Player Discussion: Kevin Shattenkirk

[LightningStrikes]

He's the hot topic in today's GDT. So far he has 1 goal + 1 assist for 2 points as well as 10 shots in 2 games played. 22:19 TOI in the 1st game, 24:36 in the 2nd game - both times the most among all TBL defensemen. Plays both PP and PK so far for us.

My eye test: He's creating a lot - in front of both goals unfortunately.

But in my opinion, let's give him time to settle in. We all remember McDonagh's first 20+ games in Tampa...

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[JoVel]

But in my opinion, let's give him time to settle in. We all remember McDonagh's first 20+ games in Tampa..

That's an unfair comparison for McDonagh. He joined mid season and as any d-man would, he had trouble adjusting to our system. Shattenkirk has had the whole summer to get ready.

As for him though, to put it shortly, good in the offensive zone, terrible in the defensive zone.

 

[Hoek]

McDonagh also came off a hand injury.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

I'm really confused at his usage. I don't know how in both games he's been playing more even strength and pk minutes than Hedman. Also I'd reel him in a little bit. Again I'm a little confused about how the talk in camp is on defense and limiting goals against and yet he has the ok to play a somewhat risky, aggressive style. He's a good fit offensively, but sometimes he tries to do a little too much.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Here's his average ice time compared to previous seasons:

TB 2020 - 23:27

NYR 2019 - 18:56
NYR 2018 - 20:16
WSH 2017 - 20:12
STL 2017 - 19:51

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

McDonagh also came off a hand injury.

We found out that it wasn't just a hand injury, Mac was also fighting a sports hernia. Had surgery in the off season and came back roaring the following season after a nice full training camp.

 

[Sky04]

Not sure why he's playing top minutes, surely there's a way to utilize his offensive skillset and limit his TOI. He isn't a 21 year old we need to wait develop, this is a 10 year vet. Once he settles into the system I see his offensive and transition game picking up even more because that's where his talent is, he has never been at good at defense and that won't magically fix itself 30 games later.

We should try him with McDonagh or Coburn, Cernak is reliable enough to play up and Sergachev playing high minutes is an investment because he's still developing.

 

[Bluesguru]

I kind of like Cooper giving top minutes to Shattenkirk right off the bat. He’s trying to get Shattenkirks confidence back and to be honest I think it’s working. I think he looks good. Great move by Cooper because if this works, he just picked up an all star defenseman. I agree, I’m a little shocked how he’s led the team in TOI. But I don’t think it will last. Coop is just trying to get Shatty going. Love him with Hedman. Top minutes is a stretch but there’s no doubt he should get 19 or 20 a gm.

 

[ccman68]

17-18 was pretty ugly but other than that he has always been good defensively. But hey maybe he is just really lucky with the analytics

 

[Bluesguru]

17-18 was pretty ugly but other than that he has always been good defensively. But hey maybe he is just really lucky with the analytics

When he puts his mind to it, he’s pretty decent. He stunk it up with the Caps and early on with Rangers because free agency went to his head. In fact you could see it in his last year with STL. But when he puts his mind to it, he’s not bad. And I expect him to play with an edge all year with Tampa.

 

[Sky04]

17-18 was pretty ugly but other than that he has always been good defensively. But hey maybe he is just really lucky with the analytics

Such great analytics is why he was bought out and on a 1 year contract...

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Such great analytics is why he was bought out and on a 1 year contract...

To indirectly quote Kenny Holland

" the analytics we use? we use our eye test analytics."

Shattenkirk is good. We are paying him a hair under 2 mil. Its a steal of a deal

 

[Coopers Gum]

I'm really confused at his usage. I don't know how in both games he's been playing more even strength and pk minutes than Hedman. Also I'd reel him in a little bit. Again I'm a little confused about how the talk in camp is on defense and limiting goals against and yet he has the ok to play a somewhat risky, aggressive style. He's a good fit offensively, but sometimes he tries to do a little too much.

Agree with every single word here. He's making too many bonehead plays. Have some paid off? Sure. But the dude is a turnover machine so far. Let's also not forget that Shattenkirk himself said he sucked in the first game. His second was worse. Another poster said Coop is trying to get his confidence up, and that is somewhat my suspicion as well. But would you rather have Hedman off his leash or Shattenkirk off his? Cause evidently, you can't have both right now.

The flip side of that is that Hedman could cover up for Shattenkirk's errors. I dont think Shattenkirk could do the same for Hedman.

 

[The Macho King]

17-18 was pretty ugly but other than that he has always been good defensively. But hey maybe he is just really lucky with the analytics

Ugh I feel like you're deliberately trolling with this garbage.

Shattenkirk has never even approached adequate defensively - it's a balancing act with him. Does he create enough offense to offset his brutal own zone play? I don't think so - only guy who I think wins out on that balance in the league is Burns. Shattenkirk needs to play on the third pairing.

 

[ccman68]

Ugh I feel like you're deliberately trolling with this garbage.

Shattenkirk has never even approached adequate defensively - it's a balancing act with him. Does he create enough offense to offset his brutal own zone play? I don't think so - only guy who I think wins out on that balance in the league is Burns. Shattenkirk needs to play on the third pairing.

for a guy who is bad defensively he sure has had a positive impact a lot of times.

The problem with you people is that you don’t show any proof for anything and I’m just supposed to believe in your magical eye test. And I highly doubt you’ve watched Shattenkirk play enough to know anything about his defensive ability.

 

[These Are The Days]

for a guy who is bad defensively he sure has had a positive impact a lot of times.

The problem with you people is that you don’t show any proof for anything and I’m just supposed to believe in your magical eye test. And I highly doubt you’ve watched Shattenkirk play enough to know anything about his defensive ability.

Namestnikov's stats looked like that too and yet I could tell you he was lousy just by watching him and his situational awareness. The NYR fans want to shoot him out of a cannon like Sideshow Bob right now because they're now keenly aware of all his deficiencies.

For as good as his underlying metrics are I wouldn't take him back ever. The eye test pulls a lot of weight in his case

 

[HoseEmDown]

I'm no Shattenkirk fan but I don't mind the over usage this early. He's new to the team and system so give him a ton of minutes in different situations with different partners so see what works best. Hedman only played 1 preseason game I believe and was a bit banged up so he isn't up to speed just yet, McDonagh seems like he isn't yet fully ready. Give Shattenkirk the heavy minutes early when the games don't matter so much then scale him back as the season goes on. I can't see us resigning him after this season so I wouldn't have any issue with us absolutely wearing the tires off him for the year and keeping McDonagh and Hedman fresher going forward. Obviously if he keeps turning it over and playing bad in his own end you have to limit the minutes. But I see this as a year to keep McDonagh and Hedman under 20 a game, overplay Shattenkirk since we won't need him after this season and also hand a ton of minutes to Sergachev to test his abilities. Come playoff time you take the limits off Hedman and McDonagh and use them 25 a night.

 

[JoVel]

If your analytics say Shattenkirk is good defensively then all you've proved is your analytics suck.

 

[The Macho King]

If your analytics say Shattenkirk is good defensively then all you've proved is your analytics suck.

Its dick punchingly stupid.

 

[These Are The Days]

If your analytics say Shattenkirk is good defensively then all you've proved is analytics suck.

Fixed it for you. Analytics for hockey suck ass period. The only argument anyone has for analytics in hockey is if they truly understand the context of the player, his team and his situational deployment. It's a little better as a team stat. But if you're gonna dig THAT deeply then for FFS just save yourself the labor and use an eye test. Save analytics for baseball where there is a place for it. If you cannot properly conduct an eye test for a hockey player then you don't understand what's happening. Shot suppression analytics, turnovers for/against while on the ice, scoring while at power play, shorthanded or even strength will NEVER change the fact that Shattenkirk is a serviceable NHL defenseman who is above average offensively but not very good defensively and from time to time does the STUPIDEST shit you can possibly imagine.

All Shattenkirk's underlying stats is gonna prove is that Hedman is a GOD who can cover for nearly any player's mistakes and deficiencies while allowing them to play above their head.

 

[Todd1a]

I'm no Shattenkirk fan but I don't mind the over usage this early. He's new to the team and system so give him a ton of minutes in different situations with different partners so see what works best. Hedman only played 1 preseason game I believe and was a bit banged up so he isn't up to speed just yet, McDonagh seems like he isn't yet fully ready. Give Shattenkirk the heavy minutes early when the games don't matter so much then scale him back as the season goes on. I can't see us resigning him after this season so I wouldn't have any issue with us absolutely wearing the tires off him for the year and keeping McDonagh and Hedman fresher going forward. Obviously if he keeps turning it over and playing bad in his own end you have to limit the minutes. But I see this as a year to keep McDonagh and Hedman under 20 a game, overplay Shattenkirk since we won't need him after this season and also hand a ton of minutes to Sergachev to test his abilities. Come playoff time you take the limits off Hedman and McDonagh and use them 25 a night.

Shattenkirk will put up 40 to 45 points easy no chance in hell we could afford to resign him anyway he will probably get 3 years 4.5 avv easy from someone else in the summer

 

[Sky04]

Shattenkirk will put up 40 to 45 points easy no chance in hell we could afford to resign him anyway he will probably get 3 years 4.5 avv easy from someone else in the summer

See, this is where I think Rangers are smart. They're paying Shattenkirk to play for another team so they can play against him. Genius.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Shattenkirk will put up 40 to 45 points easy no chance in hell we could afford to resign him anyway he will probably get 3 years 4.5 avv easy from someone else in the summer

I keep seeing this said but don't believe it to be true. In the past 5 seasons we've had three defenders hit 40 points Hedman in every year but 15-16, he missed 23 games and had 38 points so would have been every year. Sergachev in 17-18 with exactly 40. McDonagh in 18-19 with 46. I expect by the end of the year Hedman to hit 40, Sergachev could possibly since he looks good early and hopefully gets the minutes needed, and McDonagh could possibly as he will get the minutes to do it. Shattenkirk could hit it but wouldn't say it's easy since only two guys besides Hedman have done it for us and if he hits 40 while Sergachev and McDonagh do the same it with mean we scored even more than last year which will be extremely hard to do. So if Shattenkirk is going to be 40+ it would mean somebody isn't producing as much and I don't see which of those three it will be.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Yeah I too think Cooper is giving him high level of responsibility to boost his confidence.

 

[AndreRoy]

I'm no Shattenkirk fan but I don't mind the over usage this early. He's new to the team and system so give him a ton of minutes in different situations with different partners so see what works best. Hedman only played 1 preseason game I believe and was a bit banged up so he isn't up to speed just yet, McDonagh seems like he isn't yet fully ready. Give Shattenkirk the heavy minutes early when the games don't matter so much then scale him back as the season goes on. I can't see us resigning him after this season so I wouldn't have any issue with us absolutely wearing the tires off him for the year and keeping McDonagh and Hedman fresher going forward. Obviously if he keeps turning it over and playing bad in his own end you have to limit the minutes. But I see this as a year to keep McDonagh and Hedman under 20 a game, overplay Shattenkirk since we won't need him after this season and also hand a ton of minutes to Sergachev to test his abilities. Come playoff time you take the limits off Hedman and McDonagh and use them 25 a night.

I agree with all of this. If giving Shattenkirk extra time early in the season keeps Hedman fresh for the playoffs and maybe keeps Serg’s numbers down to make him a bit more affordable in the summer then I don’t see any downside to letting the guy pad his resume. It’s a win-win for both the organization and Shatty.

And given how we couldn’t move the puck or generate much in the way of offense against Columbus I certainly don’t mind having another offensive weapon on the back end, even if he does come with some defensive deficiencies.