Sportsnet: Kessel and Leafs won't negotiate in-season

[Erndog]

I could only imagine how you would have reacted back in 2009 if Burke signed a "speedy 35ish goal scorer who brings little else" to a 13 year deal before he played a game with the Leafs.

 

[Durrr]

Off the top of my head, Perry, Getzlaf, Weber, Giroux, Malkin, Crosby, all had 5 years or less on their 2nd contracts and their teams just recently re-upped them.

Stamkos will be 26 when he is a UFA (same as Kessel!).... Tavares will be 27! Kane and Toews are both 2 years away from unrestricted free agency when they will be 27.

It is not uncommon and clearly practised by a number of GM's across the entire league to have signed their stars for ~5 or so years coming out of their ELC's.

Because all there agents know these guys are stars and are going to deserve a lot more money in UFA after the cap has continuously gone up for 5 years.

 

[The CyNick]

you set a date to re-sign him. if he doesn't agree to a deal by then, you ship him out

personally, I just think he will stay here because we will likely give him more money than any other team would.

 

[diceman934]

You mean like the Mike Richards / Jeff Carter deals that have them locked up to cap friendly $5.25 - $5.75 mil for the next 8 more years.

Surely you have heard Burke comment on his own short-term deal beliefs of not giving out contracts > 5-6 years?

Leafs find themselves in this cap situation and vulnerability of risking loss of a top player as well as struggling with the salary cap because of this.

So while a top contender like LA now gets the benefit of long term security of players at cap friendly prices, Nonis is now forced into a corner of negotiating with a player that wants a big raise paying him top dollar, and\or threatening to test free agency. So not only will a $7-8 mil contract hurt the Leafs competitiveness if signed in comparison to other contenders, it could also result in a major player loss also. Pick your poison!

The fact that both Dion and Kessel have their contracts expiring next year puts us in a position of choosing to sign them both a trading away players that Carlyle values or signing just one of them and trading the other for assets and keeping players that Carlyle values.

Unless Kessel does not want to resign here ....he will be signed and at a contract starting with the number 8 as his cap hit. Dion would then be shopped as keeping both of them would make us less competitive in the long run as we will have to purge salary to keep him.

The return for Dion would need to include a good D man who is physical and can be used in a shut down role.....

 

[Durrr]

The fact that both Dion and Kessel have their contracts expiring next year puts us in a position of choosing to sign them both a trading away players that Carlyle values or signing just one of them and trading the other for assets and keeping players that Carlyle values.

Unless Kessel does not want to resign here ....he will be signed and at a contract starting with the number 8 as his cap hit. Dion would then be shopped as keeping both of them would make us less competitive in the long run as we will have to purge salary to keep him.

The return for Dion would need to include a good D man who is physical and can be used in a shut down role.....

Unless Gardiner can outplay Dion this season by a wide margin he isn't going anywhere unless it's his choice because the leafs cannot afford to not have him in the #1 spot.

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

While I don't think this is too uncommon, I am a little uneasy given Nonis' apparent troubles with getting (good) contracts done.

see is that true though? how often is it that a team's best player hasn't re-signed by the end of the season where they're becoming a free agent?

usually it seems the contracts happen the summer before free agency (malkin, crosby, bergeron) or at least sometime during the season (getzlaf, perry).

i'm being honest that the fact kessel won't negotiate now or during the season is a VERY bad sign for us and people should be filled with concern.

 

[Mess]

I could only imagine how you would have reacted back in 2009 if Burke signed a "speedy 35ish goal scorer who brings little else" to a 13 year deal before he played a game with the Leafs.

Much better than re-signing a "speedy 35ish goal scorer who brings little else" to a $8 mil a year deal.

You're biggest fear is now that Nonis is going to be forced to trade Kessel as a pending UFA from a position of weakness as the return for a rental player will never be as good as the original cost. A position he finds himself in thanks to past management. We have all seen Mike Richards and Jeff Carter traded for good returns because they were locked up as assets. Leafs now have an expiring asset in the drivers seat with contract demands.

What is Nonis Best option, re-sign Kessel to Phil's terms to one of the highest NHL cap hits, trade him a as rental player or let him walk for free?

 

[Joey Hoser]

people should be filled with concern.

Why? There's nothing I can do about it.

 

[Joey Hoser]

[/I]You're biggest fear is now that Nonis is going to be forced to trade Kessel as a pending UFA from a position of weakness

Trading Kessel from a position of weakness worked fine for Boston.

as the return for a rental player will never be as good as the original cost

Kessel is the type of player who would most likely be traded having already discussed resigning with the team he's moving to, exactly like what happened when we traded for him.

 

[Deebo]

Much better than re-signing a "speedy 35ish goal scorer who brings little else" to a $8 mil a year deal.

You're biggest fear is now that Nonis is going to be forced to trade Kessel as a pending UFA from a position of weakness as the return for a rental player will never be as good as the original cost. A position he finds himself in thanks to past management. We have all seen Mike Richards and Jeff Carter traded for good returns because they were locked up as assets. Leafs now have an expiring asset in the drivers seat with contract demands.

What is Nonis Best option, re-sign Kessel to Phil's terms to one of the highest NHL cap hits, trade him a as rental player or let him walk for free?

If you aren't going to acknowledge any counter points and continuously restate the same information, then this a useless discussion.

 

[TMLegend]

IF I had to choose between re-signing Kessel or Phaneuf, I'd choose Phaneuf.

Yes, I understand Phaneuf isn't perfect and I know he has a tendency to be erratic defensively, but in no way can we lose our number #1 D. Our defense core will be the worst in the league if we lost Dion.

 

[bobbyflex]

Trading Kessel from a position of weakness worked fine for Boston.



Kessel is the type of player who would most likely be traded having already discussed resigning with the team he's moving to, exactly like what happened when we traded for him.

5200 posts and you don't know the difference between an RFA and UFA.

 

[Mess]

Trading Kessel from a position of weakness worked fine for Boston.

Kessel is the type of player who would most likely be traded having already discussed resigning with the team he's moving to, exactly like what happened when we traded for him.

Kessel was a 21 year old RFA the last time around when he forced himself off of his team. The team that acquired him would have owned his rights up until free agency status. (at least 5 years).

Today the team that acquires him is only guaranteed to have him for this current season. If Kessel isn't willing to negotiate with his current team mid season, what makes you think he will do it with his new one?

 

[diceman934]

IF I had to choose between re-signing Kessel or Phaneuf, I'd choose Phaneuf.

Yes, I understand Phaneuf isn't perfect and I know he has a tendency to be erratic defensively, but in no way can we lose our number #1 D. Our defense core will be the worst in the league if we lost Dion.

I obviously disagree and for good reason. We have players in place who can replace Dion's offense....so that is not an issue. We would require in return an effective defensive D man who hits and blocks shots etc and can play a role on the PK.....our PP would not loose anything. Edmonton has been mentioned as a possible partner I would say Smid plus as a return would work.

We have no one available that can produce the offense that would be lost if we traded Kessel.

 

[diceman934]

Trading Kessel from a position of weakness worked fine for Boston.



Kessel is the type of player who would most likely be traded having already discussed resigning with the team he's moving to, exactly like what happened when we traded for him.

Boston was not in a position of weakness when they traded him.....but you know that.

I do agree that if we traded him at the trade deadline his new team would have likely worked out the details of a new contract before making the deal.

 

[TMLegend]

I obviously disagree and for good reason. We have players in place who can replace Dion's offense....so that is not an issue. We would require in return an effective defensive D man who hits and blocks shots etc and can play a role on the PK.....our PP would not loose anything. Edmonton has been mentioned as a possible partner I would say Smid plus as a return would work.

We have no one available that can produce the offense that would be lost if we traded Kessel.

In case you haven't realised, We have problems preventing goals, not scoring them. I don't feel signing Phil is an absolute necessity due to the aforementioned point.. Why don't we just trade Phil for a defensive D man(+ other pieces) and make a defensive core one of the better ones in the league and rely on depth scoring instead of having a large chunk of capspace tied into our top 6 wingers.

 

[Mess]

Boston was not in a position of weakness when they traded him.....but you know that.

I do agree that if we traded him at the trade deadline his new team would have likely worked out the details of a new contract before making the deal.

In fact Boston would have received a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks as an offer sheet compensation and was able to turn that 3rd round pick into another top 10 overall 1st rounder because they were not in a position of weakness.

Trading Kessel as a rental player now wouldn't have close to that return.

Kessel in the OP thread post stated "he is not going to negotiate a new deal mid season" so why would he do that with his new team?. That means he would respect his new team more than his present one, by changing his position to accommodate his new team.

 

[L Corncrick]

Nonis locked up Flow-zak which is a positive when it comes to resigning his little buddy Kessel.

 

[pspot]

Nonis locked up Flow-zak which is a positive when it comes to resigning his little buddy Kessel.

luckily didn't give him a ntc

 

[therealkoho]

Why do they quote some of the things Kessel said but not all of them?

you should read the Sun's take on it, hilarious spin

 

[diceman934]

luckily didn't give him a ntc

Yes he has a NTC....look at cap geek to confirm....

 

[therealkoho]

Off the top of my head, Perry, Getzlaf, Weber, Giroux, Malkin, Crosby, all had 5 years or less on their 2nd contracts and their teams just recently re-upped them.

Stamkos will be 26 when he is a UFA (same as Kessel!).... Tavares will be 27! Kane and Toews are both 2 years away from unrestricted free agency when they will be 27.

It is not uncommon and clearly practised by a number of GM's across the entire league to have signed their stars for ~5 or so years coming out of their ELC's.

stop bringing logic and fact into this it severely hampers the sky is falling mode

Kessel was a 21 year old RFA the last time around when he forced himself off of his team. The team that acquired him would have owned his rights up until free agency status. (at least 5 years).

Today the team that acquires him is only guaranteed to have him for this current season. If Kessel isn't willing to negotiate with his current team mid season, what makes you think he will do it with his new one?

and it also stands to reason that if you as an NHL GM were making a deal to obtain The Thrill(whom btw is an elite player in this league if you hadn't noticed) you wouldn't do so from a position of weakness. It would stand to reason that if you were dealing for Phil you would already have a deal hammered out for a long term extension. Which in turn would set the Buds up for a very lucrative return.

2 first's and a second is the starting point if Nonis were only demanding picks in return

 

[pspot]

Yes he has a NTC....look at cap geek to confirm....

****ing kidding me, that modified better be like 2 teams

 

[diceman934]

In case you haven't realised, We have problems preventing goals, not scoring them. I don't feel signing Phil is an absolute necessity due to the aforementioned point.. Why don't we just trade Phil for a defensive D man(+ other pieces) and make a defensive core one of the better ones in the league and rely on depth scoring instead of having a large chunk of capspace tied into our top 6 wingers.

Do you even read before posting a reply to a post.

I stated that we require a defensive shut down type D man in a trade if we trade Dion as part of the return.

Dion is replaceable with players we have and a return of a defensive D man.....

Kessel is not replaceable as we have no one who can fill his role..the return we would get would not address the lost offense.

 

[blue82]

worrying over a "process" ..whats the point? this is not a result, nor does it influence the result in anyway.. so yeah..who cares