KHL Expansion Part VIII

[vorky]

@Toro2017

As @Exarz said there is no money for it in Europe.

Why can I imagine that scenario with KHL involving?

1. You need money to launch it. You cannot wait five or ten years for "what if" scenario as they have done with CHL. If you believe, Europe is able to finance such a league with 15-20-25 clubs, you are naive.

On the other hand, the KHL may find European investors for a few teams. There are 3 clubs (Riga, Slovan, Jokerit), perhaps Dinamo Minsk, for such a division/league in the KHL. All the KHL needs is to add 2-5 new clubs. A club from Germany & France are very likely to happen. So, the division is almost ready in theory.

2. A desire. Like it or not, European hockey federations do not have a will to launch something like you described. Do you think that national feds will cease their leagues for the sake of that league?

The KHL has a desire to create something like that. Of course, it will not have 20-25 European clubs, but just 6-10-12 sides, that is enough.

3. Diplomacy. You need to negotiate with all partners before you launch such a league. You need all federations/clubs on board. Impossible.

Even with the CHL, we can find clubs who are boycotting the competition.

The KHL does not need all feds/clubs on board, just a few as I said. It is clear that German/French feds are positive about KHL´s expansion to their land. The KHL does not need Swiss, Czechs, Swedes, Finns in the 1st phase.

Such a big project would need the governments (and their diplomacy) to support the project. I cannot imagine any European diplomacy would work on it. Russian diplomacy has worked on it already.

It is not just the government to support it. It is also hockey executives. Look, Fasel has attended every KHL´s major event for last decade. German/France hockey officials are also frequent guests in the KHL. And yes, these federations were against the KHL a few years ago. It is a result of Russian hockey diplomacy.

The KHL has worked in the hockey diplomacy for a decade. Can you imagine how long would it take to Europeans to negotiate such a project? A decade? Simply, they can not match the Russians.

You wanted the source, here. I can tell you that it is available only in Russian. The video stream is much better than written articles.

And btw, he was asked

Q: Who do you negotiate in Europe?
CH: Among the European nations the most likely are France and Germany
Q: But the DEL may give you a stop with their club.
CH: You know, it’s not worth waiting for a new location that will please everyone. It’s a question of priorities: if the involvement of a team from one or other country contributes to the development of the game, then these problems can be managed.

 

[Albatros]

The CHL exists and keeps developing, a KHL team in Germany is nothing but fantasy with nothing currently indicating the realization of any such project.

 

[Jussi]

I would say that from hockey point of view, Germany would be the no.1 "right" country in Europe. Second would propably be Switzerland. Hockey is big on both countries. If those countries or even Germany would start to build Euroleague for hockey, it might succeed.

I don't think a Euro Hockey League is possible at all. As pointed out several times, there isn't enough money for such a league, at least not in the way that it would be an economic advantage for clubs to switch leagues.

A German poster brought up how small the tv contracts and viewership for hockey in Germany were for DEL and national team, so I also doubt the money would come from Germany. Football is just so big in that country. And considering how cost conscious they're with the Bundesliga these days, I doubt they would go into something so financially risky as Euroleague for hockey.

 

[Toro2017]

@Toro2017
2. A desire. Like it or not, European hockey federations do not have a will to launch something like you described. Do you think that national feds will cease their leagues for the sake of that league?

Yes, I understand that they don't cheer about it, but then again samekind of model, with strong russian influense is far more unlikely that model, where the national feds would be involve.

Even with the CHL, we can find clubs who are boycotting the competition.

Pure nonsense! Every team that has been invited, has also participated. So nonsense. And because you keep saying thesekind of nonsense, it takes credibility away from your other opinions too. If you bend the reality about this case, then how can I (or anyone else) know (or trust) that you are not bending the reality in some other statement too?

Such a big project would need the governments (and their diplomacy) to support the project. I cannot imagine any European diplomacy would work on it. Russian diplomacy has worked on it already.

Russian diplomacy has worked only on one country that was not part of the "east side" and it was here in Finland. The one that made that decision use to be very strong in Finnish hockey, but after that decision he had to go. And to continue, NHL did not need goverment help and in all, we dont like to mix government with sport here in Europe, so if local federations here want European League, they could do it with out governments help. It is considered as failure in our standards, if government needs to help you in this kind of affairs. But this again is propably just cultural difference.

CH: You know, it’s not worth waiting for a new location that will please everyone. It’s a question of priorities: if the involvement of a team from one or other country contributes to the development of the game, then these problems can be managed.

Cherny is dreaming here. Everything in KHL seems to be subject to the national team and anything that threatens it, is a "no go" for Putin and Russian federation. So for example a situation, where some team might contribute to russian hockey, but would also cost upset in local feds, the problem would not be managed, but instead that team would not go to Russia. We saw this with AIK and we know that the "national team first" policy is the only thing that keeps KHL in its place.

 

[Jussi]

Not even, if the russian would be ready to pay for it?

When you consider the domestic (political) pressures on sponsoring local teams over foreign ones and still reducing the money involved, I find it hard to believe there is real motivation right now in Russia to do that.

 

[Toro2017]

When you consider the domestic (political) pressures on sponsoring local teams over foreign ones and still reducing the money involved, I find it hard to believe there is real motivation right now in Russia to do that.

Yes, I agree with you on this, but it was just a speculation. If (for some reason) the russians would be ready to pay for it, could it be done then? Or is the lack of faith towards the russians so big that they would not go for it?

 

[Jussi]

Russian diplomacy has worked only on one country that was not part of the "east side" and it was here in Finland. The one that made that decision use to be very strong in Finnish hockey, but after that decision he had to go. And to continue, NHL did not need goverment help and in all, we dont like to mix government with sport here in Europe, so if local federations here want European League, they could do it with out governments help. It is considered as failure in our standards, if government needs to help you in this kind of affairs. But this again is propably just cultural difference.

Kummola made that decision because to his own ownership on Hartwall Arena, he could benefit financially from it. He has later said that given what has happened since, he wouldn't have given permission anymore. Kummola was retiring anyways, so the Jokerit move didn't really have anything to do with it.

 

[vorky]

@Toro2017

So.

1. Give me a REALISTIC model of how such a league could be launched. Like it or not, I cannot imagine it.

Btw, you know what European hockey federations decided in Barcelona, right? I do not think they have changed their opinion since that time.

2. You can accuse me of anything with the CHL and their boycott. I do not care.

It is two different things - to participate and to be involved in the development of the competition. Not all clubs are on board. We will see what will happen with Swiss in the leadership, the first attempt with Swedes has failed. Btw, it is again about all issues I mentioned earlier. Swedes have failed big time.

3. I guarantee you that you need strong diplomacy to make it happen.

4. You said, "Cherny is dreaming here." If you know his way of work, you can not say what you said.

Chernyshenko is a very realistic guy. He has never said more than is needed. Even at that press conference.

He was asked what the KHL would do if the DEL gave a stop. He is very clear here - we/KHL know that there are many difficulties with European expansion, but we will make it happen. We will not go to the place/city, where we are not welcomed. And we will use our diplomacy and other staff to go where we want. And with a club we want.

Again, Chernyshenko has never said more than is needed. He did not speak about Europe, or Germany/France, at all at the beginning. Everything has changed in the last year, he started to talk openly about Germany/France. Why? Because he is aware that he can say it openly. There are preliminary deals already. Otherwise, he would never talk it openly. That is a reason, I mean "no preliminary deals", why he has not talked about other Euros openly. And again, he will mention other countries at the time, when the preliminary deals are reached.

So, I do not think "Cherny is dreaming here."

 

[Jussi]

Yes, I agree with you on this, but it was just a speculation. If (for some reason) the russians would be ready to pay for it, could it be done then? Or is the lack of faith towards the russians so big that they would not go for it?

Well there's a whole bunch of business people in Finland who'd have some words about that (ie. bad experiences with Russian authorities in Russia). Plus I think people still remember the way Gazprom suddenly pulled out as the main sponsor of the Super Six tournament after it had been won by a non-Russian club, effectively killing it.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

The biggest issue is whether you can get enough fans/teams to be willing to commit for 3 games a week for the length of the season. It seems if you can get to that, everything gets a lot easier.

After that, you can have a true pyramid of Euro/national/regional leagues with interlocking promotion/relegation series.

How you structure the euro league is the trickiest bit. Tough to do in a 2 games a week scenario beyond CHL, but in a 3 game/wk season you have options if you want it performance or regional driven.

 

[ForumNamePending]

I would think for a Euro "super league" to be even kind of viable, regardless of if it's the KHL or something else, you are going to need a critical mass of clubs (no idea how many clubs = critical mass) willing to toss away what they currently have, and take on a huge amount of risk. The clubs that do "defect" would also probably have to be "prestigious" and/or large market clubs as well, and those clubs are probably already enjoying a pretty good situation to begin with, and may not ultimately gain a whole lot, even if the "super league" move went relatively well.

At least with something like the CHL, clubs don't have to risk what they already have. If the CHL eventually grows into something most fans care about, clubs/leagues will have gained something valuable, and if CHL fades into oblivion... Well very little will have been lost, and clubs will still have their fully intact domestic leagues to play in.

My point was that the top teams in the countries where basketball is big, make a lot of money from Euroleague.

I dunno... If you interpret the article you posted as saying clubs make big money from the Euroleague I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

That doesn't include what the domestic tv contracts bring.

...Which don't appear to be all that lucrative. For example: Italy is 3 million/year, Spain is 5 million/year and France is 10 million/year... And that's total, not per team.

I really don't care enough about the subject to go searching for those. I would imagine the Greeks would be high on the list though.

Well let's put it this way, hockey is big in the "wrong" countries where as basketball is big in the "right" countries. Read: population and economy.

I would say it's more accurate to say that club hockey is quite big in the "wrong" countries and club basketball is sort of big (but certainly bigger than club hockey) in some of the "right" countries.

...and basketball might be super popular in Greece, but I wouldn't exactly classify Greece as being one of the "right" countries either.

Anyway, I guess this is a bit off topic so moving on...

...
Even with the CHL, we can find clubs who are boycotting the competition.
...

Has a club actually boycotted the CHL? I get some clubs are probably more enthusiastic about the tournament than others, but what qualified clubs have turned down an invite? I guess you could say the KHL, by not wanting to be involved to begin with, has "boycotted". If that's the standard though, then I guess you could also say the overwhelming majority of hockey clubs in Europe have been "boycotting" the KHL.

 

[Jussi]

At least with something like the CHL, clubs don't have to risk what they already have. If the CHL eventually grows into something most fans care about, clubs/leagues will have gained something valuable, and if CHL fades into oblivion... Well very little will have been lost, and clubs will still have their fully intact domestic leagues to play in.

I dunno... If you interpret the article you posted as saying clubs make big money from the Euroleague I guess we will have to agree to disagree.


...Which don't appear to be all that lucrative. For example: Italy is 3 million/year, Spain is 5 million/year and France is 10 million/year... And that's total, not per team.

Has a club actually boycotted the CHL? I get some clubs are probably more enthusiastic about the tournament than others, but what qualified clubs have turned down an invite? I guess you could say the KHL, by not wanting to be involved to begin with, has "boycotted". If that's the standard though, then I guess you could also say the overwhelming majority of hockey clubs in Europe have been "boycotting" the KHL.

Many of the top hockey clubs in Europe invested in the CHL when it was started so they'e going to see it all the way through.

I looked at the top earner who who are major clubs in major basketball countries in Europe.

At least the sport has tv contracts in those countries, same can't be said of hockey.

Nope. There's few club bosses that have whined mainly because they've been getting spanked by British teams even, don't have success in the tournament and thus don't get to enjoy financial success. The further you get in the tournament, the more prize money you'll get. It's as simple as that. With the prize money rising each season, it'll get more and more lucrative to succeed in it.

 

[Toro2017]

2. You can accuse me of anything with the CHL and their boycott. I do not care.

But there is no point talking to you, if you cannot "keep your s**t real". When it comes to KHL, your reality bends heavily to the positive. For you it seems to be like hockey heaven and all the people around it are like missionaries, with hockey gospel. You are unable to admit that there is anything wrong with it and get mad, if anybody else point anything like that out.

On the otherhand when it comes to CHL your reality seems to bend heavily on the negative and that way you are unable to see anything positive about it. Then you go and make ridiculous claims, like some teams are boycotting CHL. Ridiculous nonsense! If boycotting in your books means that some teams have said something bad about the competition, they are participating, then we can also say that many KHL teams have (one time or another) boycotted KHL. Jokerit (for example) have criticized KHL multiple times and I am pretty sure that even many Russian teams have criticized KHL after they have lost to teams like SKA, for bad refereeing. Not to mention any bigger problems.

4. You said, "Cherny is dreaming here."

Yes, I said that and I can say it again (if you quote him correctly). Well I can give you that maybe this is again one of those cultural differences, but when somebody first says that they wont go to a place where they are not welcomed and right after that claims that they can go where they want. It just sounds stupid. But maybe it its a cultural thing or even linguistic problem, where the actual meaning changes when translated.

But dont get me wrong. I think it is a great thing that the Russians are ready to pump so much money on hockey and that some players that otherwise would be in north america plays instead here in Europe. But as we Europeans are thankful for the check every year, we cannot trust it to last forever and thats why we dont want to build anything (on our own) based on it, before it becomes sensible business. Now it is just a money pit.

 

[vorky]

@Toro2017

1. The question is what you want to see. A strong European club hockey or status quo? I prefer a strong European club hockey.

When the CHL starts to do steps leading to a strong European club hockey, I will be the first to support it.

2. I recommend you to watch the video.

You accused Chernyshenko of dreaming in his statement. I replied that it is not true and I gave you reasons for it. He has never talked about his fantasies, he has always talked about facts. Easy to understand. If he talks about negotiations with Germany/France, their big interest, it is a fact.

Agree that it is great the KHL is able to pay players very good money. Would be great if the remaining European leagues were at the KHL level at least, if not better.

 

[Albatros]

That KHL financial model is not sustainable, which would be a grave mistake for European club hockey. Clubs have to be able to break even, and that means needing to succeed in everything from attendances to television contracts to wage bills. Relying on oligarchs or sheikhs is not going to work, at all.

 

[Jonimaus]

Agree that it is great the KHL is able to pay players very good money. Would be great if the remaining European leagues were at the KHL level at least, if not better.

The way KHL is able to pay its players isn't great. It's absolutely terrible. Not everyone is ok to do things "with any means necessery".

 

[vorky]

The way KHL is able to pay its players isn't great. It's absolutely terrible. Not everyone is ok to do things "with any means necessery".

The KHL wages are 2-3 times bigger than the rest of Europe.

The source of the information is Ernst & Young.

 

[Jonimaus]

The KHL wages are 2-3 times bigger than the rest of Europe.

And how many clubs are making money or at least breaking even without being on life support?

 

[mkev400]

Again, Chernyshenko has never said more than is needed. He did not speak about Europe, or Germany/France, at all at the beginning. Everything has changed in the last year, he started to talk openly about Germany/France. Why? Because he is aware that he can say it openly. There are preliminary deals already. Otherwise, he would never talk it openly. That is a reason, I mean "no preliminary deals", why he has not talked about other Euros openly. And again, he will mention other countries at the time, when the preliminary deals are reached.

It's been a while since i joined this argument, but I'd be interested to know what exactly has changed in the past year with regards to Germany and France and if there is any proof/information for those preliminary deals that are gonna even the ground for a German or French team in the KHL?

The only concrete reference I have found for both is this quote (Source)
“Among the European nations the most likely are France and Germany. It’s not worth waiting for a new location that will please everyone. It’s a question of priorities: if the involvement of a team from one or other country contributes to the development of the game, then these problems can be managed.”

The statement seems rather obvious to me if I'm honest. The KHL already has a team in Finland (which if I can believe the Finnish guys on these boards see dwindling support and increased resistance) and the Swedish Federation has flat out said no, prompting the "prospective Crowns project" (yes i know its a non-starter at this stage) to claim they might be a travelling swedish team based out of the baltics with out Federation support. Then there are the KHL World Games, which can very much be seen as a soft testing of interest in Austria and Switzerland. The SKA Game in Zurich drew a crowd of 3.000 in an Arena of 11.200 and a respectful attendance of 5.500 saw the CSKA game in Vienna, but neither are hardly the hugely supporting crowds that the KHL was surely expecting. Especially considering that Bykov, as per KHL website said, that there will be huge support for the KHL in Zurich (funnily enough the attendance for the SKA game was not reported in the massive game article). So Switzerland is out. Meanwhile Viennas CEO has mentioned that their Budget is € 5.5m, so they surely cant afford the KHL. So taking all of that into account, Germany and France are really the only options left, especially due to theit big positives: Both are large economies, with teams in and around the top level at the world Ice Hockey championships. Hardly a difficult speculative statement of intent to make...

 

[vorky]

@mkev400

What has changed? I would say the politics in the world has changed. Yes, there are still Russian sanctions, but Russia does not care about them anymore. And, Russian´s diplomacy is on a good path, so the political environment has changed. So course, colonies still insisting on their previous statements.

Timchenko was the first who openly said about talks with Germany/France, I believe it was last summer. But, Gernot Tripcke, DEL CEO, was a guest at the KHL ASG 2016 or 2017 (not sure about the year). German hockey federation´s boss Franz Reindl has attended various KHL or FHR events. French delegation was at the KHL ASG 2019. Not saying about Fasel ... and others who have never been mentioned in the press. That is what I said - the diplomacy has worked for all those years when European hockey officials thought the KHL will never ever expand to Europe and will expand to Asia only. And they believed the KHL will cease to exist due to Russian sanctions, I would add.

The reality is the opposite. The KHL has never stopped their talks with European clubs, they just did not say it to the press. Last year, they started to talk about European expansion again.

And they launched the KHL World Games. The event will take place next season as well.

It is my understanding there is a preliminary deal with Germany, France. It is obvious for a guy studying the KHL´s expansion.

It is still unknown if a German expansion club will be a DEL club or "German Lev" kind of team. If it is "Lev", the best location IMO would be Hamburg.

You get the point with "a soft testing of interest in Austria and Switzerland."

Even if the attendance was not so great, both games achieved their goals - testing the market. I even read an article claiming ZSC Lions did not allow the KHL to promote the KHL World Games at ZSC games. If true, it says a lot about the readiness of Europeans to work with the KHL (I mean KHL joining the CHL).

Even if a classic European club - like Jokerit - joins the KHL. It will be a totally different club, with a different budget, financing, roster, even the venue would be updated. The KHL standards are too high for an ordinary European club. Even Eisbären or other German clubs with big venues would have to do some minor or major improvements in the arena. All these "details" need to be negotiated, so it takes long ....

SAP deal is a clear signal for the European clubs interested in joining... I am sure SAP would not go to losing business.... and their guy at the press conference in CSKA Arena (before CSKA-SKA game) would not repeat again and again how he is delighted to be at that match.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

@mkev400

What has changed? I would say the politics in the world has changed. Yes, there are still Russian sanctions, but Russia does not care about them anymore. And, Russian´s diplomacy is on a good path, so the political environment has changed. So course, colonies still insisting on their previous statements.

Timchenko was the first who openly said about talks with Germany/France, I believe it was last summer. But, Gernot Tripcke, DEL CEO, was a guest at the KHL ASG 2016 or 2017 (not sure about the year). German hockey federation´s boss Franz Reindl has attended various KHL or FHR events. French delegation was at the KHL ASG 2019. Not saying about Fasel ... and others who have never been mentioned in the press. That is what I said - the diplomacy has worked for all those years when European hockey officials thought the KHL will never ever expand to Europe and will expand to Asia only. And they believed the KHL will cease to exist due to Russian sanctions, I would add.

The reality is the opposite. The KHL has never stopped their talks with European clubs, they just did not say it to the press. Last year, they started to talk about European expansion again.

And they launched the KHL World Games. The event will take place next season as well.

It is my understanding there is a preliminary deal with Germany, France. It is obvious for a guy studying the KHL´s expansion.

It is still unknown if a German expansion club will be a DEL club or "German Lev" kind of team. If it is "Lev", the best location IMO would be Hamburg.

You get the point with "a soft testing of interest in Austria and Switzerland."

Even if the attendance was not so great, both games achieved their goals - testing the market. I even read an article claiming ZSC Lions did not allow the KHL to promote the KHL World Games at ZSC games. If true, it says a lot about the readiness of Europeans to work with the KHL (I mean KHL joining the CHL).

Even if a classic European club - like Jokerit - joins the KHL. It will be a totally different club, with a different budget, financing, roster, even the venue would be updated. The KHL standards are too high for an ordinary European club. Even Eisbären or other German clubs with big venues would have to do some minor or major improvements in the arena. All these "details" need to be negotiated, so it takes long ....

SAP deal is a clear signal for the European clubs interested in joining... I am sure SAP would not go to losing business.... and their guy at the press conference in CSKA Arena (before CSKA-SKA game) would not repeat again and again how he is delighted to be at that match.

It is highly unlikely an established DEL club joins. They've already rejected years of KHL wooing. Jokerit's financial situation has only solidified their resolve, with the third most valuable team in the league losing more than 10 million per year, and having no future where they can make money.

DEL clubs have come together and said that they're fine with not paying as much in salaries and staying in the black instead. Besides, DEL has the second highest average support in Europe behind Switzerland and ahead of the KHL itself. They're doing well without the KHL and without a continental league, they have 3 out of the top 10 highest attendances in Europe while the KHL has only 2 out of the top 10. And that is with paying much less in salaries, therefore not being able to attract the highest quality players in theory, and not being bankrolled by government owned companies. The only way a KHL team pops up in Germany is if it's like most KHL teams: with a big company backer willing to take massive losses each year in what is seen a more of a social donation than running a business.

 

[vorky]

@Barclay Donaldson
Check your facts.

 

[Jonimaus]

@Barclay Donaldson
Check your facts.

Why do you avoid commenting on questions when you are proven wrong? I don't think you're in any position to criticize anyone here.

 

[Toro2017]

The only way a KHL team pops up in Germany is if it's like most KHL teams: with a big company backer willing to take massive losses each year in what is seen a more of a social donation than running a business.

Or could it be some DEL team that would be in financial troubles and russian money would be the last lifeline? Some people in Finland are talking that this was the case with Jokerit, or to be precise with their hockey arena (hartwall areena). It is rumored to have been in big financial troubles and russian money was the last lifeline and some people speculate that the same case was with Espoo Blues (which was finnish KHL candidate before Jokerit). So Jokerit got the lifeline and Espoo was left without it. Jokerit is still alive, but losing money heavily (+10 million euros per year) and Espoo Blues is buried.

 

[mkev400]

@mkev400

What has changed? I would say the politics in the world has changed. Yes, there are still Russian sanctions, but Russia does not care about them anymore. And, Russian´s diplomacy is on a good path, so the political environment has changed. So course, colonies still insisting on their previous statements.

Timchenko was the first who openly said about talks with Germany/France, I believe it was last summer. But, Gernot Tripcke, DEL CEO, was a guest at the KHL ASG 2016 or 2017 (not sure about the year). German hockey federation´s boss Franz Reindl has attended various KHL or FHR events. French delegation was at the KHL ASG 2019. Not saying about Fasel ... and others who have never been mentioned in the press. That is what I said - the diplomacy has worked for all those years when European hockey officials thought the KHL will never ever expand to Europe and will expand to Asia only. And they believed the KHL will cease to exist due to Russian sanctions, I would add.

The reality is the opposite. The KHL has never stopped their talks with European clubs, they just did not say it to the press. Last year, they started to talk about European expansion again.

And they launched the KHL World Games. The event will take place next season as well.

Well, as you say sanctions are still active. And while Russian diplomacy doesnt care, world diplomacy still very much cares, such as Nordstream which is widely opposed by the EU and the US (but that is a different topic all together, but may very well factor in, i.e. soft power). But lets not get too political.

On the point of Tripke at the ASG in Astana, Im mentioned it in response to your speculation already, Tripke is also on the board of the CHL (or was at the time), a tournament that the KHL has so far been boycotting because they cant dictate any terms on it (which is fine with me, as are looking out for their own interests). I can't comment on the aspect of a french delegation however. And Fasel is the head of the IIHF, which every country participating in the KHL are a member off, son thats not really all that news worthy. As for the continued discussions behind closed doors, I can see why that would be ongoing. Afterall the aim is to include clubs from Europe and Asia. Claiming that and not following through would be asking to be ridiculed.

It is my understanding there is a preliminary deal with Germany, France. It is obvious for a guy studying the KHL´s expansion.

So it is just speculation without tangible proof, much like the KHL future proposals by finnish members a few pages earlier, grand. I know it mightnt apply for Hockey in the same fashion, especially since currently only one player from France and non from Germnay are active in the KHL but, even if there are preliminary agreements, I wouldnt be surprised if they were guarantees by the national federation to have access to any national team players that play in the KHL for tournaments and training camps. Not sure if that is necessarily the case in Hockey, and the KHL in particular, but such agreements are a major point of contention in other sports such as rugby, but thats also mere speculation on my part.

It is still unknown if a German expansion club will be a DEL club or "German Lev" kind of team. If it is "Lev", the best location IMO would be Hamburg.

The Freezers were bankrolled by the Anschutz Entertainment Group who got fed up with losing money in the DEL with two teams, so they axed the worse of the two (as much as it pained me. Loved going to games there). And in the aftermath, no one wanted to step up and save the team, and fan support just wasnt enough to keep them alive, as was the case in like Dusseldorf where Fans, celebrities and business owners came together to save the DEG. Same happened to the Hamburg Handball team, they went broke. Beyond Football there doesnt seem to be enough corporate willingness to support anything else but Football, and the losses in the Handball-Bundesliga or the DEL are much smaller than in the KHL, so I would question the viabillity of Hamburg as a team (Plus the arena is owned and managed by Anschutz still). As for current DEL teams, I just don't think there is the willingness.

You get the point with "a soft testing of interest in Austria and Switzerland."

Even if the attendance was not so great, both games achieved their goals - testing the market. I even read an article claiming ZSC Lions did not allow the KHL to promote the KHL World Games at ZSC games. If true, it says a lot about the readiness of Europeans to work with the KHL (I mean KHL joining the CHL).

Why would they? Why would a team thats routed in the NLA promote a game of 3 other clubs of another league that has is playing games in Switzerland? Its like saying BMW dealers have the audacity to not promote Audi cars. ZSC Lions and the NLA have a vested interest of drawing the swiss crowds to their product, and not to a rivaling product, that has no local involvement. The NHL global series for example stages exhibition games against local teams, or promote certain ties with the place they are playing in, and therefore get local support. The world games from all i have read are pretty much an event where they want to show how glorious and far superior the League is to everything else in Europe, which isnt appealing for the host cities.

Even if a classic European club - like Jokerit - joins the KHL. It will be a totally different club, with a different budget, financing, roster, even the venue would be updated. The KHL standards are too high for an ordinary European club. Even Eisbären or other German clubs with big venues would have to do some minor or major improvements in the arena. All these "details" need to be negotiated, so it takes long ....

SAP deal is a clear signal for the European clubs interested in joining... I am sure SAP would not go to losing business.... and their guy at the press conference in CSKA Arena (before CSKA-SKA game) would not repeat again and again how he is delighted to be at that match.

For France upgrades might be required for some of the Barnes (though i think Paris is the only suitable location with the KHL min capacity of 5500 capable of ice and capable of attracting good crowds and has adequate transport links). As for Germany, you can't seriously tell me that you believe that Berlin, Cologne, Mannheim, Dusseldorf have inferior arena standards than the KHL? For god sakes, the Omsk play near Moscow because their arena fell apart. Up until last year CSKA couldnt fill their own arena of 5500, because the standard of it was so shitty, and it only improved once they moved into a new arena (which, if Dinamo hadnt gotten a new arena, wouldnt have been free for them).

As for SAP, they also just bought the naming right s for the new Hockey and Basketball Arena in Munich, Own the naming rights to the Building in Mannheim, their founder owns the Arena and Team in Mannheim, the other founder has the same deal in San Jose, so really its just another tick on the sports sponsorship front, so I dont think there is too much to be read into it.

The only way a KHL team pops up in Germany is if it's like most KHL teams: with a big company backer willing to take massive losses each year in what is seen a more of a social donation than running a business.

I fully agree with your post. Especially this line will be the challenging bit, as outlined above regarding Hamburg, which is really the only other suitable place for a team...