KHL business aspects discussion

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

(he used russian term развлечения)

"entertainment"

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

He said that the gap between the wealthiest and poorest clubs is 8 times, in NHL it is 2 times.

Does he really think that Toronto is like 2 times more than Arizona?
To be honest I'd be shocked if it was like that, I don't buy it. Surely it's not 8 times like in the KHL or other Euro leagues, but it can't be just two times.

 

[Jussi]

Does he really think that Toronto is like 2 times more than Arizona?
To be honest I'd be shocked if it was like that, I don't buy it. Surely it's not 8 times like in the KHL or other Euro leagues, but it can't be just two times.

I'm guessing (not looking at actual figures) but that may be based straight from salary cap and salary floor numbers.

 

[Rigafan]

24 teams is a joke. I'm not talking about adding or reducing Russian teams, just that we sould aim to 30-32 teams.
Nowadays the regular season is hardly of any use, with 24 teams and 16 making to the playoffs it will just be redicolous.

While its true they have to think long term. If they must make tough choices now that pay off in 5-7 years then its worth it for the league as a whole, surely?

I don't want to see any teams leave, especially Russian ones, but if its true with some games not even having local demand on TV then why are they in the top level?

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

While its true they have to think long term. If they must make tough choices now that pay off in 5-7 years then its worth it for the league as a whole, surely?

You're right of course, but our great expert Chernyshenko said "24 teams is the optimal" so I fear he means that in the long term
At this point they should just have the KHL having Moscow vs Leningrad, without playoffs as some old farts suggested earlier, I'm sure they will have the same as NHL budgets and all.
Too bad they won't have players nor fans

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

There is interest from traditional EU hockey countries (CZ, SUI, SWE, GER) and non-traditional EU hockey countries.

Chernyshenko is on drugs.
He wants to cut Russian teams because there is "no interest", and maybe to put a team in Milan or in London? We all seen how successful was Medvescak in the KHL, and it wasn't a bad idea in the start.

 

[vorky]

"entertainment"

Thx, I could not remember the word.

24 teams is a joke. I'm not talking about adding or reducing Russian teams, just that we sould aim to 30-32 teams.
Nowadays the regular season is hardly of any use, with 24 teams and 16 making to the playoffs it will just be redicolous.

Does he really think that Toronto is like 2 times more than Arizona?
To be honest I'd be shocked if it was like that, I don't buy it. Surely it's not 8 times like in the KHL or other Euro leagues, but it can't be just two times.

24 teams - It is an ideal scenario, we will see what reality will be. It is all about money and players market at the end of a day. This analysis is based on bussiness principles, therefore they have recommended to reduce number of teams. We know that some clubs have no value for the league (from bussiness point of view), Chernyshenko said it openly "Some clubs are not able to cover the costs for organising a match. They are not able to produce revenues, so we spend milliards of RUB for these clubs and give nothing from them. They only decrease overal level of the league" He also said that there are problems of debts from the same clubs all the time and the clubs have no desire to change it. So what should the league do with such clubs? If the league wants to be a serious bussiness, then the clubs have to try to develop. If they dont want, so let them go. If the league wants to be a social project, like Russians like to say, then OK - keep the clubs. Another problem is player market - simple, there is not the amount of good players for 29 teams (especially 21 Russian clubs). So, less jobs for players, better competition & on ice product, better deals with sponsors/TV broadcasters. I dont see a problem with 24 teams & 16 making playoffs. As we know the KHL has a problem with schedulling (breaks for EHT, WCH) and the schedule problems wont dissapear in near future, so regular season will end in February as now. It is better if 8 teams dont make playoffs than 13-14 teams not making PO. On the other hand I agree that KHL´s aim should be to have 30 or so teams (even Chernyshenko has said it multiple times in past), so they can still expand from 24 to 30 in future if there are good enough newcomers/clubs. If I were KHL, I would reduce number of teams now, strengthen the remaining clubs from bussiness point of view and then expand to 30.

The gap - I dont know how they counted it, I just quoted the interview. As I know they compared all hockey leagues from Europe & NHL, so they have some data. Maybe they took into consideration only player budgets, so there is not a big gap between Toronto and Arizona player budgets because of salary cap & floor in NHL.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I dont see a problem with 24 teams & 16 making playoffs.

The KHL has problems of predictability and actual regular season usefulness with 29 teams, with 24 it would be even more polarized. In the latest years of the RSL we had 19 teams and 16 playoff spots, we want to get back to that nonsense????

 

[Exarz]

You're right of course, but our great expert Chernyshenko said "24 teams is the optimal" so I fear he means that in the long term
At this point they should just have the KHL having Moscow vs Leningrad, without playoffs as some old farts suggested earlier, I'm sure they will have the same as NHL budgets and all.
Too bad they won't have players nor fans

As of the current economical situation, I would rather have 20 teams than 24. Kick out Vityaz, Severstal, Avtomobilist, Lada, Neftekhimik, Yugra, Kuznya and Sibir/Torpedo and keep that amount of teams until a serious expansion candidate comes up (not London, Milano, etc.).

And change the schedule to 6x4 games in your division, 4x4 in the other division and 1x10 in the other conference = 54 games.

To keep the playoff spots down, they could change the amount of teams to 6 in each conference instead of 8. Let the division winners quality directly for the conference semifinals.

 

[vorky]

predictability - If the league did not do anything else, only reduce teams to 24, then it woud be a problem. But if I get it, they want to achieve more parity.

@Exarz

I get your point, but I would not kick Avtomobilist, Sibir and Torpedo. All are from big cities, especially E-burg & Novosibirsk. All teams have potential to grow long term, especially if they get new arenas. Sibir has one of best, if not the best, TV ratings from Russian teams. Yes, Sibir has financial problems, but I see a potential here, which can not be said about rest of teams you mentioned.

 

[Jussi]

The KHL has problems of predictability and actual regular season usefulness with 29 teams, with 24 it would be even more polarized. In the latest years of the RSL we had 19 teams and 16 playoff spots, we want to get back to that nonsense????

Reduce the number of palyoff teams. Introduce a wildcard round, like many other European leagues are using now. That would reduce season length and help with scheduling and national teams when players aren't fatigued due to the short off-season.

 

[BalticWarrior]

There is no way Dinamo Rīga survives this contraction. Our on ice product has been garabage for past few seasons, perennial bottom-feeders.

 

[hansomreiste]

I'm tired of thanking vorky but he keeps delivering awesome piece of news. Thanks again, amazing job!

The detailed plans are also on KHL website in English now but there is not much to add on top of what vorky has already shared here.

I for one am delighted with what I've read. Honestly, even though I'm in love with almost anything related to Russia, I never believed KHL would get its **** together and start smarter planning for a better-structured, stable league; this is not something Russian lads are known for. However, it seems that those guys are literally working on every aspect we have been discussing about here since forever.

If they can actually put their plans into work, then we will have a very very strong competition soon. There is not a single point for me to argue - everything they plan to do is very beneficial for this league. I'd kill myself if they removed my Amur, Admiral, Torpedo, Sibir and Avto but I doubt they'd do such a crazy thing. All those teams (except Amur and Avto) do fairly well in general and most of them have very solid fan support.

Time to kick Yugra, Vityaz, Severstal, Novokuznetsk and possibly add some good/profitable teams from new markets. It's time for the revolution, rebyata!

 

[vorky]

That is great the league published the news in english as well. Good for english speaking fans.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I'm tired of thanking vorky but he keeps delivering awesome piece of news. Thanks again, amazing job!

The detailed plans are also on KHL website in English now but there is not much to add on top of what vorky has already shared here.

I for one am delighted with what I've read. Honestly, even though I'm in love with almost anything related to Russia, I never believed KHL would get its **** together and start smarter planning for a better-structured, stable league; this is not something Russian lads are known for. However, it seems that those guys are literally working on every aspect we have been discussing about here since forever.

If they can actually put their plans into work, then we will have a very very strong competition soon. There is not a single point for me to argue - everything they plan to do is very beneficial for this league. I'd kill myself if they removed my Amur, Admiral, Torpedo, Sibir and Avto but I doubt they'd do such a crazy thing. All those teams (except Amur and Avto) do fairly well in general and most of them have very solid fan support.

Time to kick Yugra, Vityaz, Severstal, Novokuznetsk and possibly add some good/profitable teams from new markets. It's time for the revolution, rebyata!

Avto has got money this year. They will also get a new arena sooner or later and EKT is a great city. They are certainly a team that won't be disbandled, quite the contrary, I think they are one of the teams that will be great in the future.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

I heard KHL is reducing the number of teams to 24. What teams are they eliminating? I cannot seem to find the answer on the KHL website.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I heard KHL is reducing the number of teams to 24. What teams are they eliminating? I cannot seem to find the answer on the KHL website.

No, it's just discussions. I think that there won't be any shrinking this year excluding Medvescak which already announced that they will be playing in the EBEL. Metallurg Nk may be in touble too. I have heard that this may be the latest season for Yugra, perhaps that's the reason why they got Zakharkin, so they maybe will ahve a good team and convince the boards to let them stay.
At this point it's a huge "WIP".

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

There is no way Dinamo Rīga survives this contraction. Our on ice product has been garabage for past few seasons, perennial bottom-feeders.

I think that Riga is an interesting option for the KHL. The team has a tight budget unfortunately, but it doesn't seem to be debts and these ugly things.
I am all for Riga in and I do hope that you guys will ice again a competitive team. Sad to see Cibulskis go but maybe he felt it was the right time for a change.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

No, it's just discussions. I think that there won't be any shrinking this year excluding Medvescak which already announced that they will be playing in the EBEL. Metallurg Nk may be in touble too. I have heard that this may be the latest season for Yugra, perhaps that's the reason why they got Zakharkin, so they maybe will ahve a good team and convince the boards to let them stay.
At this point it's a huge "WIP".

Why would Metallurg be in trouble? They're one of the top teams in the league, and they bring revenue.

 

[vorky]

Why would Metallurg be in trouble? They're one of the top teams in the league, and they bring revenue.

You are speaking about Metallurg Magnitogorsk (runner up this season & champion 2016), Alessandro speaking about Metallurg Novokuznetsk

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

You are speaking about Metallurg Magnitogorsk (runner up this season & champion 2016), Alessandro speaking about Metallurg Novokuznetsk

Ohh......but that means one city has two teams? Well, I guess that makes sense, given the fact the NHL has two New York teams.

 

[bordshockeypampen]

Ohh......but that means one city has two teams? Well, I guess that makes sense, given the fact the NHL has two New York teams.

No, it's Magnitogorsk and Novokuznetsk that are the city names. So it's more like Carolina Panthers and Florida Panthers, but in the same league.

 

[vorky]

As bordshockeypampen said, it is two different cities, only both clubs have the same name (Metallurg). It is like with all Dinamos - Dinamo Minsk (Belarus), Dynamo Moscow (Russia) and Dinamo Riga (Latvia). If we look at soccer then we have Slovan Bratislava (Slovakia) and Slovan Liberec (Czech rep)

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

No, it's Magnitogorsk and Novokuznetsk that are the city names. So it's more like Carolina Panthers and Florida Panthers, but in the same league.

As bordshockeypampen said, it is two different cities, only both clubs have the same name (Metallurg). It is like with all Dinamos - Dinamo Minsk (Belarus), Dynamo Moscow (Russia) and Dinamo Riga (Latvia). If we look at soccer then we have Slovan Bratislava (Slovakia) and Slovan Liberec (Czech rep)

I understand now. Thank you both.

 

[Rigafan]

I think that Riga is an interesting option for the KHL. The team has a tight budget unfortunately, but it doesn't seem to be debts and these ugly things.
I am all for Riga in and I do hope that you guys will ice again a competitive team. Sad to see Cibulskis go but maybe he felt it was the right time for a change.

This move seems odd, sure he has his reasons but it can't be financial ones?

I don't ever see Riga leaving the league. They 'make' money and we know the owner and Putin are close friends, it's just a shame we don't recuit well anymore