Confirmed with Link: Kessel and a 4th to Arizona for Galchenyuk and PO Joseph

[ColePens]

Give me a 30 year old with great talent over a 21 year old scrub any day of the week. The obsession with youth and speed around here is ridiculous.

Kessels contract is an absolute steal.

While I understand and agree that Phil Kessel is well worth his contract (and it will be solidified even more on 7/1), this is a pretty piss poor take on the situation. You can't just ignore all the factors around - salary cap, recent results, fit, the contract moving forward, age, ESG, etc.


Once again - I think people can stand up and say I was one of the few that kept saying 81 at 6.8 for his production is pretty damn awesome. It's irreplaceable. But simply ignoring the factors around with the contract, the NTC, etc is silly. The Steelers were a team that used to do this so well. They'd move on from players JUST at the right time. The Pens, unfortunately, now have to do that too. And guess what - so do 30 other NHL teams. It's the name of the game to stay relative.

 

[Terrapin]

No one wants the Penguins to fail. It’s just some of us aren’t in the mindset of we just won 2 cups 2 years ago, so everyone is great and fully trusting our idiot coach and gm.

Our window is maybe 2 or so more years. We lost the Kessel trade in the short term. That’s all.

I am just so sick of Sullivan running players out of town. He was a journeyman and a joke of a coach until he stumbled into this job when Bylsma was fired.

I just think it’s foolish to dump a guy that did score a ppg for a guy that produces at half as much when you are trying to contend next year. Yea, some of those points were on the pp.

Our best RW is now Hornqvist....let that sink in.

This is the thing I just can't get past. It's not like Sullivan was the most decorated genius coach in the history of sport. Trading player after player just because this idiot doesn't like a guy is beyond stupid. Ok, maybe do it once or twice. But after a while even a moron has to realize that maybe, just maybe it's the coach that's the problem, and not all of the players

 

[Andy99]

Recent studies have shown that thinking about running burns more calories than actually running

It’s also better on the knees...

 

[Terrapin]

While I understand and agree that Phil Kessel is well worth his contract (and it will be solidified even more on 7/1), this is a pretty piss poor take on the situation. You can't just ignore all the factors around - salary cap, recent results, fit, the contract moving forward, age, ESG, etc.


Once again - I think people can stand up and say I was one of the few that kept saying 81 at 6.8 for his production is pretty damn awesome. It's irreplaceable. But simply ignoring the factors around with the contract, the NTC, etc is silly. The Steelers were a team that used to do this so well. They'd move on from players JUST at the right time. The Pens, unfortunately, now have to do that too. And guess what - so do 30 other NHL teams. It's the name of the game to stay relative.

Ok, how's this for a take. We scored 6 goals in 4 playoff games against a bad team, and we just traded arguably our best goal scoring winger. To me, a guy that produces like he does, and on a contract like he has, you do whatever it takes to make it 'fit'. And if it absolutely doesn't, your upper management doesn't shit all over the guy so his value tanks

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I hope he does well/has fun in the desert.

But as someone who has been openly pining for Kessel to be traded for two years, I can only say that a player being a gigantic turd 5 on 5 and making Evgeni Malkin lose his **** so much as to be a pedestrian asset, that is not a steal of a contract no matter how many points you’re in on when on the PP. That is a player you absolutely have to trade.

Anyone not understanding that to me is just not comprehending what he is seeing.

The only issue was not getting completely reamed due to his NTC, and JR richly avoided embarrassment. What Chucky does will determine, whether it ultimately is a success, but standing pat just wasn’t an option.

Not sure if AG ultimately decides this trade. We have seen how cap space can be leveraged as a potent weapon for teams that have it.

AG could have a bad year and he walks, then how JR uses that extra cap, IMHO, could be how this trade is graded down the line.

Lots of variables in how this trade will be viewed 2-3 years from now.

 

[froods]

This is the thing I just can't get past. It's not like Sullivan was the most decorated genius coach in the history of sport. Trading player after player just because this idiot doesn't like a guy is beyond stupid. Ok, maybe do it once or twice. But after a while even a moron has to realize that maybe, just maybe it's the coach that's the problem, and not all of the players

Phil has been a problem for every single coach he has had his entire career.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Not to throw us off topic but that is my absolute favorite. I love tennis or working out in exhausting heat. It really challenges you.

You are one disturbed individual.

 

[froods]

Ok, how's this for a take. We scored 6 goals in 4 playoff games against a bad team, and we just traded arguably our best goal scoring winger. To me, a guy that produces like he does, and on a contract like he has, you do whatever it takes to make it 'fit'. And if it absolutely doesn't, your upper management doesn't **** all over the guy so his value tanks

Did we not score because we missed a bunch of shots or did we not score because the other team beat us to 9 out of 10 pucks in the dirty areas?

 

[ColePens]

Ok, how's this for a take. We scored 6 goals in 4 playoff games against a bad team, and we just traded arguably our best goal scoring winger. To me, a guy that produces like he does, and on a contract like he has, you do whatever it takes to make it 'fit'. And if it absolutely doesn't, your upper management doesn't **** all over the guy so his value tanks

I still don't think you are grasping the concept. Nobody ever should be disagreeing that Phil is an elite goal scorer who can change any game in 1 second. Nobody should.

It's everything else you are ignoring. And yes - laughably the Pens management has done this before with trying to make someone look like the bad guy. And typical yinzers will eat it up. "PHIL DIDNT WANT TO BE HERE? TELL HIM TO GO TO CLEVELAND."

While your rage in regards to the scenario has some merit, you are blindly ignoring the rest to fit your rage.

 

[LOGiK]

Ok, how's this for a take. We scored 6 goals in 4 playoff games against a bad team, and we just traded arguably our best goal scoring winger. To me, a guy that produces like he does, and on a contract like he has, you do whatever it takes to make it 'fit'. And if it absolutely doesn't, your upper management doesn't **** all over the guy so his value tanks

I'm actually kind of sad phil is gone. Just going out the way he did does not sit well with me with whatever is going on with the penguins running things over there.

 

[Corvidae]

Not to throw us off topic but that is my absolute favorite. I love tennis or working out in exhausting heat. It really challenges you.

Yeah challenges you too see how much you can heave onto the hot pavement.

 

[Stoptheinsanity71]

I hope he does well/has fun in the desert.

But as someone who has been openly pining for Kessel to be traded for two years, I can only say that a player being a gigantic turd 5 on 5 and making Evgeni Malkin lose his **** so much as to be a pedestrian asset, that is not a steal of a contract no matter how many points you’re in on when on the PP. That is a player you absolutely have to trade.

Anyone not understanding that to me is just not comprehending what he is seeing.

The only issue was not getting completely reamed due to his NTC, and JR richly avoided embarrassment. What Chucky does will determine, whether it ultimately is a success, but standing pat just wasn’t an option.

Wow someone with a pinpoint spot on accurate analysis. It does not matter how many points a player has or how lethal their shot is if they make Malkin less of a player. We just got rid of a turnover machine and the only thing I disagree with you is this trade is already a success. I think Chuck may work with Malkin. If not, next season JR will have the money to target Malkins winger for the rest of his career here. If he chooses poorly this time he should be fired.

 

[ColePens]

Not sure if AG ultimately decides this trade. We have seen how cap space can be leveraged as a potent weapon for teams that have it.

AG could have a bad year and he walks, then how JR uses that extra cap, IMHO, could be how this trade is graded down the line.

Lots of variables in how this trade will be viewed 2-3 years from now.

We might need to sticky this post across all Kessel discussions. If he goes and spends the money on a Simmonds or some other 30+ year old to a long term deal, then it's silly/stupid. It's pointlesss. Just keep the guy who can change a game in a split second.

But if they use it intelligently and we keep getting younger, we really can extend this era even further. That is kick ass.

 

[Corvidae]

Not sure if AG ultimately decides this trade. We have seen how cap space can be leveraged as a potent weapon for teams that have it.

AG could have a bad year and he walks, then how JR uses that extra cap, IMHO, could be how this trade is graded down the line.

Lots of variables in how this trade will be viewed 2-3 years from now.

The freed cap space being used to bring in Panoof or Perry = Trade Lost

 

[The Greatest 101]

Give me a 30 year old with great talent over a 21 year old scrub any day of the week. The obsession with youth and speed around here is ridiculous.

Kessels contract is an absolute steal.

I think some people are just looking for silver linings. JR seems to fall in love with mediocre young players.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Phil has been a problem for every single coach he has had his entire career.

That's because each and every one of them wanted him to be something he is not and tried to get him to change rather than exploit and use his talents as a weapon that he is.

Some *change* is not good.

 

[Gurglesons]

The freed cap space being used to bring in Panoof or Perry = Trade Lost

Depends on the term and amount for Perry.

Perry at 1.5 + Gally and cap space next year is 100% a win imo. Especially when you factor in that late 1st rounder in Joseph.

Imagine if they get someone like Williams due to the JR connection for one year.

 

[mpp9]

I'm all aboard going younger, but I have no problem signing Zucc, Justin Williams or another 30+ forward in that mold. They're good players who can help us win now and in a year or two.

I think the forward group is about as good as it gets short of going nuclear. Let it play out during the season and make adjustments. We have a winger for Sid and a third wheel. A winger for G and a third wheel. A bunch of bottom six forwards to fill things out or move up as needed.

The only change left that could really get this team back into Cup favorite conversation is getting rid of JJ and finding a legit #3D to pair with Schultz.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's because each and every one of them wanted him to be something he is not and tried to get him to change rather than exploit and use his talents as a weapon that he is.

Some *change* is not good.

They did that for 4 years, and then Kessel's negatives started to outweigh his positives. Which is why they traded him. If asking him to play competent defense is "trying to get him to change", he doesn't deserve to be on any team for an extended period of time.

The excuses people make for Kessel are absolutely mind boggling. The argument of "he doesn't have to play defense because he's an offensive winger" is just comically dumb.

 

[Lust for Life]

I'll add this to my previous post:

I like that Galchenyuk is a pending UFA. Either he works out and you re-sign him, hopefully, or you let him walk and use the power of cap space to acquire another fit. That's the type of flexibility you wouldn't have had with Kessel.

 

[Gurglesons]

By the way, for those bemoaning the loss of star talent, the Pens now have: Poulin, Addisson, Joseph, Legare, Hallander, Bellerive, a 1st round pick next year, and a more flexible cap situation. It’s not stacked, but the organization has actual draft/prospect/cap capital which allows JR to be in on big moves if available.

Exactly.

JR deserves a lot of credit for restocking the youth on the fly this year. Might not make us a better team this year, but should pay huge dividends in us being flexible while being a contender for the remaining Malkin and Sid years.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

I’m here to say that I love this deal. Stop looking at the past and how Phil was a PPG player.

If you are going to look at anything, look at his disappearing act the second half of the year and how he impacted us much more negatively than positive.

That on top of all the off ice stuff and it was an easy call that he was the one to go.

Can’t comment on the return. Don’t really know either of these guys but I’m excited to see what they can do here. The trade is over with so I’m not going to sit here and do the “what-if” game.

I’m glad the FO grew some balls and fixed the locker room before this got really bad. I’m sick of being a fan of Pittsburgh sports teams and having guys on the team that don’t want to be there.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Depends on the term and amount for Perry.

Perry at 1.5 + Gally and cap space next year is 100% a win imo. Especially when you factor in that late 1st rounder in Joseph.

Imagine if they get someone like Williams due to the JR connection for one year.

I think the problem with this idea is that they already have a super full top-9, I don't know where someone like Perry or Williams would go. To me, their top-9 is one of these 2 things right now:

Guentzel-Crosby-Kahun/McCann
Galchenyuk-Malkin-Rust
McCann/Kahun-Bjugstad-Hornqvist

or

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Kahun/McCann-Malkin-Galchenyuk
McCann/Kahun-Bjugstad-Hornqvist

Where would Williams fit in that? I just don't see it. My guess is that they add some scoring punch and speed to their 4th line, possibly with upgrading on one of Simon or ZAR.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think the problem with this idea is that they already have a super full top-9, I don't know where someone like Perry or Williams would go. To me, their top-9 is one of these 2 things right now:

Guentzel-Crosby-Kahun/McCann
Galchenyuk-Malkin-Rust
McCann/Kahun-Bjugstad-Hornqvist

or

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Kahun/McCann-Malkin-Galchenyuk
McCann/Kahun-Bjugstad-Hornqvist

Where would Williams fit in that? I just don't see it. My guess is that they add some scoring punch and speed to their 4th line, possibly with upgrading on one of Simon or ZAR.

Having all three of McCann, Rust, and Kahun in the top six while not a problem is a little underwhelming.

Guentzel - Sid - Williams
Gally - Malkin - Rust
McCann - Bjugstad - Hornqvist
Simon - Teddy - Kahun
ZAR

Is what I would run.

 

[Jacob]

I’m not wholly against Perry on the cheap, you see old guys settling into more depth roles in their later years all the time and helping teams win cups like Trottier & Andreychuk, I just don’t know if he’s going to be able to contribute much in a 4th line role. He’s a guy that’s used to playing 20 minutes on the top line and top PP. What’s he gonna do with 12 minutes with Blueger & virtually no PP time? Simon could probably give you the same production at half the price.

Unless we’re thinking he plays in the top 9.