KHL business aspects discussion

[vorky]

So the good news is that we know what is KHL´s plan. The league will evaluate teams every season, criteria are sport results, attendance, capacity of arena, share of state funding, debts, economical potential of local market, TV ratings, budget for players salaries. There will be a contraction of three teams next summer, so the league will have 24 teams. There will be a contraction of two teams in 2019/20, who will be replaced by two foreign teams. The same will happen the following year. So, we will have four new foreign teams by 2020.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Tretyak said Kuznya's management have themselves to blame for their exclusion which is somewhat true. But still, tough break to Kuznya.

So the good news is that we know what is KHL´s plan. The league will evaluate teams every season, criteria are sport results, attendance, capacity of arena, share of state funding, debts, economical potential of local market, TV ratings, budget for players salaries. There will be a contraction of three teams next summer, so the league will have 24 teams. There will be a contraction of two teams in 2019/20, who will be replaced by two foreign teams. The same will happen the following year. So, we will have four new foreign teams by 2020.

Or so they say. Because A LOT of things can change and this plan doesn't make sense right from get go. What are the 3 teams they kick next year? Yugra I can understand but kicking other 2, regardless of what they are, will cause a massive sh*tstorm as they either have to kick a competitive team (like Neftekhimik) or a foreign team (Riga). Neither of those make sense just for the sake of making league smaller.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Kicking Riga would be somewhat suicidal for the KHL from both ambitions and PR perspectives so the choices realistically are Severstal, Neftekhimik, Yugra, Lada and Vityaz.

Yugra obviously has to go in that case and it is for the best but others?

Neftekhimik has money, Vityaz is actually a decent team (and also has more money than it used to) with actually and ok attendance if they are winning, Severstal produces so many good players and also didn't have major financial problems.. Like I said, kicking some of those teams for no real reason would push it into opposite direction to where the league was going this whole time.

You can't say it's to "improve competitiveness" as lets face it, there are 3 competitive teams in this league and it's not like middle of the pack teams just roll over the bad ones.

 

[Rigafan]

It may be politics but they do have a serious project behind them, now that they're also into juniors, women, VHL, and all.

I agree and the project is so far, so good!

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Kicking Riga would be somewhat suicidal for the KHL from both ambitions and PR perspectives so the choices realistically are Severstal, Neftekhimik, Yugra, Lada and Vityaz.

Yugra obviously has to go in that case and it is for the best but others?

Neftekhimik has money, Vityaz is actually a decent team (and also has more money than it used to) with actually and ok attendance if they are winning, Severstal produces so many good players and also didn't have major financial problems.. Like I said, kicking some of those teams for no real reason would push it into opposite direction to where the league was going this whole time.

You can't say it's to "improve competitiveness" as lets face it, there are 3 competitive teams in this league and it's not like middle of the pack teams just roll over the bad ones.

Oddly enough, this time I agree with you.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I would also wish to add, that to me it's nuts to set a salary cap at 600 million rubles. As I wrote on twitter, this will have us the top players in the KHL being Maxim Pestushko and Ilya Mikeyev. With all the due respect to these players, of course.
Another nonsense.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Kicking Riga would be somewhat suicidal for the KHL from both ambitions and PR perspectives so the choices realistically are Severstal, Neftekhimik, Yugra, Lada and Vityaz.

Yugra obviously has to go in that case and it is for the best but others?

Neftekhimik has money, Vityaz is actually a decent team (and also has more money than it used to) with actually and ok attendance if they are winning, Severstal produces so many good players and also didn't have major financial problems.. Like I said, kicking some of those teams for no real reason would push it into opposite direction to where the league was going this whole time.

You can't say it's to "improve competitiveness" as lets face it, there are 3 competitive teams in this league and it's not like middle of the pack teams just roll over the bad ones.

I will just add another thing. Neftekhimik and Vityaz are a good team. At this point, Lada has little to offer to the league, unfortunately.
But the third team will be a tough decision imho, and probably it's not needed to cut other teams.
Although the haters are fantastic people they were *****ing left and right "we don't have enough good players for so many teams11!!1 Kolkhoz!1!"
Then lol when they actually cut a team, then they hate again

 

[hansomreiste]

Kicking Riga would be somewhat suicidal for the KHL from both ambitions and PR perspectives so the choices realistically are Severstal, Neftekhimik, Yugra, Lada and Vityaz.

Yugra obviously has to go in that case and it is for the best but others?

Neftekhimik has money, Vityaz is actually a decent team (and also has more money than it used to) with actually and ok attendance if they are winning, Severstal produces so many good players and also didn't have major financial problems.. Like I said, kicking some of those teams for no real reason would push it into opposite direction to where the league was going this whole time.

You can't say it's to "improve competitiveness" as lets face it, there are 3 competitive teams in this league and it's not like middle of the pack teams just roll over the bad ones.

What's wrong with kicking Lada out? They are not a competitive team and they never will be. Just your bottom six wanderers with low attendance and little money. I'm a huge fan of Lada cars and I absolutely love the fact that Togliatti has a team in KHL but let's face it, they are not going to become relevant. This is not NHL where smaller markets can do crazy stuff. And this is what's sad with KHL... You know some teams will never ever have a shot at winning it all, or even icing a competitive team that can surprise people. Just cut them. I'm not asking to have 20 contenders each season. It's impossible and it is not necessary. But all teams in a league may be able to do something at some stage. When you know you are doomed forever, there is no point in continuing. Contenders will change every year and if you can't become a contender ever, then simply you do not belong to this league.

 

[Milos Krasic]

I've stated many times how strongly I'm opposed to dumping Neftekhimik. I can concede Yugra, but not Neftekhimik.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

This is not NHL where smaller markets can do crazy stuff.

Well, what small-market teams did wonders? Carolina got a cup, I concede that, but it was just once in a lifetime. Arizona sucks year in and year out. Maybe Buffalo, but it's still in the New York state and frankly a lot of peolpe live in the area.
Most of what you can imagine as "small market" are 10x markets if compared to Europe.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I've stated many times how strongly I'm opposed to dumping Neftekhimik. I can concede Yugra, but not Neftekhimik.

I doubt that Neftekhimik will be excluded. I do hope that they won't.

 

[vorky]

We dont have exact data, so we have to believe what the league presents to us. The league published two slides to jounalists today. According to them, salaries of top 30 players have 17% share of all salaries & 151+ players (so average and worse) have share of 49% NOW. The plan is to have 29% share of top 30 & 36% of the worst players. So more money to the best players if comparing to status quo. That would mean that top players are not only in one or two teams like now, so more parity in the league. Yes, salary cap will be reduced by 1/3 but the clubs could exempt two stars from the salary cap. Btw, how many teams spend over 600 million Rubles on salaries now? I dont know, if there is only a few of them, so nothing serious will happen with reduction of salary cap. Yes, the players will continue going to NHL, but it should not be an exodus. According to KHL, NHL average salary is 5-times bigger than KHL´s now, if all goes according to the plan, NHL average salary will be 5,5-times bigger than in KHL.

 

[Caser]

Strange that noone mentioned Amur as a possible candidate to be kicked out yet.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Strange that noone mentioned Amur as a possible candidate to be kicked out yet.

I'd hate to have them kicked too. They've got a good fanbase, a decent stadium. Not too many debts either. We need definitely some teams on the east too.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Although the haters are fantastic people they were *****ing left and right "we don't have enough good players for so many teams11!!1 Kolkhoz!1!"

I think that argument made sense when SKA and CSKA didn't own 3 full sets of players and a lot of KHL clubs were potent to sign a very good SHL player, for example. In the old Lev, Donbass and Barys playing Kaspar and Novotny on their 3rd line days. Not anymore.

What's wrong with kicking Lada out?

As you can see from my previous post arguments for keeping Lada are obviously hard to find from the "what have you done to me lately" perspective. But they do have a new arena (which is still small) and are based in a big city so the market to make something out of them is there. But sure, they would be the easiest choice of those to kick, I guess.

Strange that noone mentioned Amur as a possible candidate to be kicked out yet.

I think having a team in their geographic location is just massive for the league considering possible further expansion to Asia. Not to mention that they do have one of the strongest fan bases in the league.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I think that argument made sense when SKA and CSKA didn't own 3 full sets of players and a lot of KHL clubs were potent to sign a very good SHL player, for example. In the old Lev, Donbass and Barys playing Kaspar and Novotny on their 3rd line days. Not anymore.

I don't follow you. That argument made little sense, if ever, just typical "fans" bipolarism

 

[kp61c]

I would also wish to add, that to me it's nuts to set a salary cap at 600 million rubles. As I wrote on twitter, this will have us the top players in the KHL being Maxim Pestushko and Ilya Mikeyev. With all the due respect to these players, of course.
Another nonsense.

where do you propose to get the money then?

 

[malkinfan]

IMO its not the worst thing for these cities. The teams go down to the VHL, dont become bottom feeders every year, maybe get more fans. Hockey can still grow, look at MHL game at Novokuznetsk, they sold out first time in many years for a MHL game. Teams can rebuild fanbase and interest if they are winning. also if over 3 years 5 KHL teams drop to the VHL, thats a solid addition to the VHL, who can also in turn, drop their dead weight. That league will become a stronger quality league.

1 thing is certain, there will be less young players appearing in the KHL. I am hoping VHL can capitalize on this, I expect to follow that league more if blue chip 18/19years olds start playing regular shifts there.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I don't follow you. That argument made little sense, if ever, just typical "fans" bipolarism

Well what's hard to follow, that argument somewhat made sense in 13/14, or around that time, when top teams seemed already stacked, Donbass was able to afford Dadonov and Sibir was able to afford Lehtera, Koskinen, Enlund, Kugryshev, Kopeikin and Koskiranta. There was a feeling that if Shipachyov and Chudinov moves to SKA there is just nothing on the market for Severstal to replace them. Or if Torpedo loses Varnakov and Makarov they have to bring in imports.

It's not bipolarism, that was the reality back in the day. People were just searching for a reason and explanations why Lev is playing in the finals and way richer Russian teams aren't.

Those were the days when you felt like mid-table team like Donbass or Avangard has an actual chance to win the cup. I mean it's crazy to remember now but SKA was always rich and yet Traktor played in the finals, Avangard played in the finals, Lev played in the finals, Dynamo played in the finals so many times, etc. Sense was that Lev or Donbass can be so good because they can shop in open market and have team full of Swedes and Finns. And that even low budget team like Medvescak can do OK because they can bring in whoever they like from NA. There were so many competitive teams and the feeling was they have to stay competitive or get even better but the small player pool limits their chances.

Now everyone is fine with the idea SKA or even CSKA is just miles away. You just don't have to worry about that stuff anymore when SKA's healthy scratches are better than your 1st line.

 

[joshyhockey26]

Been a fan of the league for a few years and the KHL section of this site helps me get a deeper understanding of the league. Hope to contribute more on here! My question is, say teams are moved to the VHL, do they have any chance to return to the KHL? Years down the road that is.

 

[vorky]

Been a fan of the league for a few years and the KHL section of this site helps me get a deeper understanding of the league. Hope to contribute more on here! My question is, say teams are moved to the VHL, do they have any chance to return to the KHL? Years down the road that is.

When you have bad market in NHL, so you will relocate Atlanta to Winnipeg. The KHL wants to divide the teams into two brackets - the teams with potential and those without potential, who will go to VHL. Right now I dont see any reasonable argument why excluded teams should come back to KHL after year or two. Yes, Lada and Spartak came back after one season in lower division, but now we are in different era. Novokuznetsk GM said after a meeting that he has a feeling that there is no way back. According to new strategy the league should have 15 Russian and 9 foreign teams. That is final goal - plus or minus one.

 

[joshyhockey26]

When you have bad market in NHL, so you will relocate Atlanta to Winnipeg. The KHL wants to divide the teams into two brackets - the teams with potential and those without potential, who will go to VHL. Right now I dont see any reasonable argument why excluded teams should come back to KHL after year or two. Yes, Lada and Spartak came back after one season in lower division, but now we are in different era. Novokuznetsk GM said after a meeting that he has a feeling that there is no way back. According to new strategy the league should have 15 Russian and 9 foreign teams. That is final goal - plus or minus one.

In the long run that makes sense. Hopefully the VHL keeps streaming games on YouTube. Hate to enjoy watching a particular team for them to move down to a league I can't follow all that closely.

 

[Headshot77]

24 teams is a joke. I'm not talking about adding or reducing Russian teams, just that we sould aim to 30-32 teams.
Nowadays the regular season is hardly of any use, with 24 teams and 16 making to the playoffs it will just be redicolous.

It's better to have a 24-team league that is healthy over a 30 team league that is failing.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Kunlun is very much politics

Yeah, it was strange to see a Chinese team in the KHL, when China is not that well-known for playing hockey.

 

[hansomreiste]

Well, what small-market teams did wonders? Carolina got a cup, I concede that, but it was just once in a lifetime. Arizona sucks year in and year out. Maybe Buffalo, but it's still in the New York state and frankly a lot of peolpe live in the area.
Most of what you can imagine as "small market" are 10x markets if compared to Europe.

What? Even the Ducks or the Preds are considered as small markets for NHL. I remember the times when Arizona/Phoenix were in playoff and my memory is not even that good. Again, when I'm talking about parity and competitiveness, I'm not suggesting that every team should have a chance to hoist the cup every other year. There is no such league. I just want KHL to have such a structure thanks to which all teams, at some point, could compete for the cup.

I have no problem seeing Colorado or Arizona in KHL; that's inevitable, some teams will be weaker than others. It's fine. I just want to see more of Nashville or Ottawa in that league, you know. Teams who can have a shot. Teams who can elevate themselves to the point of being able to have a shot at the cup.

Now, as things stand, we know Admiral can never ever see a conference final. I want this to change. I am not asking for Admiral to go to conference finals; I want a structure which could make their journey possible. It's their job to be or not to be there. I'm all about giving all teams equal opportunities and see what happens after that.

The steps that are being taken now are really promising. Sure, Russian & American lifestyles and economies are way different and this always needs to be kept in mind; but as can be seen, when the people in charge want it, some things can actually change. And come on, we are talking about RUSSIA here. Not a 45-min drive country where crossing border mistakenly is a normal thing. They have potential. They can do this with so many big cities and love for hockey. This is why I'm not happy with CSKA & SKA domination; I know this league can be way more competitive and enjoyable.

Oh by the way, first you need to kick me out of this world (and possibly jaco as well) before kicking Amur out of this league. Do not touch my leopards. I dare you. I double dare you.