Ken Holland's Remarks about the off-season

[InjuredChoker]

good for zett and dats coming out. i've thought they've had this feeling but for variety of reasons, hadn't said it.

i feel the kids we have, they will be solid complementary players but it won't happen soon enough. not next year. has to come from UFA or trade market.

 

[Frk It]

How so? Stockpiling young assets and grooming them with sprinkles of NHL games and lots of AHL experience, while not addressing scoring and D needs. I'm all for the AHL experience, but not at the neglect of the NHL needs.

It just bucks the trend.

We've been old forever, and people have wanted to see us get younger and play youngsters (myself included).

Your post seemed to indicate the opposite.

Just weird to see. Again not saying you're right or wrong, just weird.

 

[detredWINgs]

How does that not prove my point? You don't have, and you have lots of cap space (pre-Cleary and Sam and Bert signings) and you don't do anything.

It proves your point because I was agreeing with you.

 

[Chance on Chance]

I'm pretty worried about what happens to our plethora of D prospects if we sign a UFA to a 2+ year contract. If we sign Niskanen long term we risk getting our D prospects poached for nothing when they run out of options and we have no roster space for them. I think I would rather try to swing a trade for a more proven Dman than Niskanen (has only had 1 good year) involving one of our D prospects+. I can deal with Boyle for 1 year if it means we see 2 of Sproul/Ouellet/Marchenko the year after. I'd actually prefer if we promote both Marchenko and Ouellet next year and sign nobody new.

We almost have too many D prospects for GR right now as it is:

Ouellet - Sproul
Backman - Marchenko
Almquist - Jensen

Something has to give considering only 2-3 will be able to play long term in our core of Kronwall, Smith, Dekeyser, Ericsson.

I've been thinking about this too. I think management sees oulette and sproul as the guys we keep for sure and the others as trade bait. Even then that's a lot of good assets to have on the table and to trade for what?

 

[Chip39]

It seems like the Euro twins are looking to add some proven guys as opposed to preparing for the future they won't be a part of.

But it's hard not to read way too much into these quotes with our own bias in mind. If I only have a few years left I could care less about trading 19-22 year olds that are still 3-4 years from making an impact.

 

[Retire91]

I am good with them not signing anyone. I think a couple of seasons of just letting the kids brew and see who they end up with in the pipeline from the draft would be good for the wings. Boyle is too old the wings don't need rentals they are not built to perform in the playoffs right now. Niskanen will get an overpayment contract kinda like a Matt Carle or Jason Garrison so I think it would be good to pass on that. If they do sign Boyle maybe for the intent of having additional veterans to mentor the kids so short term but then again that is another roster spot taken by an old player that is not in the future plans. I don't think it makes to swing for the fenses on UFA when the current core is still so uncertain as to what you have at the NHL level. Espcially when there is no clear choice in UFA that is a slam dunk to fit needs.

Can we just get Lidstrom to un-retire?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Holland could have assembled a far better team the past two years if he didn't spend the previous two years holding back prospects, so garbage like Bert and Cleary could play. He gambled that washed up veterans were the best way to go for a cup, and it backfired miserably. Now the growing pains from the younger generation of players that should have happened much sooner, are now happening two years late.

If that article is true, regarding what the Wings need to do in order to get back to contending, Wings are SOL in terms of making the most of Z and Datsyuk's last couple prime years.

Ken Holland doing something ambitious? Most ambitious signing we have seen from him is signing a 41 year old Daniel Alfredsson.

I am expecting another season of "sitting on the fence" signings, and excuses when none of the Wings plan A targets end up in Detroit.

I think we are also well aware of the fact that Ken Holland says one thing in late April, but his actions in July end up completely contradicting his comments from April.

 

[detredWINgs]

good for zett and dats coming out. i've thought they've had this feeling but for variety of reasons, hadn't said it.

i feel the kids we have, they will be solid complementary players but it won't happen soon enough. not next year. has to come from UFA or trade market.

Maybe this is why the rumor of buying out Franzen has gained some steam? Not because he's not still an asset, but because his disappearing act is taking its toll on the dressing room? If the rumors are true that he has anxiety/depression issues, maybe he's an unitentional locker room cancer...Moping around, not emotionally present, etc. By all accounts he's a good guy but something is clearly wrong with him upstairs.

To be honest, the more I think about the Wings locker room this year, the more it pisses me off the environment that Holland potentially created. Franzen has his mental issues and his disappearing act; Cleary's a vocal leader and yet he's crap on the ice - can't imagine its pleasant to hear what he has to say when he can barely stand up on an ice surface anymore; Bertuzzi has his massive legal issues constantly looming; Alfie flat out said this year was "challenging" - leaving Ottawa, being injured, playing with scrubs; Tootoo had had known attitude/partying issues; Samuelsson allegedly blocking the buy-out and basically taking $6M from the Wings in exchange for nothing...Its a disaster.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Is it just me or is there some massive unfounded speculation coming from people here?

 

[InjuredChoker]

Maybe this is why the rumor of buying out Franzen has gained some steam? Not because he's not still an asset, but because his disappearing act is taking its toll on the dressing room? If the rumors are true that he has anxiety/depression issues, maybe he's an unitentional locker room cancer...Moping around, not emotionally present, etc. By all accounts he's a good guy but something is clearly wrong with him upstairs.

To be honest, the more I think about the Wings locker room this year, the more it pisses me off the environment that Holland potentially created. Franzen has his mental issues and his disappearing act; Cleary's a vocal leader and yet he's crap on the ice - can't imagine its pleasant to hear what he has to say when he can barely stand up on an ice surface anymore; Bertuzzi has his massive legal issues constantly looming; Alfie flat out said this year was "challenging" - leaving Ottawa, being injured, playing with scrubs; Tootoo had had known attitude/partying issues; Samuelsson allegedly blocking the buy-out and basically taking $6M from the Wings in exchange for nothing...Its a disaster.

lot of expiring contracts, fair amount of cap space to use, some nice assets to use.. they have chance to head into right direction.

we'll see if that happens. i'm afraid i'm not completely happy in what i see come in opening night roster.

 

[JPE123]

I know Holland has a tough job but outside of the Alfie signing name one move he's made that worked in the past 4years? Sammy, Cleary, Bert, Weiss, Legwand, Quincey have not served us well. Sometimes you have to look in the mirror. And while Alfie did help us get to playoffs, it's still a 1st round exit. I guess Gustavsson could be borderline good move but really poor decision making

 

[Frk It]

I know Holland has a tough job but outside of the Alfie signing name one move he's made that worked in the past 4years? Sammy, Cleary, Bert, Weiss, Legwand, Quincey have not served us well. Sometimes you have to look in the mirror. And while Alfie did help us get to playoffs, it's still a 1st round exit. I guess Gustavsson could be borderline good move but really poor decision making

We have drafted excellently over the last 4 years.

Roster moves have been a different story though....

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Holland has put himself in this mess due his atrocious asset management. I know Rick Nash had a mediocre season in New York, but wasn't the rumored asking price for him Franzen + Jarnkrok + ? a couple of summers ago? Instead we are stuck with a rapidly declining, lazy Mule and 30 games out of Legwand. That is just one example of a misplay by Holland. Sammy, Tootoo and no Suter plan B are other recent ones that come to mind, but we can go on and on.

I am in favor of keeping Sproul (he is our most dynamic D prospect) and including one of XO or Marchenko in a blockbuster. But wait...this is Holland we are talking about so there won't be any blockbuster acquisition. I guess we have more misfires to look forward to.

When your GM hasn't made a good hockey trade in 6 years, then you're going to be stuck with a roster in limbo.

 

[detredWINgs]

Is it just me or is there some massive unfounded speculation coming from people here?

Yes. Its unfounded speculation. Should we talk about things that are only surefire guarantees and fully supported facts? Because I hope you've got your mod work boots on then: you'll need to shut down 90% of the threads on this website.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

Holland has put himself in this mess due his atrocious asset management. I know Rick Nash had a mediocre season in New York, but wasn't the rumored asking price for him Franzen + Jarnkrok + ? ? Instead we are stuck with a rapidly declining Mule and 30 games out of Legwand. That is just one example of a misplay by Holland. Sammy, Tootoo and no Suter plan B are other recent ones that come to mind, but we can go on and on.

IIRC re: Nash Holland made a self proclaimed "helluva offer" for him but Howson didn't want to move him to Detroit, Not much he could have done there.

Agree with most of your point though.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

IIRC re: Nash Holland made a self proclaimed "helluva offer" for him but Howson didn't want to move him to Detroit, Not much he could have done there.

Agree with most of your point though.

That's right, but the reported deal breaker was that Howson wanted Jarnkrok included and Holland balked.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Yes. Its unfounded speculation. Should we talk about things that are only surefire guarantees and fully supported facts? Because I hope you've got your mod work boots on then: you'll need to shut down 90% of the threads on this website.

You and I both know there is a difference between speculating about moves a GM might make and putting thoughts into players' heads.

 

[Stuck in Socal]

Another deep cup run before D and Z are gone is what this team needs.

Holland is an awful gm. He has arguably 2 of the top 10 two-way players in the world, and he has nothing to show for in the past 5 years.

I'm not going to beat to death his atrocious job when it came to replacing Lidstrom and Rafalski.

This team is missing out on 2 proven players/winners (not Alfie.. too damn old/shadow of former self) from even having a small chance of beating Boston and going far in the playoffs.

Holland is going to have his typical off season. Sign some veteran on the tail end of their career.

 

[Flowah]

I agree with what I think the gist of Z, D are saying. The kids are good, great. But they can't carry a team, not yet. And time is running out on Z and D and they know it. They want to make a run.

To add those impact players is going to cost assets. The good news is we have assets. The bad news is we have assets. We're super excited by our prospects and the young pieces we figured out this season. And it will definitely cost them to get those impact players to our team. That will suck.

It's a gamble, but if you want to make a run you have to take some risks. Can't keep trading little trades for safe players who will help but not put you over the top.

At most, 1 impact top line forward. Everything else should be on improving the defense. Need more PMDs. We get hemmed in our own zone way too easily because our defense can't make that pass that springs us.

 

[Hendricks433]

Don't like Alfie coming back, we have plenty of that leadership in Z, Datsyuk and Kronner. Defense is a problem and if we sign someone long term we really kill ourselves with so many prospects almost ready. I'd rather ship Big E, Tatar + for an upgrade on Defense than have Kronner, E, Smith and Dekeyser. Just seems like too many #2-#4 guys and the only one with good offense is Smith(who's not allowed to use it on the PP) and kind of Kronwall and Ouellet comes up and is not an offensive D.

Z, Datsyuk, Abs
Nyquist, Weiss, Franzen
Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco
Miller, Helm, Glendening

That still lacks scoring to me and I would prefer:
Z, Datsyuk, Vanek/Callahan
Nyquist, Weiss, Franzen
Tatar, Sheahan, Jurco
Miller, Helm, Abs
Glendening/Anderson

If Weiss is still injury prone, move centers up and insert Glendening or split up Datsyuk and Z.

Kronner, Smith
Big E, Marchenko
Dekesyer, Ouellet

This D already looks way better than our playoff D. Would be sweet to see Sproul get some games too when there are injuries.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I really think the best possible scenario is to run with Ouellet and Sproul and use the cap space on a forward. Sproul fills the biggest gap, which is on the PP. Any stopgap would box him out, which would be one step forward for two steps back. I can see Kenny signing a 35+ guy for 3+ years, and that would be a terrible move.

I'd do it like this: battle between Ouellet and Backman for the LD spot, Sproul and Marchenko for the RD spot. If one of the losers really impresses, you dump Lashoff and give them the #7 spot. Dump Kindl regardless. But signing a vet for more than 1 year means you're getting rid of one of those 4. 2 vets and you're getting rid of 2.

Use the money to throw 7.5 or 8 mil at Vanek.

 

[Crymson]

Holland has put himself in this mess due his atrocious asset management. I know Rick Nash had a mediocre season in New York, but wasn't the rumored asking price for him Franzen + Jarnkrok + ? a couple of summers ago? Instead we are stuck with a rapidly declining, lazy Mule and 30 games out of Legwand. That is just one example of a misplay by Holland. Sammy, Tootoo and no Suter plan B are other recent ones that come to mind, but we can go on and on.

The reputed asking price for Nash was a top-six forward, a top prospect, and a 1st. Said price was also reportedly going to be vastly higher for a division rival, which Detroit was at the time.

That's right, but the reported deal breaker was that Howson wanted Jarnkrok included and Holland balked.

Source, please. I read a lot of hockey material, and I never once heard so much as a whisper of this.

Yes. Its unfounded speculation. Should we talk about things that are only surefire guarantees and fully supported facts? Because I hope you've got your mod work boots on then: you'll need to shut down 90% of the threads on this website.

There's a difference between unfounded speculation and stating such unfounded speculation as fact. There is also a difference between speculation and outright fantasy.

Another deep cup run before D and Z are gone is what this team needs.

Holland is an awful gm. He has arguably 2 of the top 10 two-way players in the world, and he has nothing to show for in the past 5 years.

What's your opinion on Ray Shero?

 

[SoupNazi]

Holland is an awful gm. He has arguably 2 of the top 10 two-way players in the world, and he has nothing to show for in the past 5 years.

I disagree with you. Please change my mind.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Weiss-Helm-Mantha
Abdelkader-Glendening-Miller

Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-Niskanen
Ouellet-Marchenko

Howard
Mrazek

This is how I would start the season. I would love to add Vanek, but I don't see him signing here. I'm on the fence regarding Alfredsson, but I think we need to get younger. And with that said, we should buy out Franzen as well. I'm willing to also trade assets for an upgrade.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I disagree with you. Please change my mind.

Franzen over Hossa, Jason Williams, Todd Bertuzzi, Mikael Samuelsson, Jordan Tootoo, Daniel Cleary, Daniel Cleary(again), Legwand trade, Quincey trade, Howard contract, Carlo Colaiachivo, being surprised old guys were getting hurt, or not producing, or both. Holland's track record is not the best since the cup run in 2009. I mean, I guess he signed Brunner. Weiss was a gamble, but a worth while one, imo. Aldredsson was good. Constantly sitting on his hands during the 2010-2012 seasons when his best assets were getting older, contented with borderline playoff team while playing washed up vets over youth. There's a lot to criticize. I don't blame him for not getting Suter or even Bouwmeester, and I'm not saying he's a horrible general manager, but his track record speaks for itself.