KHL business aspects discussion

[vorky]

KHL has added Ernst & Young as supplier to league´s sponsors banner at the bottom of the website. But no Hankook Tire yet.

 

[vorky]

 

[Jonimaus]

Hm maybe SHL clubs should join KHL, I mean Jokerit seem to be doing amazing financially, as most KHL clubs are, right?

 

[Acallabeth]

Hm maybe SHL clubs should join KHL, I mean Jokerit seem to be doing amazing financially, as most KHL clubs are, right?

Jokerit's travel expenses must exceed all of the SHL club's combined though.

 

[Rigafan]

Coming from the attendence thread is anybody able to give some reasons why Russians, or at least Russian hockey teams, seem to tbe so bad at marketing?

Teams like CSKA should be more accessible to fans from all over the world, and especially Kunlun, sure they seem like a bit of a novelty item at the moment but that still translates into interest, that they should be taking advantage of!

I remember when I first went to Riga ages back. I asked "why isn't Dinamo more obvious in the city" the reply was "we don't need to be reminded that we have hockey here" - sure I get that but it seems odd we have the 2nd league in the world and barely any spotlight.

My view is that because of how the leagues and sports are run, in Russia especially, the teams don't really need the exposure or the fans as the money for a team like CSKA will always be available?

 

[vorky]

Coming from the attendence thread is anybody able to give some reasons why Russians, or at least Russian hockey teams, seem to tbe so bad at marketing?

Teams like CSKA should be more accessible to fans from all over the world, and especially Kunlun, sure they seem like a bit of a novelty item at the moment but that still translates into interest, that they should be taking advantage of!

I remember when I first went to Riga ages back. I asked "why isn't Dinamo more obvious in the city" the reply was "we don't need to be reminded that we have hockey here" - sure I get that but it seems odd we have the 2nd league in the world and barely any spotlight.

My view is that because of how the leagues and sports are run, in Russia especially, the teams don't really need the exposure or the fans as the money for a team like CSKA will always be available?

You replied to yourself with last paragraph.

I think the attitude of KHL, especially Russian, clubs towards marketing have been changing since Chernyshenko came to office. But you can not change the system within a year or two.

I read an interview of Lada´s PR lady, the club hired her in 2016, and she said: "When I came to Togliaty for the first time, there was no ads of hockey/Lada in the city." Lada organised very clever, I would say, marketing campaign in the city after she came to office - bilboards on busses. The club has made a campaign on social media at the same time - "make a picture of yourself with great Lada busses" Seems it was succesful because the club had cca 10k fans on VKontakt before campaign and cca 30k fans now. That is what she said, I can give you a link to russian website.

Another article is with President of Ak Bars (he is boss of Tatarstan Hockey Fed and guy from Tatneft at the same time), he came to office before season. He said that one of his goals for next 2-3 years is to make Ak Bars an entity/company which will make money. They plan to rebrand the club as well. As I know rebranding worked for Amur (and maybe other clubs as well, but I am not aware of it), fans started to buy merchendasing.

Chernyshenko´s main idea/goal is to make KHL and its clubs more financially stable (profitable if possible). I dont know details, they are preparing new 7y KHL strategy of development, where should be written such things. As I know, the league with clubs want to prepare bussiness plans for every club. It is related to new strategy. It is easy to say or write an strategy, harder to do in real world.

Attendance - there were interesting points in russian press about attendance of regular season. KHL has had biggest attendance in 14/15, it was a season when the clubs played only one game vs teams from opposite conference. Since then, the clubs have played two such games. You know, fans from Kazan want to watch their team to play against Ufa not Slovan for example. More games with rivals, more fans at arena, better TV ratings. The problem is with european clubs, there are not long term rivarlies for euro clubs - the league could solve it with accepting Sparta Prague (would be great for Slovan and local press/fans), can not speak about Finland, but maybe some classic swedish club like AIK would help. Some clubs asked the league in Dec 2016 to change the schedule for next season - another reason for it is saving money for travelling. We have to wait what KHL will do.

 

[Rigafan]

You replied to yourself with last paragraph.

I think the attitude of KHL, especially Russian, clubs towards marketing have been changing since Chernyshenko came to office. But you can not change the system within a year or two.

I read an interview of Lada´s PR lady, the club hired her in 2016, and she said: "When I came to Togliaty for the first time, there was no ads of hockey/Lada in the city." Lada organised very clever, I would say, marketing campaign in the city after she came to office - bilboards on busses. The club has made a campaign on social media at the same time - "make a picture of yourself with great Lada busses" Seems it was succesful because the club had cca 10k fans on VKontakt before campaign and cca 30k fans now. That is what she said, I can give you a link to russian website.

Another article is with President of Ak Bars (he is boss of Tatarstan Hockey Fed and guy from Tatneft at the same time), he came to office before season. He said that one of his goals for next 2-3 years is to make Ak Bars an entity/company which will make money. They plan to rebrand the club as well. As I know rebranding worked for Amur (and maybe other clubs as well, but I am not aware of it), fans started to buy merchendasing.

Chernyshenko´s main idea/goal is to make KHL and its clubs more financially stable (profitable if possible). I dont know details, they are preparing new 7y KHL strategy of development, where should be written such things. As I know, the league with clubs want to prepare bussiness plans for every club. It is related to new strategy. It is easy to say or write an strategy, harder to do in real world.

Attendance - there were interesting points in russian press about attendance of regular season. KHL has had biggest attendance in 14/15, it was a season when the clubs played only one game vs teams from opposite conference. Since then, the clubs have played two such games. You know, fans from Kazan want to watch their team to play against Ufa not Slovan for example. More games with rivals, more fans at arena, better TV ratings. The problem is with european clubs, there are not long term rivarlies for euro clubs - the league could solve it with accepting Sparta Prague (would be great for Slovan and local press/fans), can not speak about Finland, but maybe some classic swedish club like AIK would help. Some clubs asked the league in Dec 2016 to change the schedule for next season - another reason for it is saving money for travelling. We have to wait what KHL will do.

Thanks for the info Vorky! Always a pleasure to read your news!

Its interesting you mentioned Lada. I was recently in Riga and a Russian guy didn't even know who Dinamo Riga were, said hes from Moscow and doesn't like hockey. I mentioned that Riga are playing a Russian team from Tolyatti and in instantly knew who they are, haha! Looks like this PR lady is earning her salary (or maybe he was just humoring me)

I have to agree with the fans on having more games vs local rivals and conference/division. Sure its fun when Riga play say Admiral but you have to feel for the players. Just been on a 16 hour flight or whatever it is and have to play at the level the league demands.

I like the idea of teams becoming more of a business, it might drive them to improve exposure and accessibility to the many non Russian speaking fans the league has.

 

[vorky]

I think that KHL and clubs, at least some of them, are aware of potential in non-Russian speaking regions of the world. That is a reason, in my opinion, why the KHL and clubs are very active on Twitter. Yes, they use Russian in tweets as well, but the Twitter is mainly english speaking network & easy to share in media. For example, Slovan is tweeting in english only (Twitter not so popular in Slovakia).

When speaking about Slovan, bussiness related topic.

Richard Lintner, CEO of Slovak Extraliga, was interviewed by Denník Šport. He complained that Slovan has finished the season so early, „it is unacceptable for me“ he said. „Slovan should stop playing nonsense games against teams whose fans dont know players nor name of clubs. There is played a great hockey theater in Bratislava, but Slovan fans are losing rivarly. There is no true derby for Slovan in KHL,“ he added. „KHL does not have such great atmosfere, as in Slovan´s games, in majority of arenas or games. KHL without Slovan, Jokerit, Dinamos Riga & Minsk would be average weak russian league,“ Lintner said and thinsk that Slovan B in slovak league would not be good enough to be in better part of the table.

Maroš Krajčí, Slovan GM, replied to Lintner via club´s website. I am translating important part of the reply.

-Lintner has no right to speak about Slovan, only Slovan´s front office & loyal fans have. Lintner has no connection to Slovan, he is the one who is regularly asking for VIP tickets to watch sold-out Slovan´s games in Bratislava.

-so called „unacceptable“ Slovan´s games in KHL when the club had no chance to make playoff was attended by more fans than ALL games of slovak extraliga combined at the time of finishing of regular season.

-games against clubs from seven KHL countries, which Slovan´s fans acc. to Lintner even dont know, have been attended in average over 3000 fans more than Slovan´s games in slovak league. Not to mention that Slovan KHL tickets are double/tripple more expensive than Slovan´s slovak league tickets.

-KHL is now great global league, the difference among slovak league and KHL has been increasing every season. KHL does not deal with meaningless issues like clean nets behind goals, jerseys without ads, clean boards – but selling global TV rights, expanding to new & lucrative markets or helping to clubs sponsors to promote their brands on Russian and other markets on B2B principle.

- Why should Slovan´s fans want to exchange cultural and tolerant enviroment at arenas in Peterburg, Yaroslavl, Moscow, Ufa, Kazan, Omsk etc, where are standing ovations for players after every game, for yelling during so called debry games at slovak arenas, where the most famous chant is „HC Slovan f..ing Bratislava“, even after five years since Slovan has left the slovak league.

-There is ongoing complain about early finish of Slovan´s season. But you are forgeting the fact that Slovan players played first real game already 27 July and first regular season game 20 day later, so earlier than european including slovak leagues even started. Slovan players have played more than 70 games, which is more than many players of european clubs will have on their belts in mid March. Slovan had biggest injury record this season, but with 85 points and 29 wins we would make KHL playoff last season and KHL Eastern Conference playoff current season.

-There are not official talks about Slovan B playing slovak league.

-Lintner should not call in question the Slovan´s participation in KHL and the league as a whole. Maybe he have forgotten that he played three seasons in KHL and some great slovak players like Šatan, Višňovský, Demitra or stars like Kovalchuk, Datsyuk, Jágr, Cheechoo have connected their carreers in KHL too.

Original source sport.sk & hcslovan.sk

 

[klooo2power]

Is the information below available for 2015-16 or 2016-17(likely too soon) seasons?

http://en.khl.ru/news/2015/10/08/237668.html

I am curious how the TV revenues are trending.

 

[vorky]

Is the information below available for 2015-16 or 2016-17(likely too soon) seasons?

http://en.khl.ru/news/2015/10/08/237668.html

I am curious how the TV revenues are trending.

I will give you sums in rubles

14/15 - 114 million rubles, source
15/16 - over 243 million rubles, source
16/17 - it is too early, but plans are not less than last season (243 million rubles)

80% of TV money is shared with clubs, the league keeps rest 20%. If your club is more successful on ice & have better tv demand, so the club will get more money.

 

[vorky]

Does anybody follow Weibo? I found Kunlun´s account here, but dont know how many fans/followers they have here, can not speak chinese... I am not sure, but it seems the club has 58306 followers right now.

http://www.weibo.com/p/1006065972903158/home?from=page_100606&mod=TAB&is_hot=1#place


Jokerit´s account on Weibo

http://www.weibo.com/jokerit?refer_flag=1005050010_&is_hot=1

 

[Acallabeth]

So, a new Fetisov interview to sport-express featured sane ideas of hard salary cap with open payrolls, attempting to create a more equal playing field, encourage players staying on their teams, find out the really talented managers and coaches and so on. He suggest to implement this system for at least 5 years and reassess the effects afterwards.

http://www.sport-express.ru/hockey/...-khl-nuzhen-zhestkiy-potolok-zarplat-1222877/

As I have repeatedly stated, this is a necessary move to make the inner competition more intense and the middle of the road clubs more attractive for fanz and players. At least no more concussed talks about binding players to the league until 28.

 

[vorky]

I dont agree with Fetisov at all.

Yeah, it is a "necessary move to make the inner competition more intense", all clubs must get to SKA level, not Neftekhimik´s. That is the problem that many journalists and some hockey "experts" want to "fine" SKA by hard salary cap and want to decrease the level of the league to Nefthekhimik´s level.

 

[Rigafan]

I dont agree with Fetisov at all.

Yeah, it is a "necessary move to make the inner competition more intense", all clubs must get to SKA level, not Neftekhimik´s. That is the problem that many journalists and some hockey "experts" want to "fine" SKA by hard salary cap and want to decrease the level of the league to Nefthekhimik´s level.

I agree. SKA Should be being praised and not punished for what they have done and are doing! A good team, good product, entertaining hockey and a full arena pretty much every game!

However if teams start chasing SKA and inflating their own budgets when it's not manageable it could lead to a few problems down the line.

 

[vorky]

I agree. SKA Should be being praised and not punished for what they have done and are doing! A good team, good product, entertaining hockey and a full arena pretty much every game!

However if teams start chasing SKA and inflating their own budgets when it's not manageable it could lead to a few problems down the line.

I dont want all clubs to start overpaying players or something like that. I want all clubs to work better with fans to get them to arena. Develop marketing, merchandising, tv product. Yeah, it costs some money, but comparing to clubs budget, it is not so much. To be fair, tv product depends on regional broadcaster resources (crew & equipment).

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yeah, it is a "necessary move to make the inner competition more intense", all clubs must get to SKA level, not Neftekhimik´s

Yes because that's realistic. Also there is no way you can craft an All-Star team under the salary cap, just look at the NBA. Oh wait...

 

[SoundAndFury]

I agree. SKA Should be being praised and not punished for what they have done and are doing! A good team, good product, entertaining hockey and a full arena pretty much every game!

And it shouldn't bother us at all they are creating that product by destroying everyone else's, am I right? Because taking Amur's first pairing D to be your 7th defenseman is in no way bad for Amur, yes? Much praise, much talent, throwing money at everyone's face.

Like vorky is saying, "develop merchandising". The fact that your leader will play somewhere else next year kinda hurts that, you know. The current system as it is works for destroying, not growing the small markets. But it should be praised for that, no worries.

 

[vorky]

I was not speaking about transfer policy when comparing rest of KHL clubs to SKA, but about marketing & stuff like that.

I know that average players are overpaid, the KHL knows it as well. Therefore KHL has decreased salary cap.

I am not sure how Chernyshenko thought his idea of financial fair play, but it could be interesting.

I will use example of Shalunov & Sibir. What is better for KHL ... if Sibir can not afford him anymore? There are basicaly two options - other KHL club or NHL. I am for other KHL club.

If SKA can afford to pay more money to their players, do that. No problem, especially if the club pays some tax to the league. Ok, league could share this money with poorer clubs. But still, weaker club gets tranfer fee from player´s new club.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I will use example of Shalunov & Sibir. What is better for KHL ... if Sibir can not afford him anymore? There are basicaly two options - other KHL club or NHL. I am for other KHL club.

Point is that a lot of KHL teams are able to pay what the NHL teams would, very few players move there for money. Even very same Sibir are paying Salak over 1 mil euros. All big teams have plenty of money, the problems is that SKA collects players so easily because they have more than plenty.

 

[Acallabeth]

Most KHL teams should definitely learn from SKA's marketing and other stuff. There's no other team with an unlimited amount of money and a 5-million city with no competition though.

I know that average players are overpaid, the KHL knows it as well. Therefore KHL has decreased salary cap.

<...>

I will use example of Shalunov & Sibir. What is better for KHL ... if Sibir can not afford him anymore? There are basicaly two options - other KHL club or NHL. I am for other KHL club.

If SKA can afford to pay more money to their players, do that. No problem, especially if the club pays some tax to the league. Ok, league could share this money with poorer clubs. But still, weaker club gets tranfer fee from player´s new club.

This is a dangerous logic that, having spread among the league's management, can cause an irreversible damage to the league.

Your Shalunov example is an excessive simplifiation of his situation and creating a false choice. What does it mean that "Sibir can't afford him", what do they pay him, how much does he deserve? What are he standards in the league? We don't know, and this is why we need an open payroll to even have a reasonable discussion about it. Also, this is the 1st time I see the idea that the salary cap is reduced because the players are overpaid. In fact, it was already done becuse the disparity in the league started to go too far, and also, why don't you hate this decision? It definitely means less money for the players, so they would leave the KHL.

There's also another layer of the problem. For us hockey fans, teams are essential, but for those who aren't, they are nothing more than a huge burden on the regional budgets. Most clubs aren't in a position to earn as much as they have to spend.

Next, creating an oligocentric league, that encourages a couple of teams spending so much more than the others, ends up with the rest of the league ceasing to be a competition for them. We will see what happens this year, but it's not a bold move to predict the few heavyweights (SKA, CSKA, Magnitka) to be in the tier of their own. If this situation continues, what are most of the teams playing for? For the honor of being the best feeeder team?
Why are foreign players going to sign with a team with no championship ambitions and no money?
Why would the fans stay interested in the teams?
Why would teams invest in growing new players, who won't cover their expenses of supporting a hockey school?
There will be no answer for any of those questions, so the teams will irrevocably split in wealthy and poor, with poor gradually going out of the league.

I will agree that it will be a god idea, if the luxury tax is put at like 300%. Now that will help the league. If the tax is mostly symbolic, I don't see how it helps anything.

Point is that a lot of KHL teams are able to pay what the NHL teams would, very few players move there for money. Even very same Sibir are paying Salak over 1 mil euros. All big teams have plenty of money, the problems is that SKA collects players so easily because they have more than plenty.

A fringe NHL player like Yakupov is getting $2.5M this year, Tarasenko's salary is $8M this season, Bobrovsky's is $8.5M. Panarin signed a $6M/year contract recently. Even with the taxes factor, what lot of the KHL teams would be willing to pay them that amount of money?

 

[SoundAndFury]

A fringe NHL player like Yakupov is getting $2.5M this year, Tarasenko's salary is $8M this season, Bobrovsky's is $8.5M. Panarin signed a $6M/year contract recently. Even with the taxes factor, what lot of the KHL teams would be willing to pay them that amount of money?

If you make it, sure. But in cases of unproven players (like Plotnikov, Shalunov, etc.) and current NHL cap situation there aren't many teams that would offer KHLer more than 2 mil. in actual salary. Not to mention, that since most of those (just like Plotnikov and Shalunov) need to sign an ELC they can't get more than 925k in actual salary. And there is plenty of teams in the KHL that can afford that. especially considering taxes.

 

[ermolli]

Slovan Bratislava Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/hcslovan/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf

Slovan Bratislava thanks WINGAS GmbH for support as main club sponsor position in the season 2016/2017. Slovan wish company succesfully start on the slovakian market in the summer.

So, question: will cooperation continue?

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Point is that a lot of KHL teams are able to pay what the NHL teams would, very few players move there for money. Even very same Sibir are paying Salak over 1 mil euros. All big teams have plenty of money, the problems is that SKA collects players so easily because they have more than plenty.

The league must create not a hard cap, but a hard limit in number of players.
CSKA and SKA have how many players? 40 each? I understand that we need to support MHL too, then they should create some rule similar to the NHL, after 10 games you're counted.

 

[Rigafan]

Slovan Bratislava Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/hcslovan/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf

Slovan Bratislava thanks WINGAS GmbH for support as main club sponsor position in the season 2016/2017. Slovan wish company succesfully start on the slovakian market in the summer.

So, question: will cooperation continue?

WinGas also saved Riga this season. During the second to last game v Novokuz..

The whole lower tier seats where covered with WinGas logo posters, we got a free Dinamo Riga WinGas t-shirt on entry to the arena and the announcer also had us chanting "duh duh duh WINGAS!" Pretty odd experience

 

[habsturies]

one of the main keys to get a better league,is as the Nhl does,teams got the rights to local and farm players until 27 y/o.

Even with this,a prohibition of sale for money in this span,Just trade for the rights of
other players,but never for money.