Player Discussion: Kieffer Bellows *Waived - Claimed by Philadelphia Flyers*

[blinkman360]

BINGO!

Now boys and girls.

If Griffith Reinhart, ( I am going to invoke one of those "if this- then" hypothetical syllogisms) as an asset can return us a Matthew Barzal, then what could a Kieffer Bellows have returned us with shrewd and careful management? That's right, you never know unless you try.

You see children, that's why we hold onto assets regardless of our own preconceived notions of perceived value. As they say, what's one man's trash, is another man's treasure.

Reinhart was still seen as a potential top-3 D prospect to some in the league when we traded him, even though we knew he had fallen off. Bellows was not. Bellows probably saw his value start to drop immediately after being drafted, unfortunately.

Reinhart followed up his draft with quality seasons, including a Memorial Cup MVP. Bellows followed up his draft with a mediocre freshman season. He followed that with a solid WHL campaign, but then two disappointing AHL seasons. After that it's been 2 years of underwhelming NHL production.

Reinhart was traded much earlier, way before his value had a chance to completely tank around the league. 3 years after being drafted. We lost Bellows 6 years after being drafted. Reinhart also had the pedigree of a top-4 pick. Bellows was essentially a dime a dozen winger prospect at this point. Worth taking a flier on for sure(if you have the space for him), but not the kind of guy any sane GM would trade a 1st(or anything close) for.

We're comparing apples and oranges here. Wahlstrom would be a closer comp at the moment, IMO. It would have been more accurate had we attempted to trade him this past summer, since that would have been 3 years post draft, but still. He also was, at his peak, much closer to the caliber of prospect that Reinhart was. At his best Bellows never came close to that tier of blue-chip prospect.

 

[PK Cronin]

Tavares has enough strength that he can drag opponents along while he’s skating. That’s where Tavares is effective. Bellows doesn’t have that low center of gravity to do what Tavares did for us here.

I think Tavares was faster, but he's stronger and has other tools that make him much harder to defend. He's a better skater, has good hands, can shoot the puck, can pass the puck, and can play in tight spaces. Bellows can shoot the puck and that's pretty much it.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

If you find $20 walking down the street one day, that's what should happen every time you walk down the street.

 

[The Real JT]

I’m entertained by the Barzal vs Bellows talk here.

On a related note, if MDC could skate like Barzal then…..we’ll, never mind.

 

[Mike C]

If you find $20 walking down the street one day, that's what should happen every time you walk down the street.

same street or a different one?

 

[islandersbob]

I won’t quote anyone in particular so as to avoid any hurt feelings.

Cutting bait on young prospects should be a rarity and not a commonplace occurrence. With that being said, Lou never does it. His defenders will make excuses for the lack of movement but at some point getting 50 cents on the dollar is far better than hoping for a resurgence on a prospect that you know doesn’t have the tools to succeed in the NHL.

Third round picks are not throw aways. Sure they’re a bit of a long shot but we have several key players on this team picked in the third round or later as evidence of their value.

Which prospect and when should that prospect have been traded by Lou? Rarely do prospects retain their value and get traded for an equal or better pick unless they prove they are NHL quality. Outside of the players currently on the Isles or players who are in battles for roster spots, the Isles cupboard is bare and has been bare for quite some time.

Who was the last Isles pick (non-first rounder) that would have went higher than he was drafted in a D+1 or D+2 redraft who's not contributing to the current Isles? Raty and Dufour? I don't think anyone is advocating to trade them. Before that, Pokka?

The last blue chipper that the Isles had and possibly could have pawned off on someone else was Dal Colle, and his fate was decided before Lou took over. IMO Bellows value topped out at a 2nd rounder (maybe late 1st), and that would have been entailed Lou trading him before 1) Bellows played an AHL game AND 2) Lou seeing Bellows play any game as GM.

I keep hearing that fuddy duddy Lou has wasted value, but I've never seen an answer to who and when. Weak drafting by Lou, there probably is an argument to be made, but missing out on value by not moving valueless prospects is complete rubbish.

 

[leeroggy]

mucho appreciation for your respect shown in the first sentence.

i also try my best to not be hurtful or make anything personal. even if i disagree with something and it's someone i have a good rapport with, i usually will stay mum. i try never to be inflamatory intentionally on the NYI board. it's a fun place and i've met some cool fellas out here!

excellent work by you!

It's said be nice to people that you meet on the way up because they are the same people you meet on the way down

Don told me you run into entirely different people and "to hell with them" . . .

 

[Mike C]

It's said be nice to people that you meet on the way up because they are the same people you meet on the way down

Don told me you run into entirely different people and "to hell with them" . . .

I go with the Kramden/Norton version

 

[Doshell Propivo]

same street or a different one?

And if I see a $20 bill walking down the street, I ain't picking it up. I'm running like hell and hoping it's a flash back...

 

[The Real JT]

I won’t quote anyone in particular so as to avoid any hurt feelings.

Cutting bait on young prospects should be a rarity and not a commonplace occurrence. With that being said, Lou never does it. His defenders will make excuses for the lack of movement but at some point getting 50 cents on the dollar is far better than hoping for a resurgence on a prospect that you know doesn’t have the tools to succeed in the NHL.

Third round picks are not throw aways. Sure they’re a bit of a long shot but we have several key players on this team picked in the third round or later as evidence of their value.

Which prospect and when should that prospect have been traded by Lou? Rarely do prospects retain their value and get traded for an equal or better pick unless they prove they are NHL quality. Outside of the players currently on the Isles or players who are in battles for roster spots, the Isles cupboard is bare and has been bare for quite some time.

Who was the last Isles pick (non-first rounder) that would have went higher than he was drafted in a D+1 or D+2 redraft who's not contributing to the current Isles? Raty and Dufour? I don't think anyone is advocating to trade them. Before that, Pokka?

The last blue chipper that the Isles had and possibly could have pawned off on someone else was Dal Colle, and his fate was decided before Lou took over. IMO Bellows value topped out at a 2nd rounder (maybe late 1st), and that would have been entailed Lou trading him before 1) Bellows played an AHL game AND 2) Lou seeing Bellows play any game as GM.

I keep hearing that fuddy duddy Lou has wasted value, but I've never seen an answer to who and when. Weak drafting by Lou, there probably is an argument to be made, but missing out on value by not moving valueless prospects is complete rubbish.

I can’t. You win.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

same street or a different one?

My answer changes depending on the response.

 

[Seph]

Which prospect and when should that prospect have been traded by Lou? Rarely do prospects retain their value and get traded for an equal or better pick unless they prove they are NHL quality. Outside of the players currently on the Isles or players who are in battles for roster spots, the Isles cupboard is bare and has been bare for quite some time.

Who was the last Isles pick (non-first rounder) that would have went higher than he was drafted in a D+1 or D+2 redraft who's not contributing to the current Isles? Raty and Dufour? I don't think anyone is advocating to trade them. Before that, Pokka?

The last blue chipper that the Isles had and possibly could have pawned off on someone else was Dal Colle, and his fate was decided before Lou took over. IMO Bellows value topped out at a 2nd rounder (maybe late 1st), and that would have been entailed Lou trading him before 1) Bellows played an AHL game AND 2) Lou seeing Bellows play any game as GM.

I keep hearing that fuddy duddy Lou has wasted value, but I've never seen an answer to who and when. Weak drafting by Lou, there probably is an argument to be made, but missing out on value by not moving valueless prospects is complete rubbish.

Based on the logic of trading Bellows when he still had value but had yet to break out, we should probably trade Wahlstrom now. Kinda interesting that we don't see the same people using that logic also saying we should trade Wahlstrom, though.

 

[Mike C]

My answer changes depending on the response.

Good to be flexible. I'm gonna head out to Fascination Street for opening time

 

[MJF]

Based on the logic of trading Bellows when he still had value but had yet to break out, we should probably trade Wahlstrom now. Kinda interesting that we don't see the same people using that logic also saying we should trade Wahlstrom, though.

It’s been kicked around by some here during the summer.

 

[Seph]

It’s been kicked around by some here during the summer.

Occasionally, but not seeing the same people advocating for it is all.

 

[islandersbob]

I can’t. You win.

I wasn't competing for anything. I'm just of of the opinion that there hasn't been much opportunity to turn stalled prospects into draft picks. If a deal can be made, I'd be ecstatic if the team gets something of value. Last I checked Chuck Fletcher is still a GM and I'm sure his dumb trade meter is full and a real humdinger is coming, a la Nick Leddy for Cam Barker. If Lou can turn Wahlstrom into Gauthier or Flyers #1 this year.....

 

[Throttle]

Based on the logic of trading Bellows when he still had value but had yet to break out, we should probably trade Wahlstrom now. Kinda interesting that we don't see the same people using that logic also saying we should trade Wahlstrom, though.

Getting value out of everything is a bit unrealistic and no team does it. So, it’s quiet humorous when that is the position some take as the affirmative of what must be done otherwise someone is to blame.

I mean TB drafted Slater Koekkoek in the first round before some goalie they took later in that round…only to invest seven years in the guy and trade him to the Blackhawks for Rutta and a 7th rounder (a nobody), Rutta was a waste of space that later went onto to PIT. But hey, get that value where you can get it…

 

[Seph]

Getting value out of everything is a bit unrealistic and no team does it. So, it’s quiet humorous when that is the position some take as the affirmative of what must be done otherwise someone is to blame.

I mean TB drafted Slater Koekkoek in the first round before some goalie they took later in that round…only to invest seven years in the guy and trade him to the Blackhawks for Rutta and a 7th rounder (a nobody), Rutta was a waste of space that later went onto to PIT. But hey, get that value where you can get it…

I agree. If you want to turn these guys into value, you have to trade them when they still appear to have high upside and a decent chance of reaching it. I find most fans don't really have the risk tolerance for that, and will just criticize not doing so after the point the prospect is looking bust likely and has little to no value. Makes sense though after all the years with Milbury trading away prospects that went on to become stars that we are a bit traumatized by doing that. But hey, he at least got value for them, right?

The instances where the organization has soured on a prospect but someone else still values them highly are quite rare, so expecting that to happen most of the time is unrealistic.

 

[BarzyClub]

Looks like Bellows was scratched tonite against StLouis

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

The instances where the organization has soured on a prospect but someone else still values them highly are quite rare, so expecting that to happen most of the time is unrealistic.

I found $20 in the street once.

 

[Seph]

I found $20 in the street once.

And that makes everyone else such a failure every time they walk down the street and don't find $20. It's like they don't understand that $20 is an asset.

 

[NC 1972]

Good to be flexible. I'm gonna head out to Fascination Street for opening time

Lot's of 80"s references.

 

[Strummergas]

Lot's of 80"s references.

It's the Isles fanbase. Most of the culture of Isles fandom is 80s references!

 

[Mike C]

Lot's of 80"s references.

I'm a throwback. 70s and 80s were awesomely fun times for me.

 

[NC 1972]

I'm a throwback. 70s and 80s were awesomely fun times for me.

Yes they were!