KHL Expansion Part VIII

[vorky]

Not really sure what any of this means.

The KHL Board of Directors decided in March that Admiral will be allowed to compete in next season’s championship if, before July 31, 2021, it repays all monies owing to players and coaches from the 2017/18 season. They could give Admiral the access to CIB in April or May, but they did not do that. The league waited for Admiral´s actions. When the club started fulfilling its obligations, the access to CIB was granted. We did not see such a scenario in the past. Btw, it shows that the league has become stronger.

 

[SoundAndFury]

The KHL Board of Directors decided in March that Admiral will be allowed to compete in next season’s championship if, before July 31, 2021, it repays all monies owing to players and coaches from the 2017/18 season. They could give Admiral the access to CIB in April or May, but they did not do that. The league waited for Admiral´s actions. When the club started fulfilling its obligations, the access to CIB was granted. We did not see such a scenario in the past. Btw, it shows that the league has become stronger.

1. Do we actually have any evidence Admiral has indeed done that and this wasn't just an arbitrary date when KHL board decided "ok, whatever, we can't wait anymore?".
2. The league has become stronger by allowing back the club which they don't trust to pay back their debts and instead choose to basically bully said club into doing it?

I think I will decide on my own what does it show about the league.

 

[ozo]

All I see is a KHL team owing players their salaries from 2017/18 in 2021. Yikes.

 

[vorky]

1. Do we actually have any evidence Admiral has indeed done that and this wasn't just an arbitrary date when KHL board decided "ok, whatever, we can't wait anymore?".

It depends on what evidence you demand.

If you want to see the bank accounts, I believe it will never happen to you. They will never show you the bank accounts. If the media reports are enough for you, then I believe something like that was written there. Google.

2. The league has become stronger by allowing back the club which they don't trust to pay back their debts and instead choose to basically bully said club into doing it?

I think I will decide on my own what does it show about the league.

No. Wrong interpretation.

The league is in a position "we do not need, we want" Who says they do not trust Admiral? They just control the process & the league is not in a position "whatever" anymore.

 

[SoundAndFury]

The league is in a position "we do not need, we want" Who says they do not trust Admiral? They just control the process & the league is not in a position "whatever" anymore.

Considering having Admiral in the league was always a politically determined decision I'm going to politely doubt that. The somewhat good on the league is just the fact that they are at least trying to use this political friction to get the debts covered that otherwise were still standing 3 years later.

 

[cska78]

Not really sure what any of this means.

He wants to say, that KHL did the due diligence, before allowing Admiral to rejoin. I am not quite sold on this, especially them claiming not being able to find Volchenkov to pay him back

 

[alko]

Now maybe i overlooked something here, but what is a CIB access ?

 

[vorky]

Now maybe i overlooked something here, but what is a CIB access ?

KHL CIB (Central Information Bureau) is the league´s database of all contracts, trades (transfers), players´ statuses within the league (RFA, UFA etc), etc. They control the salary cap there as well. And perhaps, the costs & revenues by all clubs, if they do not use other database. I know they have a database for it, just I am not sure if it is within KHL CIB.

It is working online, all players´ moves need to be registered by KHL CIB to be binding. So, when a player signs a contract, the club delivers the contract´s verified copy to KHL CIB, who registers it. Then, the contract is valid. Admiral did not have the access to KHL CIB, so they could not sign the contracts. As simple as that.

As I know, the NHL has the very same database. I do not know if other European leagues have such a database. I mean the database on NHL-KHL level.

Btw, KHL CIB is one of the things which have significantly improved since 2008 when the league was established.

E: It is called the NHL's Central Registry Department.

E: Here is what they write about KHL CIB.

KHL CIB
A KHL structural unit carrying out the generation of the KHL CIB e-base containing data on Hockey Player's status, verification and storage of Hockey Player's Contracts, monitoring changes in Clubs' rosters, keeping the Hockey Player's register

KHL CIB E-BASE
KHL information resource containing data on Hockey Players, their statuses, belonging to a Club participating in the Competition System or in a Club participating in the Championship of the Women’s Hockey League (WHL), their Contracts, Agents, information on coaches, Disciplinary
Committee cases, and schedules of Games of the Competition System and WHL Championship, and information on KHL Clubs' Sports Facilities, statistical and medical teams for the game of the clubs participating in the Competition System and the clubs participating in the WHL Championship

 

[powerplaymaker]

Where are all the annual promises about the KHL's western expansions?

I heard that from now on national hockey federations are not allowed to prevent teams from joining other leagues. Such as was the case with AIK when they tried to move to the KHL.

Are there any rumors around?

 

[Section Netherlands]

Where are all the annual promises about the KHL's western expansions?

I heard that from now on national hockey federations are not allowed to prevent teams from joining other leagues. Such as was the case with AIK when they tried to move to the KHL.

Are there any rumors around?

Where did you hear that? About not being allowed to prevent teams from joining leagues.

 

[vorky]

Where are all the annual promises about the KHL's western expansions?

I heard that from now on national hockey federations are not allowed to prevent teams from joining other leagues. Such as was the case with AIK when they tried to move to the KHL.

Are there any rumors around?

It is a process and the league do not comment any rumours. They will just announce the results. They did the same with Jokerit.

Pandemic is an issue now because the league needs to check the arena & other infrastructure. With travel restrictions it is a bit complicated.

Morozov says the league is in contact with foreign teams. Just follow where they plan the KHL World Games & you will have a reply to your question. If speaking about Europe, they had the KHL World Games in Austria & Switzerland. Fasel confirming the talks between NL club & Swiss league & Swiss hockey federation. As for others, the KHL is in talks with Germany & Hungary who wish to host the KHL World Games. As I know Slovan´s owner should attend the KHL World Games to discuss the comeback. Of course, it is just the beginning of the talks.

We need to wait who will be elected the IIHF President & what will Fasel do. Btw, he was in Kazan yesterday, attending the Forum & Ak Bars game. He was accompanied by Morozov & likely Chernyshenko and other top officials.

 

[vorky]

Where did you hear that? About not being allowed to prevent teams from joining leagues.

I believe @powerplaymaker is speaking about the following

 

[Lackhalak]

It is a process and the league do not comment any rumours. They will just announce the results. They did the same with Jokerit.

Pandemic is an issue now because the league needs to check the arena & other infrastructure. With travel restrictions it is a bit complicated.

Morozov says the league is in contact with foreign teams. Just follow where they plan the KHL World Games & you will have a reply to your question. If speaking about Europe, they had the KHL World Games in Austria & Switzerland. Fasel confirming the talks between NL club & Swiss league & Swiss hockey federation. As for others, the KHL is in talks with Germany & Hungary who wish to host the KHL World Games. As I know Slovan´s owner should attend the KHL World Games to discuss the comeback. Of course, it is just the beginning of the talks.

We need to wait who will be elected the IIHF President & what will Fasel do. Btw, he was in Kazan yesterday, attending the Forum & Ak Bars game. He was accompanied by Morozov & likely Chernyshenko and other top officials.

This seems like positive news, What Europe has now is a mixed bag of garbage. I said it before I want to see teams like St. Petersburg SKA, Zurich Lions, Gothenberg Frolunda and Sparta Prague play each other in meaningful league games instead of playing teams in small towns. Funnel the best players in Europe into one league for the best product.

 

[Jussi]

Where are all the annual promises about the KHL's western expansions?

I heard that from now on national hockey federations are not allowed to prevent teams from joining other leagues. Such as was the case with AIK when they tried to move to the KHL.

Are there any rumors around?

If you're referring to the UEFA/Super League thing, then that was a Madrid court decision. That could still be contested at CAS by UEFA for example. And it's still onlya football related. It may not have any effect on hockey.

 

[Jussi]

This seems like positive news, What Europe has now is a mixed bag of garbage. I said it before I want to see teams like St. Petersburg SKA, Zurich Lions, Gothenberg Frolunda and Sparta Prague play each other in meaningful league games instead of playing teams in small towns. Funnel the best players in Europe into one league for the best product.

While screwing the other European leagues.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Where did you hear that? About not being allowed to prevent teams from joining leagues.

Between the case involving the ISU and the ruling for the European Super League teams, in the EU it’s been cleared to happen.

 

[vorky]

This seems like positive news, What Europe has now is a mixed bag of garbage. I said it before I want to see teams like St. Petersburg SKA, Zurich Lions, Gothenberg Frolunda and Sparta Prague play each other in meaningful league games instead of playing teams in small towns. Funnel the best players in Europe into one league for the best product.

The KHL is not in a position to expand at any costs. So, the league will accept just those foreign clubs who are bringing some benefits to the league. And of course, with stable financing.

As I said, the KHL World Games is a good indicator where they are looking at. Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Hungary, France. They are testing the market & showing the league´s product to potential new teams. We have no idea who is watching the games in VIP sky-boxes. I know for 1000% that Slovan & KHL are in contact, the clubs owner was invited to the KHL World Games & KHL ASG. Unfortunatelly, both events were cancelled due to pandemic. So, all taks were interupted. There could be much more such cases.

As for Switzerland. I believe I wrote about it. The biggest hinder now is a guarantee from the National League that unnamed NL club would play the NL in case of comeback from the KHL after a few years. You know, anything can happen, clubs are coming & leaving. So, the NL club does not want to re-start from the lowest Swiss league in case of comeback. I can imagine this could be a case in Germany as well.

Pandemic & IIHF election are a problem now. We need to wait a few weeks to know Fasel´s successor & Fasel future job. He plays an important role in all talks. It is not a coincidence that the KHL will have a huge delegation at IIHF Congress in St.Petersburg. We do not know what deals are made behind the closed doors.

As for pandemic. It does not make sense to expand now.

I recommend you to follow Morozov & Fasel statements. They do not comment in details, but all they say is 100% confirmed. They do not talk about the rumors as Medvedev did.

As for "screwing the other European leagues" What is better? To have a KHL team in Sweden or other strong euro league, with Swedish players & Swedish fans attending the games? Or having a KHL team in Hungary, whatever, with the same Swedish players (majority coming from SHL, so making the SHL weaker) & Hungarian fans attending the games?

 

[Lackhalak]

While screwing the other European leagues.

I think relegation is a pathetic system. Make a top league, all the other teams go in leagues that is next level down. Something like a hybrid of the AHL/WHL/OHL/QMJHL. Most Euro leagues would have good representation:
SHL - Frolunda, Djurgarden and Malmo
Liiga - Tampere Ilves, Jokerit and maybe TPS Turku
NLA - Zurich Lions, Bern SC, Geneva Servette(probably needs a better arena) and maybe Lausanne
DEL - Berlin Eisbaren, Kolner Haie, Munich Red Bull, Dusseldorf EG, Mannheim Adler and bring back Hamburg and possibly a few others
Czech - Sparta Prague, Ostrava Vitkovice Ridera and Brno Kometa (probably needs a new arena)
ICE - Vienna (I believe there is a new arena coming)
Tipos - Bratislava Slovan

 

[Lackhalak]

As for "screwing the other European leagues" What is better? To have a KHL team in Sweden or other strong euro league, with Swedish players & Swedish fans attending the games? Or having a KHL team in Hungary, whatever, with the same Swedish players (majority coming from SHL, so making the SHL weaker) & Hungarian fans attending the games?[/QUOTE]
To me its clear as day that having 3-4 teams from Sweden in the KHL would be amazing and by far the best product that Europe could offer.

 

[Rigafan]

No matter where the KHL ends up next I just hope we don't see another Kunlun disaster. Not the team but having a 'Beijing' team that never plays in China is getting abit silly now.

Personally I would like to see Austrian team, they could benefit from having a top tier team in the country to further progress and they have a very good league setup with ICE for a feeder team (if they all agreed to work together etc etc).

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

No matter where the KHL ends up next I just hope we don't see another Kunlun disaster. Not the team but having a 'Beijing' team that never plays in China is getting abit silly now.

Personally I would like to see Austrian team, they could benefit from having a top tier team in the country to further progress and they have a very good league setup with ICE for a feeder team (if they all agreed to work together etc etc).

Amazing how Togliatti and Yugra got demoted yet Kunlun sputter on.

Said if before, once the Olympics are over I think it may well be the same fate for them particularly if one or two Western/Central European teams join by then; to be honest they will be no loss to the KHL nor remembered fondly.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Amazing how Togliatti and Yugra got demoted yet Kunlun sputter on.

Kunlun, just like the KHL, is a political project which belongs in it meanwhile Yugra or Lada just do nothing. They have 0 impact or potential. Lada doesn't even manage to be truly competitive in the VHL.

 

[vorky]

No matter where the KHL ends up next I just hope we don't see another Kunlun disaster. Not the team but having a 'Beijing' team that never plays in China is getting abit silly now.

Personally I would like to see Austrian team, they could benefit from having a top tier team in the country to further progress and they have a very good league setup with ICE for a feeder team (if they all agreed to work together etc etc).

Budapest, Vienna, Slovan make sense. Even from bigger point of view. Vienna just needs to build a new arena.

This week a progress has been made from bigger picture.

 

[filip85]

I think relegation is a pathetic system. Make a top league, all the other teams go in leagues that is next level down. Something like a hybrid of the AHL/WHL/OHL/QMJHL. Most Euro leagues would have good representation:
SHL - Frolunda, Djurgarden and Malmo
Liiga - Tampere Ilves, Jokerit and maybe TPS Turku
NLA - Zurich Lions, Bern SC, Geneva Servette(probably needs a better arena) and maybe Lausanne
DEL - Berlin Eisbaren, Kolner Haie, Munich Red Bull, Dusseldorf EG, Mannheim Adler and bring back Hamburg and possibly a few others
Czech - Sparta Prague, Ostrava Vitkovice Ridera and Brno Kometa (probably needs a new arena)

sure...dream on...

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

Kunlun, just like the KHL, is a political project which belongs in it meanwhile Yugra or Lada just do nothing. They have 0 impact or potential. Lada doesn't even manage to be truly competitive in the VHL.

Fair point but Kunlun should be put out of its misery at some point.

Of course as you stated it's a political project and will falter on probably.