Sportsnet: Kessel confident of Leafs avoiding tailspin

[Disgruntled Observer*]

is what I said



Bolland didn't play enough

McClement for all the love he got couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper-bag and has ZERO imagination when it comes to offense which when Bozak and Bolland were both out he needed to step up and he did not. He really isn't exactly an NHL elite level skater either, and his 4th line replacement Jerrod Smithson was a little less of the same package

Holland was too green last year to be effective every shift, but his replacement the Peter Holland who got major Marlie playoff minutes in all situations will be a much more assertive, more comfortable and confident player

Mason Raymond had to be told who played net that night as he was never in his own end long enough to figure it out, but yeah he popped some goals

Santorelli has always been known as a very good playmaker and under Torterella become a capable 2 way guy and was solid on Kesler's RW, I'm sure with his wheels and puck handling abilities he and Kadri will get along just fine.

Booth has shown a very above average skill set and until Richards blind sided him a few years back was on the cusp of becoming a bona fide star in the league, he has since been enigmatic somewhat in Vancouver, but looked like the real deal in his last 20 or so games when he played significant minutes

Danny Winnick was a key guy for a pretty good Ducks team playing PP #1 and doing a solid job as a 3rd line winger, he easily replaces McClement.

Leo Komarov and Petri Kontiola were both excellent as 2/3rds of the 2nd line of the Bronze medal Finnish Olympic team, it's #1 PK duo, playing against the best players in the world, they also both led their respective KHL teams in scoring. NHL unproven? Yep for sure, but nice upgrade over Smithson/Carter/McLaren/Orr(54 games dressed???) none of whom are very capable AHL scorers, let alone the NHL

Well, why did the other GM's in the league think the players we lost were worth SO MUCH more money than the players we signed?
Are all those GM's that signed those players just stupid, and our GM is the only smart one?
Is that REALLY what some fans around here are trying to convince themselves?

 

[Stats01]

Kessel said he was confident their team is now set up to avoid collapses now. Was he supposed to say something else?

And he's right. With the changes we made, and the changes we are making to how we play, and the fact that we are balancing ice time taking away some of the load from guys like Kessel and Phaneuf, I think we will be a lot less prone

The D should be a lot better. - Gunnarsson, Ranger +Robidas, Polak. That's a huge upgrade. Gunnar has a big time chronic issue and who knows when he'll be back with St.Louis, last year he just wasn't very good to be honest, he's reached his peak, Ranger is self explanatory. Subtract them and add in two veterans and the D-core should improve before any new systems are even implemented. Speaking of systems whatever Carlyle had going on last year....take that and just throw it in the trash. New system with new veteran players on the D-core along with stellar play from Bernier we should be a ton better defensively than last season.

 

[cookie]

Well, why did the other GM's in the league think the players we lost were worth SO MUCH more money than the players we signed?
Are all those GM's that signed those players just stupid, and our GM is the only smart one?
Is that REALLY what some fans around here are trying to convince themselves?

NHL GMs aren't exactly the best talent evaluators. There was this one that traded 2 firsts that turned out to be a second overall and ninth overall draft pick.

 

[cookie]

The D should be a lot better. - Gunnarsson, Ranger +Robidas, Polak. That's a huge upgrade. Gunnar has a big time chronic issue and who knows when he'll be back with St.Louis, last year he just wasn't very good to be honest, he's reached his peak, Ranger is self explanatory. Subtract them and add in two veterans and the D-core should improve before any new systems are even implemented. Speaking of systems whatever Carlyle had going on last year....take that and just throw it in the trash. New system with new veteran players on the D-core along with stellar play from Bernier we should be a ton better defensively than last season.

To play devils' advocate:

Who's to say that Polak and Robidas will play at their current levels? They're relatively older players. What if none of them develop any chemistry with our young-guns, with Franson, with Dion?

Only during the season will we be able to properly evaluate these signings.

 

[cookie]

Many of us feared the collapse. I know lots within the analytics community around November / December kept on continuously saying that what the Leafs were doing was completely unsustainable.

It's worth noting that Carlyle and his "sleepless nights" and "nervous time in the coach's office", knew the same thing as well.

Which makes it even more mind boggling that they weren't able to correct it.

It wasn't a shock that the season unraveled. It WAS a shock at just how suddenly, and terribly, it did.

When we were winning games, Carlyle said that the team would easily dismiss his critiques. If we had the collapse earlier in the season, we might have finished differently.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

NHL GMs aren't exactly the best talent evaluators. There was this one that traded 2 firsts that turned out to be a second overall and ninth overall draft pick.

So OUR gm (the guy that gave out the worst contract in all of nhl world history just last season) is the smart one, and ALL the other GM's are stupid.

I mean, that's a pretty ridiculous argument to make.
I think a much simpler and logical argument is that we were outbid on some of our superior players, and replaced them with cheaper less talented alternatives. A decision that I'm supportive of because I still think we need a legitimate rebuild. But to say the less talented cheaper players who score less points and aren't as good defensively make us BETTER as a team is utterly outrageous.

 

[Stats01]

Of course not. However, I think both the players and the fans need to acknowledge that last year was not a case of:

"We had a legitimately good team, just had a little bad stretch, need to fix that one little thing and we're good!"

The team doesn't need to learn how to not collapse, the team needs to play better puck possession hockey. This means both being able to maintain possession when they have the puck, and even more important for the Leafs, get the puck back quickly when they lose possession, instead of running around their own zone for ages without the puck. The collapse was not some weird, bad luck outlier, it was a true indication of the quality of the team.

Something along the lines of this would make me feel more confident that the players are in touch with reality:

"Our team had serious issues last year, we played without the puck in our own end too often. These issues don't fix themselves, we have to fix them. We're going to hustle harder, focus on winning puck battles all over the ice, and improve our cycle play. We do this, and we can be a good playoff team."

Part of the problem last year was the system. It's tough to get the puck back when the coach preaches you to sit back and put up a wall in front of Bernier. The Leafs need to do a lot better being aggressive at the point of entry into the defensive zone. How many times last year did we just let the other team skate into our own end, we skate back and put up a wall and skate around going after the puck and the other team starts to cycle. It was so stupid, it not only gives the other team momentum, it tires out our entire team then we're too tired to do anything and we just dump the puck in change and then we do it all over again. It was the worst system I've seen this team play in a long time. You can't just let teams skate in your own end and expect to have much puck possession.

 

[Stats01]

To play devils' advocate:

Who's to say that Polak and Robidas will play at their current levels? They're relatively older players. What if none of them develop any chemistry with our young-guns, with Franson, with Dion?

Only during the season will we be able to properly evaluate these signings.

I whole-heartedly believe that Polak/Robidas are plain and simple better players than Ranger and Gunnarsson. Can't play any worse than Ranger did at times and Gunnarsson was injured for pretty much the whole year. You balance out the minutes with our D-pairings and we should be a lot better than we were. There's a reason why Ranger is now in Europe...he couldn't get a job in the NHL.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

So OUR gm (the guy that gave out the worst contract in all of nhl world history just last season) is the smart one, and ALL the other GM's are stupid.

I mean, that's a pretty ridiculous argument to make.
I think a much simpler and logical argument is that we were outbid on some of our superior players, and replaced them with cheaper less talented alternatives. A decision that I'm supportive of because I still think we need a legitimate rebuild. But to say the less talented cheaper players who score less points and aren't as good defensively make us BETTER as a team is utterly outrageous.

DO...lets not disparage. I think we have a manager who realizes the importance of drafting high and drafting often (Shanahan). What you are seeing is a tank mode manager giving his "star players" one last chance. Plugs out....Plugs in but he really hasn't changed anything.

I'm with you however. Its very very difficult for me to see an improvement here....I see the opposite. A bunch of guys on short 1 year contracts playing for their careers. None of them are sought after which is why they signed for the term and money that they did.

Afterall why would anyone sign for 1M and 1 year if someone else were willing to pay them more and for longer? They wouldn't.

This is a tank mode team. Some of those new players will play HARD because they need new contracts next year...but the skill level is NOT better than the skill level that left. No chance. At best some are maybe on paar but overall I'd agree..the guys who left this team are more skilled than the guys they've signed.

This is Nonis/Carlyle's last hurrah. Along with some core players. This is the beginning of the tear down that we (you and I) wanted to see when a big fat dumb and loud American GM came to town and said he was smarter than everyone else and started trading #1 draft picks from a bottom dweller.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Kessel is not the problem on this team.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

The fans can blame Carlyle and Colton Orr for last season's collapse until the cows come home but the last time I checked Carlyle wasn't out on the ice and neither was Orr for the most part.

 

[X66]

The fans can blame Carlyle and Colton Orr for last season's collapse until the cows come home but the last time I checked Carlyle wasn't out on the ice and neither was Orr for the most part.

Carlyle and Farrish worked on the worst puck possession stats over the last half decade, with TWO different teams, it's not exclusive to the Leafs.

Were you a huge fan of Kostka playing 22 minutes a night a season ago?
Were you a fan of playing Orr and Mclaren at the same time?

 

[Faltorvo]

Reimer was obviously injured?

One could argue that Reims had a broken heart after being made the backup.

But all serious, I think he was mentally damaged last season, his sense of entitlement got the better of him and he was not able to get into the right frame of mind one needs to be an effective backup.

Can he this season? errr I ain't holding my breath.

 

[Faltorvo]

I just wish people would read this and then think Phanuef and the entire team as a matter of fact... Bernier wasn't the only one who was over worked...The way this team was structured play is what netted these results. They played the same way last year in the short season.

I understand your frustration just about every Leaf fan has it. Where I disagree is in the point of view that there's not a good team within these players as a group. From what I've seen these past 2 years not just this season is by far the worst coaching job in my 35 + years of watching the Leafs. That game that I bold in your post is Carlyle hockey. He was fired for that from Anaheim... Changes needed to be made but I can tell you this much you can bring freaking Team Canada to be the Leafs and even they would not fair much better with this game plan and micromanaged bench Carlyle deploys.

I'm not going to respond to this but in a way Leaf fans deserve this for siding with the media, especially Don Cherry when it came to Ron Wilson. The fans and the media a like fired Ron Wilson when he got just about as zero goaltending as anybody could get... You get what you ask for a defense 1st coach well how does playing defense for 70% of the TOI sound? You get what you ask for sometimes.

I don't agree with you completely and my 42 years trumps your newby 35, so step aside

I think this is the classic case of having many quality ingredients sitting on the table, but to try and combine them to make a quality meal is not possible, no matter how you try to cook it, bake, boil,broil,bbq,deep fry, it just won't work.

In todays NHL you need to have beef stew, something that is hearty ,thick and sits heavy once consumed.

Chicken soup is not the way to go.

 

[Faltorvo]

So OUR gm (the guy that gave out the worst contract in all of nhl world history just last season) is the smart one, and ALL the other GM's are stupid.

I mean, that's a pretty ridiculous argument to make.
I think a much simpler and logical argument is that we were outbid on some of our superior players, and replaced them with cheaper less talented alternatives. A decision that I'm supportive of because I still think we need a legitimate rebuild. But to say the less talented cheaper players who score less points and aren't as good defensively make us BETTER as a team is utterly outrageous.

I could not agree with this more.

 

[Faltorvo]

DO...lets not disparage. I think we have a manager who realizes the importance of drafting high and drafting often (Shanahan). What you are seeing is a tank mode manager giving his "star players" one last chance. Plugs out....Plugs in but he really hasn't changed anything.

I'm with you however. Its very very difficult for me to see an improvement here....I see the opposite. A bunch of guys on short 1 year contracts playing for their careers. None of them are sought after which is why they signed for the term and money that they did.

Afterall why would anyone sign for 1M and 1 year if someone else were willing to pay them more and for longer? They wouldn't.

This is a tank mode team. Some of those new players will play HARD because they need new contracts next year...but the skill level is NOT better than the skill level that left. No chance. At best some are maybe on paar but overall I'd agree..the guys who left this team are more skilled than the guys they've signed.

This is Nonis/Carlyle's last hurrah. Along with some core players. This is the beginning of the tear down that we (you and I) wanted to see when a big fat dumb and loud American GM came to town and said he was smarter than everyone else and started trading #1 draft picks from a bottom dweller.

These sentiments are bang on.

This team is just a Bernier coming back down to earth .915 save percentage away from drafting top 5.

That's it, that's all.

Now ,take that high probability chance, add in the high chance that our PP drops some and the high chance that we don't walk away with as many points as we did from OT/shootouts and you will have one confused and upset fan base.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Hes saying exactly what every athlete on the planet would say.

Yep, any athlete or person for that matter who has pride in what they do.

Move along folks. Nothing to see here.

The media needs a little fuel for the fire as things are a little slow now.

And besides, we'll see soon enough (in less than a year) if enough improvements have really been made.

 

[therealkoho]

Well, why did the other GM's in the league think the players we lost were worth SO MUCH more money than the players we signed?
Are all those GM's that signed those players just stupid, and our GM is the only smart one?
Is that REALLY what some fans around here are trying to convince themselves?

do you really think that Nonis should have thrown 25m at Bolland

yeah I know Tallon did it, but hey what a winner he is right SC I know but how does one get the can tied to their ass when riding the wave?......since then nothing with more nothing on the horizon

or

4.187 per year at Kulemin

oops Garth Snow, the long tradition of tremendous hockey decisions, do I need to say more?

or

3.15m per at Raymond

only the most hated man in the hockey entertainment business, our not so beloved ex, the man whom LeafLanders still collectively throw up in their loud and drooling mouthes as one at the mere mention of 1+1+2 or 5 year plan or signed Grabbo for what?, or...millions of reason to hate/defame and detest......but now a brilliant signer of MayRay

or

resign Jay McClement who sucked hind tit last year

Ronnie Franchise, 1st timer so we'll see

I can imagine if Dave did any of these things, it would give the greek chorus reason to howl for the next 10 years or more

good argument though it kept me amused for about 30 seconds

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

do you really think that Nonis should have thrown 25m at Bolland

yeah I know Tallon did it, but hey what a winner he is right

or

4.187 per year at Kulemin

oops Garth Snow, the long tradition of tremendous hockey decisions, do I need to say more?

or

3.15m per at Raymond

only the most hated man in the hockey entertainment business the ex who LeafLanders still throw up in their loud and drooling mouthes at the mere mention of 1+1+2 or 5 year plan

or

resign Jay McClement who sucked hind tit last year

Ronnie Franchise, 1st timer so we'll see

I can imagine if Dave did any of these things it would give the greek chorus reason to howl for the next 10 years or more

good argument though it kept me amused for about 30 seconds

What a strange post.

You seem to think cap management and player skill are the same thing. Very strange indeed.

Did Nonis do the right thing in not offering Bolland, Kulemin, etc those contracts? Absolutely. We have enough wasted cap space, and the teams signing them are largely not going to go anywhere NEAR the cap ceiling, so they have room to spare.

Are the players we replaced them with better hockey players? Absolutely NOT!!!! They score FAR less points, get paid FAR less money, and probably aren't even as good defensively.

Being that I support a rebuild, I think Nonis did THE RIGHT THING even though the players we signed are A DOWNGRADE!!! We shouldn't give out long term crazy contracts to 3rd line players. But to try and pretend that our cheaper, less talented, defensively worse replacements who score less points will IMPROVE our team is an insane argument.

 

[Faltorvo]

DO...lets not disparage. I think we have a manager who realizes the importance of drafting high and drafting often (Shanahan). What you are seeing is a tank mode manager giving his "star players" one last chance. Plugs out....Plugs in but he really hasn't changed anything.

I'm with you however. Its very very difficult for me to see an improvement here....I see the opposite. A bunch of guys on short 1 year contracts playing for their careers. None of them are sought after which is why they signed for the term and money that they did.

Afterall why would anyone sign for 1M and 1 year if someone else were willing to pay them more and for longer? They wouldn't.

This is a tank mode team. Some of those new players will play HARD because they need new contracts next year...but the skill level is NOT better than the skill level that left. No chance. At best some are maybe on paar but overall I'd agree..the guys who left this team are more skilled than the guys they've signed.

This is Nonis/Carlyle's last hurrah. Along with some core players. This is the beginning of the tear down that we (you and I) wanted to see when a big fat dumb and loud American GM came to town and said he was smarter than everyone else and started trading #1 draft picks from a bottom dweller.

Dave no no and RC are here as BS s safety layer and scape goats for this up coming tankard season.

Why would BS bring in "his guys" into the top key roles for a disaster sht shw season?

What I do not agree with tho is this"giving his star players one last shot" this core has shown two seasons in a row when 82 games are played of what they are really worth and that's a 5th last and 8th last draft slot.

They don't have the conditioning, will nor mental inner fortitude to prove out over the grind of 82 games, let alone LOLLLLZZZZZZ gawd forbid the 25 game war/marathon that comes after it.

 

[Faltorvo]

What a strange post.

You seem to think cap management and player skill are the same thing. Very strange indeed.

Did Nonis do the right thing in not offering Bolland, Kulemin, etc those contracts? Absolutely. We have enough wasted cap space, and the teams signing them are largely not going to go anywhere NEAR the cap ceiling, so they have room to spare.

Are the players we replaced them with better hockey players? Absolutely NOT!!!! They score FAR less points, get paid FAR less money, and probably aren't even as good defensively.

Being that I support a rebuild, I think Nonis did THE RIGHT THING even though the players we signed are A DOWNGRADE!!! We shouldn't give out long term crazy contracts to 3rd line players. But to try and pretend that our cheaper, less talented, defensively worse replacements who score less points will IMPROVE our team is an insane argument.

Question for you DO,

DN "did the right thing or was forced into it?" given that we went into this off season in cap craptastic shape?

I'm not convinced he could have hurt himself if he tried, save room for say 1 craptastic contract, like a Bolland.

 

[therealkoho]

So OUR gm (the guy that gave out the worst contract in all of nhl world history just last season) is the smart one, and ALL the other GM's are stupid.

I mean, that's a pretty ridiculous argument to make.
I think a much simpler and logical argument is that we were outbid on some of our superior players, and replaced them with cheaper less talented alternatives. A decision that I'm supportive of because I still think we need a legitimate rebuild. But to say the less talented cheaper players who score less points and aren't as good defensively make us BETTER as a team is utterly outrageous.

Nik .29 ppg, Booth .29 ppg

MayRay .55 ppg Santorelli .57 ppg

Jay .12 ppg Winnick .39 ppg

Gunns 17 points Robidas and Polak combined 23 points....a wash one would think

still looks like the new kids will put up more points

 

[therealkoho]

What a strange post.

You seem to think cap management and player skill are the same thing. Very strange indeed.

Did Nonis do the right thing in not offering Bolland, Kulemin, etc those contracts? Absolutely. We have enough wasted cap space, and the teams signing them are largely not going to go anywhere NEAR the cap ceiling, so they have room to spare.

Are the players we replaced them with better hockey players? Absolutely NOT!!!! They score FAR less points, get paid FAR less money, and probably aren't even as good defensively.

Being that I support a rebuild, I think Nonis did THE RIGHT THING even though the players we signed are A DOWNGRADE!!! We shouldn't give out long term crazy contracts to 3rd line players. But to try and pretend that our cheaper, less talented, defensively worse replacements who score less points will IMPROVE our team is an insane argument.

you're posit alluded to the GM's giving them more money then Dave was willing to

Are all those GM's that signed those players just stupid, and our GM is the only smart one?

I don't consider 5m+ for Bolland to be very smart, let alone cap friendly or whatever you'd like to call it

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Question for you DO,

DN "did the right thing or was forced into it?" given that we went into this off season in cap craptastic shape?

I'm not convinced he could have hurt himself if he tried, save room for say 1 craptastic contract, like a Bolland.

When it comes to this specific offseason alone... judging JUST what has happened the past 3 months... I think Nonis has done a decent job.

But you're right... judging Nonis as the leafs gm AS A WHOLE, he's done a terrible job. I would MUCH rather have Bolland and his "bad" contract than Clarkson with his worse contract in all nhl world history.

Nonis this summer? B+
Nonis so far as leafs GM? F The Clarkson contract is so DRAMATICALLY terrible alone that Nonis will always get an F unless by some miracle the leafs actually win the cup with him as our GM.

 

[Faltorvo]

Nik .29 ppg, Booth .29 ppg

MayRay .55 ppg Santorelli .57 ppg

Jay .12 ppg Winnick .39 ppg

Gunns 17 points Robidas and Polak combined 23 points....a wash one would think

still looks like the new kids will put up more points

what about Bollands .42 ppg or the 28.5 goals he was on pace for?