Player Discussion Kevin Hayes

[NYRKing]

Why do people ignore the fact that Hayes is trying everything in his power not to leave. Guy is screaming hometown discount. Yes, they should have done it last year. It would have been marginally cheaper. They still should. If he sticks and we can always make his salary work, great hes a great veteran presence with Kreider who came up with this team. If they end up having to trade him he's going to be a valuable asset with a great contract.

I think if the team doesn't do the December/January tank GMJG entertains the extension.

Most people are overlooking an extremely important element on this decision - NMC.

I wonder if we can sign him for the 5 or 6 year term and have a window for trading him if needed.

 

[True Blue]

Lock him up for a reasonable contract. Need to have a couple older players in our core, can't be all 22 year olds. Trade Zucc who is declining fast.

Trading Zucc has nothing to do with Hayes staying or going. What do you view as reasonable? $6-$6.5 x 6? That is probably what it would take.

It comes down to two things. 1) Does Gorton view him as being too expensive at that level? Not even getting into the NMC debate. 2) Does Gorton view him to be a part of the new core leadership on the other side of the rebuild? I think that players like Zib & Kreider will be here. If the answer to any of those questions is "no", then Hayes will be traded. There will be a market and a good return for him.

The other Hayes question is whether or not he is playing above his head and he is an excellent third line center or has he legitimately raised his level to be that on a player that can essentially center any 2nd line in the league? That may be the driver of the above questions.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Why do people ignore the fact that Hayes is trying everything in his power not to leave. Guy is screaming hometown discount. Yes, they should have done it last year. It would have been marginally cheaper. They still should. If he sticks and we can always make his salary work, great hes a great veteran presence with Kreider who came up with this team. If they end up having to trade him he's going to be a valuable asset with a great contract.

These aren't the same thing though. Wanting to stay somewhere, and be willing to take a discount to stay aren't the same thing.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Brooks sounds like an old fart in that article. His hot takes are amusing at best.

 

[Lion Hound]

Hayes Value is continuing to grow. When he centered JT he was never thought of as anything more then a 3rd line Center. At the start of the season, he couldn't get out of his own way. He found his game recently. His value is high. Big centers with two way games always have value anyway.

This club has a lot of depth that is currently developing in his position. So much that they are pushing players to the Wings. Hayes is def part of the current core, which is nice to see. But...what is this club's ceiling with him centering one of the top 2 lines? Cause his next contract is going to be that of a 1st line Center. Zibanejad is on a very affordable contract for the return. $5.3 Cap hit. Someone tossed out $6.5 for Hayes? That to me is just another grossly inflated contract that will do more harm for this club long term.

If they locked him up at 5 mil that's another story.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Trading Zucc has nothing to do with Hayes staying or going. What do you view as reasonable? $6-$6.5 x 6? That is probably what it would take.

It comes down to two things. 1) Does Gorton view him as being too expensive at that level? Not even getting into the NMC debate. 2) Does Gorton view him to be a part of the new core leadership on the other side of the rebuild? I think that players like Zib & Kreider will be here. If the answer to any of those questions is "no", then Hayes will be traded. There will be a market and a good return for him.

The other Hayes question is whether or not he is playing above his head and he is an excellent third line center or has he legitimately raised his level to be that on a player that can essentially center any 2nd line in the league? That may be the driver of the above questions.

Zucc has nothing to do with it, but if Gorton is still in rebuild mode then if we are going to trade a vet i'd prefer it be him over Hayes (if he had to choose).

I don't think Hayes is playing over his head either, last year he showed he is a great shut down center, grossly underrated in that aspect, and his offense has been very consistent from year to year, he likely puts all of that together this season and ends up with 50+ points. He's a 2nd line center in this league, has frankly IMO has been for over a year now.

Unfortunately, the 6x6 is probably what it takes, that's the going rate for UFAs to be at that length. Long term it's going to be either him or Zib. Zib is offensively better but Hayes is defensively better.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Hayes Value is continuing to grow. When he centered JT he was never thought of as anything more then a 3rd line Center. At the start of the season, he couldn't get out of his own way. He found his game recently. His value is high. Big centers with two way games always have value anyway.

This club has a lot of depth that is currently developing in his position. So much that they are pushing players to the Wings. Hayes is def part of the current core, which is nice to see. But...what is this club's ceiling with him centering one of the top 2 lines? Cause his next contract is going to be that of a 1st line Center. Zibanejad is on a very affordable contract for the return. $5.3 Cap hit. Someone tossed out $6.5 for Hayes? That to me is just another grossly inflated contract that will do more harm for this club long term.

If they locked him up at 5 mil that's another story.

I cannot like this post enough. Those that do not acknowledge the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Zucc has nothing to do with it, but if Gorton is still in rebuild mode then if we are going to trade a vet i'd prefer it be him over Hayes (if he had to choose).

I don't think Hayes is playing over his head either, last year he showed he is a great shut down center, grossly underrated in that aspect, and his offense has been very consistent from year to year, he likely puts all of that together this season and ends up with 50+ points. He's a 2nd line center in this league, has frankly IMO has been for over a year now.

Unfortunately, the 6x6 is probably what it takes, that's the going rate for UFAs to be at that length. Long term it's going to be either him or Zib. Zib is offensively better but Hayes is defensively better.

If that’s the case, why is Quinn using Zibanejad to match up against the opposing top lines?

 

[True Blue]

Zucc has nothing to do with it, but if Gorton is still in rebuild mode then if we are going to trade a vet i'd prefer it be him over Hayes (if he had to choose).

I think that Gorton is not choosing, but exploring the possibilities of trading both.

I don't think Hayes is playing over his head either, last year he showed he is a great shut down center, grossly underrated in that aspect, and his offense has been very consistent from year to year, he likely puts all of that together this season and ends up with 50+ points. He's a 2nd line center in this league, has frankly IMO has been for over a year now.

If one believes that his level of play has been raised to a legit 2nd line two-way center, then Patrice Bergeron may be the comp when it comes to contract size.

Unfortunately, the 6x6 is probably what it takes, that's the going rate for UFAs to be at that length. Long term it's going to be either him or Zib. Zib is offensively better but Hayes is defensively better.

Probably a bit more than $6 on the nose, but yes. And Gorton needs to determine if he believes that is too much for a player like Hayes.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Again regarding Brooks... the whole point of the letter was to do exactly the opposite of what he’s advocating in that article.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I think that Gorton is not choosing, but exploring the possibilities of trading both.

If one believes that his level of play has been raised to a legit 2nd line two-way center, then Patrice Bergeron may be the comp when it comes to contract size.

Probably a bit more than $6 on the nose, but yes. And Gorton needs to determine if he believes that is too much for a player like Hayes.

Oh he definitely has to explore everything, a good GM must. Obviously Hayes is about as far as away as untouchable so if someone is willing to pay a kings ransom, then you have to make the deal (as much as i'd prefer he wasn't traded).

I wouldn't put Hayes in the Bergeron tier however, he's a legit 1st line center on most teams and had hit over 60 points multiple times in his career while playing elite defensively at the same time.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

If that’s the case, why is Quinn using Zibanejad to match up against the opposing top lines?

The best defense is keeping the puck in the offensive zone.

 

[Ghost of jas]

The best defense is keeping the puck in the offensive zone.

Then why isn’t Quinn doing that?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Then why isn’t Quinn doing that?

He's trying. Easier said than done Zib is better offensively on most nights. Most 1st lines matchup vs each other.

 

[Inferno]

I dont think Hayes is a number 1 center. Im not even sure hes an ideal number 2 center.

I think if Hayes takes the Zibanejad contract he'd be signed today. He wont, he wants to get paid, and hes just worth more, to me, as an asset to trade than to sign long term.
I think if you gave Zibanejad Kreider and Chytil, and gave Hayes Namestnikov and Fasth, their numbers would flip...and then some.

 

[Ghost of jas]

He's trying. Easier said than done Zib is better offensively on most nights. Most 1st lines matchup vs each other.

No, he’s said he’s specifically using against the other top line. If he believed Hayes is the better defensive center, he would have saddled him with Fast and Namestnikov.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

No, he’s said he’s specifically using against the other top line. If he believed Hayes is the better defensive center, he would have saddled him with Fast and Namestnikov.

Like I said, the best defense is offense, putting Fast out there isnt going to do anything offensively. 1st line matches up because Quinn wants our 1st line to get the most ice time, same as what the other team is doing.

Fast/Hayes lines should be out to defend a lead late in the 3rd, which they do normally.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I dont think Hayes is a number 1 center. Im not even sure hes an ideal number 2 center.

I think if Hayes takes the Zibanejad contract he'd be signed today. He wont, he wants to get paid, and hes just worth more, to me, as an asset to trade than to sign long term.
I think if you gave Zibanejad Kreider and Chytil, and gave Hayes Namestnikov and Fasth, their numbers would flip...and then some.

I think you could say the same thing by swapping Hayes and Howden.

I remain steadfast in my belief that signing Hayes to anything near what he wants is foolish. And what he likely wants is not a hometown discount.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There is a legitimate argument to be made regarding keeping Hayes.

I still say that they should trade him unless they can get him at their price. It sucks as hes finally come into his own and has easily been our most consistent forward since the start of the 2017-18 season but it is what it is.

If they for whatever reason trade Hayes while extending Zucc I'm gonna be so done with this team.

 

[aufheben]

Similar situation to Stepan and McDonagh.

The Rangers seem unwilling to commit big dollars and big term to pseudo-elite players.

You're either a franchise player, or you're a compliment. We don't seem to be bothering with the in between anymore.

Will be interesting to see what they do with Kreider who is very much in between.

They kept Zibanejad but Zibanejad needs to fire his agent.

”In between” for the Rangers has really players sandwiched between 1F/2F. I think Kreider is beyond that at this point, and is a legit 1LW.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Hayes Value is continuing to grow. When he centered JT he was never thought of as anything more then a 3rd line Center. At the start of the season, he couldn't get out of his own way. He found his game recently. His value is high. Big centers with two way games always have value anyway.

This club has a lot of depth that is currently developing in his position. So much that they are pushing players to the Wings. Hayes is def part of the current core, which is nice to see. But...what is this club's ceiling with him centering one of the top 2 lines? Cause his next contract is going to be that of a 1st line Center. Zibanejad is on a very affordable contract for the return. $5.3 Cap hit. Someone tossed out $6.5 for Hayes? That to me is just another grossly inflated contract that will do more harm for this club long term.

If they locked him up at 5 mil that's another story.

6.5 would be only 8% of the current 80 Million Salary Cap. That doesn't seem out of line for Kevin Hayes.

I agree with your other point though. On a championship team, Kevin Hayes is closer to your 2nd or 3rd best center than he is your best center or forward. A very nice player but not really that cornerstone or aircraft carrier player. We desparately need cornerstones and aircraft carriers.

Tough choices ahead with him.

 

[Inferno]

honestly i feel bad for Zibanejad here, he's getting tough matchups with basically nobody to play with. Namestnikov could use another benching, I feel like his play has slipped a ton, and Fasth is a 4th liner on most teams. I don't see why he's a first liner for us.

 

[Ghost of jas]

6.5 would be only 8% of the current 80 Million Salary Cap. That doesn't seem out of line for Kevin Hayes.

I agree with your other point though. On a championship team, Kevin Hayes is closer to your 2nd or 3rd best center than he is your best center or forward. A very nice player but not really that cornerstone or aircraft carrier player.

Tough choices ahead with him.

It’s only tough if you’re okay making the same mistakes that were made in the last run.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It’s only tough if you’re okay making the same mistakes that were made in the last run.

I think you're advocating for trading him sooner rather than later? And I'd have to agree with you even though it would hurt.

 

[True Blue]

I dont think Hayes is a number 1 center. Im not even sure hes an ideal number 2 center.

That's the million dollar question. A #1, he is not. But if he has become a #2, then the discussion changes. Like I said, there are really only two factors and both are up to Gorton. Does he view him as part of the leaderhship core on the other side of the rebuild and does he believe he is worth his asking price? If the answer to either is no, then Hayes ends up being traded.