Kessel and Crosby

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Its enough of an argument. A guy calling himself Crosbyfan saying its not even close. What a shocker. Meanwhile, 13 out of 30 NHL GM's(you know, guys who actually know something other than media hype) say otherwise. I think I'll take the opinion of NHL GM's over some kid on the internet who bases his opinion on hype(and perhaps nationality)

Maguire said "probably". He took it out of nowhere.

 

[Mothra]

Maguire said "probably". He took it out of nowhere.

actually....."probably" wasnt part of what McGuire was quoted on.....

'If both were eligible this season, McGuire said the split would probably be "17 general managers who favored Crosby and 13 who favored Kessel." '

 

[MN_Gopher]

As far as hype goes. I heard of Crosby when Parise was being recruited by NoDak and Minny. How many on these boards heard of Wheeler, Brian Lee, Skille when they were 15? I bet not alot outside of Minnesota and WI and maybe some that follow the u18 program and their hopefulls. And those guys were top 10 picks.

And i could come up with reasons why Kessel is better than Crosby. Pesonally to build a team around i'd want Crosby though.

 

[Rico Fatastic]

Personally, I have a feeling that every NHL GM would take Crosby over Kessel. And it's not necessarily because Crosby is better than Kessel, but rather because Crosby was hyped so much. Just look at what drafting this kid has done for Penguins' ticket sales. It's astounding, really. Picking anyone other than Crosby would have been a PR nightmare. It's the same as last draft when some scouts (granted, a minority of them) were saying that Malkin was as good as Ovechkin. There was still no way the Caps took Malkin because it would have been bad PR. 90% of American hockey fans (I don't know about Canadians) don't follow pre-draft prospects, so they only know the brief blurbs they see on ESPN (which is to say practically nothing -- unless the guy's name is Sidney Crosby) and the local news media (they might hear a little if the team has a high draft pick). If the only name Washington hockey fans have ever heard of is Alexander Ovechkin and suddenly their team comes away from the draft with some Evgeni Malkin kid, it'd look bad. The same would apply to drafting Crosby vs Kessel, except to a much greater degree.

 

[It Kills Me]

Michal Frolik .

 

[Marchy79]

Kessel didn't get that much hype because he's in the States, and in the State's, the majority of people don't care about hockey, especially 17 year olds who play hockey. Gary Bettman had no control over the situation. He couldn't market Kessel, he couldn't do anything with Kessel. Kessel is not yet in the NHL.

If Kessel was in Canada, you can argue that he'd probably be getting as much hype as Crosby. Look at what Spezza got.

Its a very valid point.

What is a valid point??? That Spezza got recognition as a kid???

Maybe that had something to do with the fact that he ALSO was a 15 year old kid doing damage in the OHL (where Kessel would have definately have been had he had the talent at that age to do so).

Spezza is also a rare case, whom has not shown his best in the big time yet (only because they've brought him along VERY slowly in Ottawa, severely limiting his playing time). Come this year, you'll be seeing a good reason why this kid was in competition for the #1 draft slot (against Kovalchuk).

And you mention that Bettman has no say in youth... I agree and disagree... For example, in an all-star magazine released a few years back... They had a list of 'future all-stars'... Guys who were not Draft eligible (some not even close) but it was an early future watch... You know who made that list, and therefore, increased his hype? Jay Bouwmeester (who was 2 years away from draft day).

Kessel HAS been scouted at a young age... It's fact. Proof of this is the fact that the OHL scouts went to his minor league games (so he DID in fact make some noise). & believe it or not, many of these high potential youth get agents at VERY young ages... HAD Kessel shown anywhere near Crosby level talent at a similar age, he would have been COMPLETELY edged towards the OHL (to get him that much closer to playing a full schedule, and in front of packed crowds night after night.

 

[Marchy79]

And the reason he wasn't the first pick in the OHL is not because he wasn't the best player, its because he didn't commit to playing here. A team is not going to waste a pick when there is a chance that the kid will go the university route instead. Look at Logan Couture. Before Tavares, he was gonna be the #1 pick. But then Tavares became eligible, and Couture got bumped. You'd expect him to go #2 right? No. His lawyer told teams that there was a chance that Couture would go the college route, and he fell all the way to 12th.

You also forget the fact that a young Logan Couture got a very bad rep around the OHL circles by essentially telling off the league, and PUBLICALLY saying he would NEVER play in that league.

It took a very receptive Ottawa organization (IMO one of the best in the O) to stand up and show how much they wanted this kid in a '67's jersey (aka having the fans greet him with applause at a playoff game, full with signs and all).

It's sad that words froma 16 year old were taken so seriously, esp. after the rejection he must've felt realizing he wasn't going #1... However them's the bricks.... As far as I know, Kessel made his choice after the draft, and never told anyone off.

 

[nuck]

Too early to compare them. The NTDP is not a yardstick for comparison to Major Junior Hockey. The stats don't translate in any meangful way. At this point Kessel can't even be compared to the better College draftees never mind the most highly regarded Major Junior prospect since Lindros. At the same age didn't Craig Simpson already have a 57pt point season with Michigan State under his belt? Phil is still just a prospect until he makes his mark in a league that is more a known quantity. Not to deny the sky's the limit for him but I will feel more comfortable predicting his future after he has shown his stuff in College.

 

[Hab Fan]

I was browsing a few team forums today (not on HF) and came across a post about Kessel. The author suggested about 1/2 of the GMs would have chosen Kessel over Sidney if given the chance at this years draft and that a recent poll actually proved this claim. I was wondering if everyone was in the same position what they would have done. I've only seen Kessel once and he looked very slick and impressive, on the other hand I've only seen a few highlight videos on Crosby.

So does anyone think Kessel has more potential or is Crosby really a step ahead of him. If you were Craig Patrick and they both came out, would Kessel have made you think twice? Just curious, I honestly haven't seen them play enough to make a judgement (I suppose I could based on hype but I'd rather not). If this has been done already Ill delete it.

If anyone has seen them both play, you KNOW Crosby is miles ahead in every aspect. Now, further, there aren't many players that have played WITH both-Jack Johnson being one. I read an article quoting Johnson as saying in ANY tough situation, seven game series etc, one game for it all, Sid hands down! He aluded to character and how well liked and respected amongst teammates makes a real team. He mentioned that if anyone came after Sid the whole team was there, and it definately wasn't that way the last 2 years with Kessel. Says volumes I think. I think that article was published in Calgary before the draft. If I can find it I'll attach it.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Miles ahead in every ascpest. Kessel is faster and has a better shot. Both are pretty accurate but IMO Kessel's is harder. I do not know if Kessel and Johnson got along but Kessel semed to have his non-favorites on the u18 team. If Skille did not go to WI i think Kessel would have those two seemed to really be at odds with each other. Crosby is easily more liked and works harder. Johnson charged the mound when Crosby got beaned in a youth baseball game. How could you not say your best friend is the best. And didn't the devolpental team used to play junior teams and beat them pretty bad. So they stopped playing each other. Is was awhile ago but i am sure they handled them pretty well.

When people say 10x or 20x better does that mean you would rather have one Crosby over 10 Kessels?

Comparing these two is almost like picking Jagr or Modano in the mid 90's? The big scorer or the team player that also scores a lot.

 

[Stuart McDonald]

Crosby's torso strength is said to be as good as the elite players in the NHL. That's where hockey players get their power and speed. That's another reason why few are calling him small even though he's only 5' 11".

The Kessel Crosby comparison age-wise is legit because they are less than two months apart in age.

In the end does Kessel have the on ice vision and more importantly the poise of Crosby?

Personally, if someone said either of those two would win the Rocket Richard trophy and come second in the National League in scoring in their third year in the NHL they would be on schedule. Well Kovalchuk has done that already but people are still picking him to come 10th in scoring. Nobody is comparing him to the greats of the past either.

Personally, I think he's a younger, smarter Bobby Hull with hair.

I'm gonna have the last laugh on this one.