier they are to move/buyout.

Kopitar and Doughty have big contracts, lots of term, but are still likely to be impact players 2-4 years down the line. We still want them around for when we're coming out of the rebuild/retool and ready to compete again. Quick's still a great goalie when healthy, but the injury risk and term makes him hard to move as well.

That leaves Carter (33), Toffoli (26), Martinez (31), and Muzzin (29) as guys with real trade value that can be moved for pieces to help the rebuild.

Plus Hagelin (30), Lewis (31), Clifford (27), Forbort (26), LaDue (26), Fantenberg (27) who you might be able to get picks out of. Thompson (34) probably doesn't have much value due to the cap hit but that expires this year.

When people talk about the Kings being old, they're thinking of the Core of Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Quick plus the bloated contracts of Phaneuf and Kovalchuk. But the reality is that other 11 guys I listed above between 26 and 34 years old equally responsible, easier to move, and far more expendable. Those are the guys that should be on the block first.

Okay, Thanks for the well reasoned explanation.

I guess I was thrown by the Kovalchuk signing and attempted trade for Patches. Seemed like you guys thought you would be contenders for the next while. With Carter, Kopitar, Doughty, Muzzin and Quick, looks like a good foundation for the now.

 

[Osprey]

No, this is incorrect. Blake is clearing cap space to spend on another veteran target this off-season. He flat out refused to concede that the Kings need more than a piece or two to get back into contention. The willingness to trade Anderson-Dolan and the Akil Thomas pick in exchange for six years of Pacioretty, then the subsequent signing of Kovalchuk for three years gives every indication that he still (mistakenly) believes that this team can compete for the Cup.

His plan is to clear enough cap to make a huge Panarin-shaped UFA splash this summer. It's not a plan for the future at all.

He may get Mr. Magoo like lucky by failing his way into a top three pick because of his poor management, but it is not by design. Unleashing a healthy Vilardi, Panarin and an instant top offensive threat first round pick is the only way that will work, but the holes up and down the roster, especially on defense, will prevent this team from contention. Sure would be more fun to watch though.

Kudos. It feels to me that too many Kings fans are giving Blake the benefit of the doubt and assuming that their rationale, especially for the Pearson-Hagelin trade, is his rationale. Kings fans want him to blow up the team, get younger and do a mini-rebuild, but every indication that we've gotten is that Blake doesn't want that. It seems like the GM and the majority of the fans are on different pages.

You noted that Blake signed 35-year-old Kovalchuk and was willing to trade youth for 30-year-old Pacioretty, and he just traded 26-year-old Pearson for 30-year-old Hagelin. If he does part with Hagelin, he's liable to, as you said, spend that cap space in the Summer on a veteran UFA who'll soon add to the team's over-30 club. I don't want to be cynical, but he hasn't given me any reason so far to put faith in him not doing the predictable, cynical thing.

Along the lines of what you added, I don't get the sense that Blake has a plan for the future like Lombardi did. Rather than being proactive, he's being reactive. If Lombardi planned out his voyage while he was still on shore, then Blake hastily set sail and is now trying to bail water out of gaping holes. He didn't recognize that the team overachieved last season and that age and slowness were catching up with them (i.e. that the ship was hardly sea worthy). He thought that the team was good enough that all that he had to do over the Summer was add Kovalchuk. Now, he's scrambling, getting fixated on the weakness du jour and is in danger of making knee jerk moves. He doesn't strike me as a good GM. Perhaps he'll improve in time and make one eventually, similar to Sakic, but the organization is suffering through his rookie bumbling in the meantime.

 

[wintersej]

Kudos. It feels to me that too many Kings fans are giving Blake the benefit of the doubt and assuming that their rationale, especially for the Pearson-Hagelin trade, is his rationale. Kings fans want him to blow up the team, get younger and do a mini-rebuild, but every indication that we've gotten is that Blake doesn't want that. It seems like the GM and the majority of the fans are on different pages.

You noted that Blake signed 35-year-old Kovalchuk and was willing to trade youth for 30-year-old Pacioretty, and he just traded 26-year-old Pearson for 30-year-old Hagelin. If he does part with Hagelin, he's liable to, as you said, spend that cap space in the Summer on a veteran UFA who'll soon add to the team's over-30 club. I don't want to be cynical, but he hasn't given me any reason so far to put faith in him not doing the predictable, cynical thing.

Along the lines of what you added, I don't get the sense that Blake has a plan for the future like Lombardi did. Rather than being proactive, he's being reactive. He didn't recognize that the team overachieved last season and that age and slowness were catching up with them. He thought that the team was good enough that all that he had to do over the Summer was add Kovalchuk. Now, he's scrambling, getting fixated on the weakness du jour and in danger of making knee jerk moves. He doesn't strike me as a good GM. Perhaps he'll improve in time and make one eventually, similar to Sakic, but the organization is suffering through his rookie bumbling in the meantime.

If I am LA I am trying to clear out the space for Panarin.

 

[Primakov!]

Okay, Thanks for the well reasoned explanation.

I guess I was thrown by the Kovalchuk signing and attempted trade for Patches. Seemed like you guys thought you would be contenders for the next while. With Carter, Kopitar, Doughty, Muzzin and Quick, looks like a good foundation for the now.

You're thrown because believing that this team was a contender is exactly what Rob Blake and Luc Robitaille actually thought during this past off-season. So pursuing Illya Kovalchuk and Max Pacioretty to add talent and tweaking the system was all that they thought was necessary.

Even at the point where they fired John Stevens and hired Willie Desjardin they were saying:

"We're in our window," said Kings President Luc Robitaille. "Everything we're doing is about what can help us win the Stanley Cup."

The reality is that the team was not an addition or two away from competing for the Stanley Cup with the current lineup like they thought. They misread the situation and were actually riding on a regression roller coaster that is probably going to require a retool that should have started back in 2016 or 2017.

 

[yianik]

You're thrown because believing that this team was a contender is exactly what Rob Blake and Luc Robitaille actually thought during this past off-season. So pursuing Illya Kovalchuk and Max Pacioretty to add talent and tweaking the system was all that they thought was necessary.

Even at the point where they fired John Stevens and hired Willie Desjardin they were saying:



The reality is that the team was not an addition or two away from competing for the Stanley Cup with the current lineup like they thought. They misread the situation and were actually riding on a regression roller coaster that is probably going to require a retool that should have started back in 2016 or 2017.

Lol. I'm a Habs fan. That sounds eerily familiar, though minus the Cups the Kings actually won.

 

[Osprey]

You're thrown because believing that this team was a contender is exactly what Rob Blake and Luc Robitaille actually thought during this past off-season. So pursuing Illya Kovalchuk and Max Pacioretty to add talent and tweaking the system was all that they thought was necessary.

Long time, no see, Primakov. You should post more often, especially if you're going to say things that I agree with. Also, as someone who's used the same user name for 20 years, I appreciate that you're still using a user name derived from a commercial that hasn't been on TV in 15 years and that hardly anyone nowadays would get the reference to. Respect!

 

[Just Linda]

I'm curious to hear what you want Kings fans for Muzzin and Toffoli from MTL and of it's to expensive, just for Muzzin ?

Could a deal like this be interesting for you guys ?

Ryan Poehling
Cale Fleury
David Schlemko/Jordie Benn (Cap Dump )
Charles Hudon
A pick

Losing those guys hurts LA a lot. Losing the return doesn't bug Montreal lots. That's how you know it's lopsided

 

[typicalsavage]

You're forgetting the Tavares contract ($11 million for 7 years), meaning $48.5 million for 5 players. Add in Andersen and Reilly ($5 million each) and that's $58.5 million for 4 forwards, 2 defensemen, and a goalie. To fill out the roster, that leaves $21 million for 16 players, or $1.3 million per.

In addition to 5 UFA contracts (notably Gardiner @ $4 million, Marincin @ $800,000 and Lindholm @ $925,000), the Leafs have 7 RFA (<$1 million) contracts up next season. They would need to stock their roster with ELCs and bargain-basement vet contracts, get cheap on RFA raises, and in all likelihood, trade Kadri.

Dude you're all over the place. You've quoted me 3 different times and have given me different responses none of which are correct. Like Jesus Christ do some math. How in the world can 4 players cost near 50 million when only two are making over 10? Its actually $32 million for 16 players because Tavres is included in the $37.5 million.

 

[Reaper45]

What would be the asking price on Carter?

1st and a prospect.

 

[Reaper45]

Long time, no see, Primakov. You should post more often, especially if you're going to say things that I agree with. Also, as someone who's used the same user name for 20 years, I appreciate that you're still using a user name derived from a commercial that hasn't been on TV in 15 years and that hardly anyone nowadays would get the reference to. Respect!

Primadonnakov!

 

[tomd]

1st and a prospect.

Here is my concern with that return...the Kings have two NHL caliber centers in their ENTIRE organization. How can they trade Carter and not replace him? A center corps of Kopitar-Amadio-Kempe-?? going into next year would be completely unacceptable to any organization...even one that is "rebuilding".

 

[Reaper45]

Here is my concern with that return...the Kings have two NHL caliber centers in their ENTIRE organization. How can they trade Carter and not replace him? A center corps of Kopitar-Amadio-Kempe-?? going into next year would be completely unacceptable to any organization...even one that is "rebuilding".

I think the plan would be you get assets for Carter and then try and lure Panarin to L.A. in the offseason. But I agree if they miss whoa boy.

 

[tomd]

I think the plan would be you get assets for Carter and then try and lure Panarin to L.A. in the offseason. But I agree if they miss whoa boy.

No doubt but a 1st and a prospect won't help for 2-3 years. In the meantime...

Betting on Panarin would be like going all-in hoping for an inside straight.

 

[LAKings88]

Trade:
Carter
Muzzin
Thompson
Lewis
Hagelin
Forbort
No one wants Phaneuf so that’s that

Kovy (Please Lord=Hughes) Kupari
Iafallo Kopitar Brown
Kempe Vilardi Toffoli
Wagner JAD Rempal
Luff/Clifford

 

[Reaper45]

No doubt but a 1st and a prospect won't help for 2-3 years. In the meantime...

Betting on Panarin would be like going all-in hoping for an inside straight.

I get it I guess I'm of the opinion if Vilardi can get healthy and they add someone like Hughes or a top c prospect that 2nd 1st and prospect being a few years away wouldn't be so worrisome.

 

[Osprey]

Here is my concern with that return...the Kings have two NHL caliber centers in their ENTIRE organization. How can they trade Carter and not replace him? A center corps of Kopitar-Amadio-Kempe-?? going into next year would be completely unacceptable to any organization...even one that is "rebuilding".

I agree. They can't afford to trade Carter yet. Vilardi is the heir apparent for his 2C spot, but he's not proven that he's NHL ready, let alone that he can even stay healthy. The team needs Carter for at least the rest of the season. Next offseason is probably the earliest to trade him. Obviously, if LA lucks out and gets Hughes, he would be the replacement. If they don't and still trade Carter, Blake can sign a UFA center for a year or two until Vilardi, Kupari or another center proves capable of taking the job permanently.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Puljujarvi + Strome for Toffoli and Lewis?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Puljujarvi + Strome for Toffoli and Lewis?

Isn't Lewis worth that ? Strome is f***ing terrible.

Puljujarvi might be too much of a risk to trade for.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Isn't Lewis worth that ? Strome is ****ing terrible.

Puljujarvi might be too much of a risk to trade for.

Lewis hasn’t been much better and hasn’t been saddled carrying Lucic around

I get that Puljujarvi might be a risk but he’s produced at impressive rates when actually played with talent. He’s exactly the kind of guy a rebuilding team should gamble on and play in the top 6.

Basically I just want a replacement cheapish C or LW back (Khaira could shift to C and is wasted on the 4th line) and don’t want Thompson for obvious reasons. Any ideas?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Lewis hasn’t been much better and hasn’t been saddled carrying Lucic around

I get that Puljujarvi might be a risk but he’s produced at impressive rates when actually played with talent. He’s exactly the kind of guy a rebuilding team should gamble on and play in the top 6.

Basically I just want a replacement cheapish C or LW back (Khaira could shift to C and is wasted on the 4th line) and don’t want Thompson for obvious reasons. Any ideas?

I'm not kings fan. Puljujarvi would be nice to get and just to see how things go for him.

I thought Lewis was better. Must have trailed off recently.

Maybe they want a swap of Strome - Lewis if they both suck.

Los Angles may look for a conditional pick based on Puljujarvi not working out ?

 

[untouchable21]

Would love to have Carter on the Jets but I don’t see how it would work. Cost to acquire is one thing, but his term in another.

 

[Reaper45]

I agree. They can't afford to trade Carter yet. Vilardi is the heir apparent for his 2C spot, but he's not proven that he's NHL ready, let alone that he can even stay healthy. The team needs Carter for at least the rest of the season. Next offseason is probably the earliest to trade him. Obviously, if LA lucks out and gets Hughes, he would be the replacement. If they don't and still trade Carter, Blake can sign a UFA center for a year or two until Vilardi, Kupari or another center proves capable of taking the job permanently.

You could always trade Carter for assets and sign a placeholder.

 

[Reaper45]

Puljujarvi + Strome for Toffoli and Lewis?

No thanks. I think Toffoli could get a better package let alone add Lewis who could get a 2nd or 3rd plus a prospect at the deadline.