Kessel and Crosby

[Marchy79]

Gawd that Pierre Maguire can crack me up sometimes



Seriously though...

That has got to be the dumbest comment I have ever heard a hockey telecaster EVER say.
Crosby has been in the National Spotlight, to be the heir apparent, as only a VERY FEW select players have the opportunity to do.

Let's see here... Crosby's name was mentioned to the same degree as Eric Lindros, Mario Lemieux, & Wayne Gretzky. (as in child prodigy)

The first time I EVER heard of Kessel was a thread here about the '07 draft, where someone was wondering if he was the consensus #1... With Crosby there never was that doubt. He is/was the #1.

Just look at Sid's #'s with Rimouski, and what he did for that team from year one, to year 2... That's a special talent, that comes around once MAYBE every 20-30 years. It took, LITERALLY the Greatest Junior hockey team EVER ASSEMBLED to take out Rimouski, and Sid in the Memorial cup. Any other year, and Sid would have an additional ring on his finger now.

For the people who may not realize, but Sid's name has been mentioned since he was 13 (nationally), as 'the kid from Dartmouth to keep an eye on'.

Now I won't doubt that Kessel will develop and become the #1 guy in '07... But I'm sorry the 'hype' would have been there a LONG time ago if he was in that class... As I've mentioned before, it never fails when special kids are drafted, that they are known about here (in Canada) years before their first NHL game.

 

[cagney]

First off, I think Crosby is better.

With that said, I don't understand the "argument" that Crosby is better because he was hyped at a younger age. Do you really expect a kid from Wisconsin to get anywhere near the hype that a Canadian boy, who was able to play in a nationally reknowned tournament (Air Canada Cup, where Crosby first made his name), was able to? Regardless, the amount of time someone has been hyped is a totally worthless gauge of comparison for who is a better player.

 

[Mothra]

First off, I think Crosby is better.

With that said, I don't understand the "argument" that Crosby is better because he was hyped at a younger age. Do you really expect a kid from Wisconsin to get anywhere near the hype that a Canadian boy, who was able to play in a nationally reknowned tournament (Air Canada Cup, where Crosby first made his name), was able to? Regardless, the amount of time someone has been hyped is a totally worthless gauge of comparison for who is a better player.

well said.....

 

[Dakota Sioux]

We will know alot more about these 2 after this year.I saw both of them and the world juniors and would give the nod to Crosby for the simple fact that he plays better on the defensive end,although there wasn't much of that at the tourney as the Canadiens dominated.I will get to see Kessel play on TV this year and in person when the gophs come up to Grand Forks and play the SIOUX.I'm sure it's 1 year at the college level then off to the NHL.

 

[DaveMatthew]

It'd be interesting to see how people would perceive these 2 prospects if their situations were flipped. If Kessel was Canadian and Crosby was American, would Kessel be "the next one"? That is very possible.

I think Crosby is a fantastic player, and I would personally take him over Kessel, but he was so hyped up by the Canadian media that, perhaps, it made him look like he was so far above anyone else. I really don't think that's the case. Kessel, being an American, has not received this hype and this hurts him in comparison threads like this.

I don't think this comment by McGuire is totally off base. In fact, I believe it.

 

[Marchy79]

First off, I think Crosby is better.

With that said, I don't understand the "argument" that Crosby is better because he was hyped at a younger age. Do you really expect a kid from Wisconsin to get anywhere near the hype that a Canadian boy, who was able to play in a nationally reknowned tournament (Air Canada Cup, where Crosby first made his name), was able to? Regardless, the amount of time someone has been hyped is a totally worthless gauge of comparison for who is a better player.

Ummm... Actually, my bet is a US kid would get twice the hype if he had Crosby potential. Do you really think Bettman would let an American Golden Child go to waste (or 23 other media outlets for that matter)? Maybe so... but then again, most likely not.

The fact that this kid is in the same discussion as Crosby is rediculous. Kessel was drafted in the OHL... Was there any hype over the fact that he decided to opt out and go the University route (great decision on his part BTW... I certainly am not saying there is a flux, I make mention of this fact that it was no where to be seen) while Crosby was talked about when the Q draft came up, and he was selected by Rimouski first overall... Furthermore, Kessel has weaker aspects to his game that people are overlooking... The fact is the kid is a bit of a showboat, likes to act up behind the play, and shows almost no leaadership qualities (though he's one of the oldest heading in to the '88 draft). The kid shows talent, but it is not at the same level Sid has displayed on a consistent basis...

Furthermore, out of the players who have been hyped like Sid was (at such a young age...) the failure rate is VERY minimal (Only one comes to mind... Daniel Cleary, and that was due to injuries in Junior). Before someone mentions Daigle, bear in mind, I mentioned young age, not first overall selection.

The 'Kessel hasn't had as much oppurtunity' line is whacked, simply because had he of shown Franchise level talent (like Sid) at such a young age, there would have been clamouring all over the place... And almost certainly would be the first pick in the OHL draft (where he fell to eighth)...

The next prospect people will drool all over is Tavares in Oshawa... There's another young kid getting twice the recognition, again at a younger age, and did what Phil couldn't/didn't.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Ummm... Actually, my bet is a US kid would get twice the hype if he had Crosby potential. Do you really think Bettman would let an American Golden Child go to waste (or 23 other media outlets for that matter)? Maybe so... but then again, most likely not.

The fact that this kid is in the same discussion as Crosby is rediculous. Kessel was drafted in the OHL... Was there any hype over the fact that he decided to opt out and go the University route (great decision on his part BTW... I certainly am not saying there is a flux, I make mention of this fact that it was no where to be seen) while Crosby was talked about when the Q draft came up, and he was selected by Rimouski first overall... Furthermore, Kessel has weaker aspects to his game that people are overlooking... The fact is the kid is a bit of a showboat, likes to act up behind the play, and shows almost no leaadership qualities (though he's one of the oldest heading in to the '88 draft). The kid shows talent, but it is not at the same level Sid has displayed on a consistent basis...

Furthermore, out of the players who have been hyped like Sid was (at such a young age...) the failure rate is VERY minimal (Only one comes to mind... Daniel Cleary, and that was due to injuries in Junior). Before someone mentions Daigle, bear in mind, I mentioned young age, not first overall selection.

The 'Kessel hasn't had as much oppurtunity' line is whacked, simply because had he of shown Franchise level talent (like Sid) at such a young age, there would have been clamouring all over the place... And almost certainly would be the first pick in the OHL draft (where he fell to eighth)...

The next prospect people will drool all over is Tavares in Oshawa... There's another young kid getting twice the recognition, again at a younger age, and did what Phil couldn't/didn't.

Kessel didn't get that much hype because he's in the States, and in the State's, the majority of people don't care about hockey, especially 17 year olds who play hockey. Gary Bettman had no control over the situation. He couldn't market Kessel, he couldn't do anything with Kessel. Kessel is not yet in the NHL.

If Kessel was in Canada, you can argue that he'd probably be getting as much hype as Crosby. Look at what Spezza got.

Its a very valid point.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Ummm... Actually, my bet is a US kid would get twice the hype if he had Crosby potential. Do you really think Bettman would let an American Golden Child go to waste (or 23 other media outlets for that matter)? Maybe so... but then again, most likely not.

The fact that this kid is in the same discussion as Crosby is rediculous. Kessel was drafted in the OHL... Was there any hype over the fact that he decided to opt out and go the University route (great decision on his part BTW... I certainly am not saying there is a flux, I make mention of this fact that it was no where to be seen) while Crosby was talked about when the Q draft came up, and he was selected by Rimouski first overall... Furthermore, Kessel has weaker aspects to his game that people are overlooking... The fact is the kid is a bit of a showboat, likes to act up behind the play, and shows almost no leaadership qualities (though he's one of the oldest heading in to the '88 draft). The kid shows talent, but it is not at the same level Sid has displayed on a consistent basis...

Furthermore, out of the players who have been hyped like Sid was (at such a young age...) the failure rate is VERY minimal (Only one comes to mind... Daniel Cleary, and that was due to injuries in Junior). Before someone mentions Daigle, bear in mind, I mentioned young age, not first overall selection.

The 'Kessel hasn't had as much oppurtunity' line is whacked, simply because had he of shown Franchise level talent (like Sid) at such a young age, there would have been clamouring all over the place... And almost certainly would be the first pick in the OHL draft (where he fell to eighth)...

The next prospect people will drool all over is Tavares in Oshawa... There's another young kid getting twice the recognition, again at a younger age, and did what Phil couldn't/didn't.

And the reason he wasn't the first pick in the OHL is not because he wasn't the best player, its because he didn't commit to playing here. A team is not going to waste a pick when there is a chance that the kid will go the university route instead. Look at Logan Couture. Before Tavares, he was gonna be the #1 pick. But then Tavares became eligible, and Couture got bumped. You'd expect him to go #2 right? No. His lawyer told teams that there was a chance that Couture would go the college route, and he fell all the way to 12th.

 

[Ogopogo*]

......and how about those sportscasters(McGuire) ?

Anyway,methinks all these silly discussions are going to end very, very soon.

I honeslty can't believe that McGuire still has a job. The guys is a bad color man and one helluva geek.

It is not hard to see why he only lasted one season coaching, I can't imagine 23 NHL players having enough respect to listen to him.

 

[Le Golie]

Kessel would certainly be more talked about if he were Canadian, there's no doubt about it. But he wouldn't be getting Crosby-type hype.

Ghost #1, there are a few reasons why your points are shaky. First off, Kessel is a bit less certain to be the #1 pick in '06 because frankly the top end of that draft class is better than the '05 class was. Frolik, Toews, Mueller and maybe more would probably have all gone ahead of Bobby Ryan this year. While Crosby is a once-in-a-generation talent, he didn't have anyone pushing him hard for his draft spot.

And don't cofuse Kessel with an average #1 overall pick in an average year. He is better than that. We as fans are very lucky to have three consecutive potential mega-stars in the '04, '05, and '06. I have seen a fair bit of all three play and Crosby has the edge in potential right now. He's also is the best position to succeed. However, Ovechkin and Kessel are amazing talents too and things come together for them they both have the potential to be equally special.

 

[KeepitinPitt]

Just shows you how uneducated some posters are.

No NHL GM would pick Kessel over Crosby without losing his job that very day.

As far as Kessel vs Crosby goes, yeah I guess I am uneducated. I fully admitted to that, which is why I started the thread. I live in Western PA and the only hockey I get to watch is Penguin hockey. I'm not familiar with any channels that I can order that would give me access to more junior and world games. I was real excited when I heard that Robert Morris college was playing the U-18 USA team unfortunately (as I should have expected) the game will be at UMass (I believe). Anyway that is pretty much why I come here because the info I get from the other posters is incredible.

Really good points made by everyone by the way. Can't wait to see what these two (not to mention the other young studs coming up) are going to do in the NHL.

 

[thomasincanada]

As far as Kessel vs Crosby goes, yeah I guess I am uneducated.

I don't think he was referring to you, actually

 

[Genghis Keon]

Ghost #1, there are a few reasons why your points are shaky. First off, Kessel is a bit less certain to be the #1 pick in '06 because frankly the top end of that draft class is better than the '05 class was. Frolik, Toews, Mueller and maybe more would probably have all gone ahead of Bobby Ryan this year. While Crosby is a once-in-a-generation talent, he didn't have anyone pushing him hard for his draft spot.

I agree and disagree. I agree that his points are shaky and Crosby never really had anyone pushing him (despite the odd Brule backers), but I kind of disagree that the 06 draft's top-end is better than the 05's. Obviously it looks better now because its top end hasn't really been under scrutiny yet while the 05's has been, so a guy like Michael "the best czech prospect since Jagr" Frolik could well end up falling like Gilbert "the next Sakic/Yzerman" Brule, or his countrymen Jiri Hudler and Rusty Olesz; incidentally, both held the "the best czech prospect since Jagr" moniker as 14-17 year olds too. Guys like Toews and Mueller who haven't been as hyped as Kessel and Frolik might prove their worth as hot shot franchise potential players or they could very well drop as well (even if it just means they are seen on the same level as guys like Ryan or Benoit Pouliot). Remember how good the Crosby, Brule, Latendresse, Kindl, Anikeenko top 5 looked a year ago? All were seen as potentially franchise players and look how things look a year later. Not to take anything away from Frolik, Toews, or Mueller, it's just that they're going to have to go through the microscope like Bobby Ryan (and Brule, Hudler, Olesz, Latendresse, Kindl, and Anikeenko) already has. Obviously they might still keep their potential franchise player tags, but I'd take the "sure shot" (at least "sure shot" compared to players still a year away from their draft year) Bobby Ryan and Jack Johnson before every 06 eligible player except for Kessel (I'd also probably choose Johnson before Kessel because I'm a huge fan of his game, though I've only seen a few games of his).

 

[KeepitinPitt]

I don't think he was referring to you, actually

Oops hehe. Sorry about that. I wasnt offended either way, didn't mean to sound like it though.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

If Phil Kessel was Canadian, the hype on him will not be as good as Crosby. Why not? Hes just not as good as him. They will not call him the next who ever, or something, or the next player that will save hockey, no, a player at that skill level will not be labled that. Only in the States will they do that, because they do not generate as much great players as Canadians, and when the time comes, then they try to hype it up. Sorry, not to bash Kessel, but im saying it as it is. Hes just not as good as Crosby.

 

[MM425]

The only NHL GM's that would take Kessel over Crosby are the avid crack users.

In other words... Mike Milbury.

 

[EroCaps]

The only NHL GM's that would take Kessel over Crosby are the avid crack users.

In other words... Mike Milbury.

I'm going to laugh when Crosby and Kessel have marginally different careers.

 

[Le Golie]

I'm going to laugh when Crosby and Kessel have marginally different careers.

Whatever helps you sleep at night champ. I'm already laughing thinking about how you'll spend the next twenty years rubbing your hands together in the dark waiting to see if you had the last laugh. All because you are so insecure about Ovechkin.

Face it, if it Kessel being paraded as 'better than Ovechkin' you'd take every opportunity to trash him too. It's old. You shouldn't be like this, real hockey people do agree with you that Ovechkin is special. Don't let it ruin your life.

 

[Hatter]

Kessel. period

 

[Le Golie]

Kessel. period

That's the kind of insight that changes opinions. Excellent post.

 

[Mothra]

That's the kind of insight that changes opinions. Excellent post.

as opposed to your 2 paragraph personal attack two posts above?

 

[espo*]

Kessel. period

Would like to hear why.

 

[Le Golie]

as opposed to your 2 paragraph personal attack two posts above?

Personal attack? Hardly. People call out homers all the time, at least I rationalized it. Nice try.

 

[Mothra]

Personal attack? Hardly. People call out homers all the time, at least I rationalized it. Nice try.

hmmm.....didnt see him make any mention of Ovechkin in his post, you brought that up....so how was his comment on Kessel/Crosby homerish?

 

[espo*]

hmmm.....didnt see him make any mention of Ovechkin in his post, you brought that up....so how was his comment on Kessel/Crosby homerish?

I'm sure he connected the dots there,i did i know that. As for Kessel period.........Why so adamant,fill us in please!! Him,not you