KHL business aspects discussion

[Rigafan]

Bernd Brukler. I actually really liked that book! Burned through it in a few days

Yes him! It's interesting read, for sure. You can just tell he was in it for the money though.

I'd advise to read, King of Russia by Dave King (new KUNLUN coach) if you haven't already.

 

[Jussi]

Btw, your country-mate Kemppainen must be really desperate to have signed AGAIN in the KHL
And Metsola! How could he survive in Khabarovsk till now

He's desperate? With the season he had? He's lucky Erkka wanted a Finnish player to UFA, otherwise he would be playing elsewhere in Europe.

 

[Rigafan]

According to Sports-express.ru


"Admiral" may not be allowed to participate in the season KHL-2017/18 because of wage arrears. Despite the assurances of the Vladivostok authorities that the debts to the players will be paid off before the end of the contracts (April 30), on the last working day of the month hockey players of the club were closed only in January. Thus, the club from Vladivostok should hockey players for February, March and April.

Earlier, general manager Ildar Mukhometov in an interview with "SE" said that these are temporary delays, which should not be taken seriously. On April 30, the deadline for submission of applications for participation in the next season of the KHL is completed, and clubs with debts can not be admitted to the tournament.

"Admiral" in the past season was the seventh in the Eastern Conference, and in the first round of the Gagarin Cup lost "Vanguard" (2-4). (Alexey SHEVCHENKO)

 

[IDiO]

Why do people here believe that KHL is trying to be a poorer version of NHL? No, nobody here wants to set salary caps, prevent clubs from buying players, or maintain rights until late in the career - all these things will do is make better (even relatively) players run away to North America as soon as they can. I understand that this would be in the interest of the NHL fans here but it would absolutely NOT be in the interest of Russian hockey.

Having a few teams with NHL-like budgets is fantastic, it allows them to keep a large number of Russian players at home, which might be extremely important next year when the Olympics roll around and Russia will have a team head and shoulders above the rest. The fact that smaller teams have no chance to win is not that big of a deal - this happens all over the place in football, and that doesn't make, say, Premiership a crappy league. KHL does what it's supposed to do. It will do even more than that as Russian financial situation improves and clubs get richer (they've already quadrupled their budgets over the last decade). If there's going to be 3-4 teams with budgets above the NHL salary cap - it will spell the end of Russian stars' participation in the NHL forever. There's no reason whatsoever for a player to go across the ocean to make less money, be in a foreign country, and be unable to participate in WC/Olympics. In fact, I can easily see a bunch of other Europeans avoiding North America too (for national team reasons, if nothing else).

 

[FissionFire]

If rumors are true several Russian KHL stars are wanting to move to NHL next season also so that will only weaken the Olympic team if true.

 

[IDiO]

If rumors are true several Russian KHL stars are wanting to move to NHL next season also so that will only weaken the Olympic team if true.

This happens every year - a few players move there, a few move back. Nothing to panic about. If it was, for example, 10 national team players suddenly packing the bags - people should get worried. As things stand, though - it's not anything too scary.

 

[IDiO]

I fail to see how one year shows the overall supremacy of Russian hockey over all of Europe when the two previous years Russia finished last in a four team tournament that you clearly see as worse than Russia. And youd have to go all the way back to 2013 for Russias last win...

Do I have to spell it out? Fine.

The strength of KHL (definitely the world's #2 league) in combination with a complete lack of NHL representation in the Olympics means that Russia is absolutely the favourite to win the Olympic Games. Look at the rosters for a few last WCs - who (out of the top hockey nations) had the fewest number of NHLers? Who has the largest amount of talent playing at home? Due to KHL, even Canada will be able to provide a semi-decent team for the Olympics, but it will obviously be nowhere near the Russian level.

 

[Jonimaus]

Do I have to spell it out? Fine.

The strength of KHL (definitely the world's #2 league) in combination with a complete lack of NHL representation in the Olympics means that Russia is absolutely the favourite to win the Olympic Games. Look at the rosters for a few last WCs - who (out of the top hockey nations) had the fewest number of NHLers? Who has the largest amount of talent playing at home? Due to KHL, even Canada will be able to provide a semi-decent team for the Olympics, but it will obviously be nowhere near the Russian level.

Congrats to Russia?

 

[Acallabeth]

MOD

Why do people here believe that KHL is trying to be a poorer version of NHL? No, nobody here wants to set salary caps, prevent clubs from buying players, or maintain rights until late in the career - all these things will do is make better (even relatively) players run away to North America as soon as they can. I understand that this would be in the interest of the NHL fans here but it would absolutely NOT be in the interest of Russian hockey.

I'm not sure what do you mean by interest of Russian hockey, but as a fan of both the KHL and the NHL I can assure you with utmost confidence that a more competitive and less predictable league would be beneficial to both league and the national team.

Having a few teams with NHL-like budgets is fantastic, it allows them to keep a large number of Russian players at home, which might be extremely important next year when the Olympics roll around and Russia will have a team head and shoulders above the rest. The fact that smaller teams have no chance to win is not that big of a deal - this happens all over the place in football, and that doesn't make, say, Premiership a crappy league. KHL does what it's supposed to do. It will do even more than that as Russian financial situation improves and clubs get richer (they've already quadrupled their budgets over the last decade). If there's going to be 3-4 teams with budgets above the NHL salary cap - it will spell the end of Russian stars' participation in the NHL forever. There's no reason whatsoever for a player to go across the ocean to make less money, be in a foreign country, and be unable to participate in WC/Olympics. In fact, I can easily see a bunch of other Europeans avoiding North America too (for national team reasons, if nothing else).

There are more factors than just money, it's not like these guys need to pay a 20 year loan for their apartments. Shipachyov has already left SKA for an expansion team where he will earn less and won't be able to play in the Olympic games, simply because he wants to play in the best league in the world. Reducing the KHL championship prestige by hoarding all good players in few wealthy teams will catalyze this process.

The idea that Russian teams' budgets will somehow grow a lot is an absurdity.

And stop with damned football comparisons already. The pool of good players is gigantic compared to hockey, the amount of club tournaments and trophies every year is immense, and there are several top leagues very close to each others' level. It has nothing to do with hockey.

 

[hansomreiste]

Why do people here believe that KHL is trying to be a poorer version of NHL? No, nobody here wants to set salary caps, prevent clubs from buying players, or maintain rights until late in the career - all these things will do is make better (even relatively) players run away to North America as soon as they can. I understand that this would be in the interest of the NHL fans here but it would absolutely NOT be in the interest of Russian hockey.

As a guy obsessed with KHL hockey, reading this gave me multiple heart attacks. Acallabeth described why this is such a horrible idea and to be honest, in a fair world, he wouldn't even have to do so. KHL is getting worse and worse in terms of competitiveness and when people know that their teams are going nowhere or who will play in the final, they pretty much lose interest and this is not what KHL wants. Love alone is not enough - %99 of hardcore KHL fans surely have better things to do than watch SKA & CSKA plow through the playoffs.

Sure, not every team will be competitive every year. There is no such perfect competition. However, I always believe that KHL needs at least four main contenders for the cup and four others that can make the break. Sure, there will be "main favorites" every year; but we need several teams at a close level so that things may look relevant. And this can only achieved by limiting the expenditure.

I don't see why you think this would make players run to NA. It's not like players in KHL will earn less - they will just have to spread across. Same players will receive similar amounts of money but at different clubs. SKA won't be able to pay to six superstars and some of them will have to go somewhere else. With hard cap, I'm sure more regional governments and sponsors would be interested in pumping money. Currently, many teams already know that they can't compete against the likes of SKA and CSKA, so they simply try to survive. When SKA will have to be "fair" though, then big bosses would be eager to put more money into icing a competitive team.

Hard cap won't weaken a few clubs; it will make the rest stronger. You don't need 10 superstars to be strong and losing a couple of them won't make you less strong. Unless some serious steps are made, KHL will soon turn into a bush league with only two different champions in ten years or so.

 

[IDiO]

MOD

I'm not sure what do you mean by interest of Russian hockey, but as a fan of both the KHL and the NHL I can assure you with utmost confidence that a more competitive and less predictable league would be beneficial to both league and the national team.

Well, let me be clear - years like this one are definitely not the best situation for the Russian national team or Russian hockey in general. SKA shouldn't remain the only KHL team that has a chance to win anything. There should be at least half a dozen teams with comparable budget and thus level of play. Nonetheless it's not like SKA was really far ahead of any other team - CSKA actually ended up ahead of them in the West. I'd be against setting up a "base team" for the Russian national team (following Dinamo Minsk/Riga example), but that doesn't mean that there should be a salary cap to force everyone to spend as much as the bottom half does - this would only lower the quality of play in the league.

There are more factors than just money, it's not like these guys need to pay a 20 year loan for their apartments. Shipachyov has already left SKA for an expansion team where he will earn less and won't be able to play in the Olympic games, simply because he wants to play in the best league in the world. Reducing the KHL championship prestige by hoarding all good players in few wealthy teams will catalyze this process.

Shipachyov just won the Gagarin Cup and now wants to try his luck across the ocean. It's a hockey decision, yes, but I wouldn't put up as an example of a general trend. Hoarding all good players is not the case. It could be so, and it would be terrible if it came to be so in the end, but I don't see it happening as of right now. There's at least a few teams that can afford to compete for the best players and "second-line stars" that are close to, but not quite at the national team level (and thus not at the multi-million level demands), can be afforded by most of the teams in the league.

The idea that Russian teams' budgets will somehow grow a lot is an absurdity.

Why? Do you really not think that Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kazan, and Omsk/Novosibirsk can't possibly raise as much money as some cities in the southern United States with zero hockey culture? I don't get it. NHL chooses to limit team budgets to what the poorest teams can afford - KHL doesn't. This means that Moscow etc. doesn't have to compete with Toronto, Montreal, and New York - just with Glendale and company.

And stop with damned football comparisons already. The pool of good players is gigantic compared to hockey, the amount of club tournaments and trophies every year is immense, and there are several top leagues very close to each others' level. It has nothing to do with hockey.

Of course there are differences between hockey and football. Obviously. But there's absolutely nothing in the world that demonstrates that the North American system has to be what hockey must run on. We'll see, I guess, but give KHL a few years to gain some traditions/popularity, and the comparison will be a lot more interesting than it is at the moment.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Shipachyov has already left SKA for an expansion team where he will earn less

Especially with the ruble going down and down...

 

[Urbanskog]

Do I have to spell it out? Fine.

The strength of KHL (definitely the world's #2 league) in combination with a complete lack of NHL representation in the Olympics means that Russia is absolutely the favourite to win the Olympic Games. Look at the rosters for a few last WCs - who (out of the top hockey nations) had the fewest number NHLers? Who has the largest amount of talent playing at home? Due to KHL, even Canada will be able to provide a semi-decent team for the Olympics, but it will obviously be nowhere near the Russian level.

That would be Finland.

 

[Acallabeth]

Especially with the ruble going down and down...

Well, yeah, ruble fell so much the USD excange rate is only 20 rubles lower than a year ago

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Well, yeah, ruble fell so much the USD excange rate is only 20 rubles lower than a year ago

Of course the situation kind of peaked last year, but it's unfortunately raising again. This means that NHL dollars are more and more valuable. You can't deny that.

 

[Acallabeth]

Of course the situation kind of peaked last year, but it's unfortunately raising again. This means that NHL dollars are more and more valuable. You can't deny that.

I can and I will, because it's not true. The USD/Ruble pairing started the year at 60+ and has been fluctuating at 57-59 since then. Sure, ruble may fall a bit, but let's talk about it when it actually happens.

And, regarding Shipachyov, if the reported $4M contract offer from SKA was close to reality (which seems likely with his season), $4.5M pre-taxes in Nevada would be less.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I can and I will, because it's not true. The USD/Ruble pairing started the year at 60+ and has been fluctuating at 57-59 since then. Sure, ruble may fall a bit, but let's talk about it when it actually happens.

And, regarding Shipachyov, if the reported $4M contract offer from SKA was close to reality (which seems likely with his season), $4.5M pre-taxes in Nevada would be less.

We'll see what happens. I hope to be wrong, but I think that the ruble will go down again, but we're fastly going OT here.

 

[Exarz]

I can and I will, because it's not true. The USD/Ruble pairing started the year at 60+ and has been fluctuating at 57-59 since then. Sure, ruble may fall a bit, but let's talk about it when it actually happens.

And, regarding Shipachyov, if the reported $4M contract offer from SKA was close to reality (which seems likely with his season), $4.5M pre-taxes in Nevada would be less.

There's no income tax in Nevada

 

[Acallabeth]

There's no income tax in Nevada

Right, but it's not the only tax Shipachyov will have to pay.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

There's no income tax in Nevada

There are still federal taxes, property taxes (i doubt foreign players pay them though since i dont think they'll buy a house there), etc.
But in the USA there are also a lot of ways not to pay too many taxes especially if you are a high-incomer.

 

[vorky]

http://en.khl.ru/news/2017/05/16/347224.html

 

[malkinfan]

No doubt the reduction in teams will strengthen the league but will be sad to see Novokuznetsk go. This will mean a lot less young guys in the league going forward, especially if Yugra goes (they have several big name prospects in the pipeline who likely going to see ice time as 18/19 year olds). This should at least, strengthen the VHL, make it a better league to develop in for young guys.

No mention of official deadlines for cuts for next year? Novokuznetsk put together a nice looking roster so far.

 

[hansomreiste]

I don't know why but I can't find the Russian version of the news about new strategy plan - it was way more comprehensive than the English version.

24 teams... There goes my Soviet dreams. How can you even have a "Kontinental" league with only 24 teams, 16 of which are probably going to be in play-off? It's even worse if you remove conferences. I wanted teams from maybe Berlin or Dresden. From Czech Republic. From Ukraine. From Poland.

What happened to "Visit Russia before it visits you" now? Was it all lies? I'm disheartened and disappointed. But anyways... Whatever floats KHL's boat.

 

[vorky]

@hansomreiste

KHL Development Strategy wont be published anywhere officialy, the same happened with previous Development Strategy. If you want to know the main goals of the Strategy, you have to read all statements of the league in Russian media & make conclusions for yourself. Following some credible hockey journalists would help.

Try read this

Back to the Strategy. It will be approved next week by KHL Board of Directors. And it is a plan for next seven years, not all reforms/changes will be made immidiately, within a year for example. There will be strict timetable.

Two main goals of the Strategy are increasing of level on ice product (and balance) & more revenues for the league and clubs. There is more ways how to achieve it, according to the KHL.

As was reported earlier, we know that international company has made an analysis for the KHL and recommended to reduce number of teams to 24 (15 Russian). Chernyshenko comfirmed it yesterday. As we know there are people-behind-the-scenes who dont want to reduce Russian teams, so it will be a big battle between the league and those people sooner than later. Of course, we dont know who will win. But back to 24 teams concept. The league wants to increase revenues (especially from TV deals, but also game days revenues & merchendising) and reduce costs (the clubs have overpaid average Russian players at the moment). How to increase the revenues? Of course better TV coverage & more interesting games or derbies if you want. As Chernyshenko said, the league divided clubs to brackets based on attendance & TV ratings. The 3% of the games have excelent results (attendance over 75% & rating around 500 000). The 58% of the games have attendance 59-74% of capacity of an arena. Some games are not even broadcasted in TV because there is no demand. So you have to cut teams which have zero value for the league. The league wants to reduce budget for players salaries (he said it can be reduced to 43% (of today) in 7th year of Strategy), but best 40 players would get more money (in 7th year) than now, and average salary would be 2,3 times bigger than in Europe (now it is 2,6). So, Russian average players would not be overpaid (because there would be less jobs for them) - another reason why to reduce number of teams, I mean Russian teams. The league considers hard salary cap (+ exclusion of star player from the cap like it was in past) and financial fair-play model.

As we know there is a decision of Russian President to decrease financing of PROFFESIONAL sport from federal/municipal budget or by state companies. The league counted budgets of all clubs and came to conclusion that 14% of budgets of all clubs combined is earn by clubs (match day etc) and rest, 86% comes from sponsors. These sponsors are private (MMG for example) or public (federal/municipal budget, state companies). The public financing is 52% of all budgets of all clubs combined. So the league and clubs have to do something to change it. But I am not so sure that some club managers are capable ot doing it. Who are not, will be out from league. When speaking about costs of teams it is 50/50 (player salaries vs front office/travelling/arena rent etc). So, the league wants to increase revenues and reduce costs. Of course, it would be easy for example to increase the prize of tickets etc like in NA, but it is not possible in Russia. Average NA fans spent 260 USD/month for "hobbies" (he used russian term развлечения - it includes cinema, sport events or subscribtion to channels etc), average Russian only 34 USD. Plus in Russia is not a tradition to pay for sport (for example to buy merchendising or subscribe the channel or khl.ru to be concrete)

To come back to less interesting clubs, or as I say clubs with zero value. Chernyshenko said that matches of such clubs are viewed (at arena + behind TV) less than 25 000 fans in whole Russia. He said that the gap between the wealthiest and poorest clubs is 8 times, in NHL it is 2 times.

Since 2017/18 the league will evaluate the clubs annually, there will be more conditions, he mentioned results on ice, attendance, TV ratings, financing from public sources (its decrease)

The league plans to expand to Asia and Europe, but newcomers must have big value for the league (marketing, image, TV deals, on ice product). If speaking about Asia, it is China, S.Korea and Japan. There is interest from traditional EU hockey countries (CZ, SUI, SWE, GER) and non-traditional EU hockey countries.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

24 teams is a joke. I'm not talking about adding or reducing Russian teams, just that we sould aim to 30-32 teams.
Nowadays the regular season is hardly of any use, with 24 teams and 16 making to the playoffs it will just be redicolous.