Ken Holland's Remarks about the off-season

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SoupNazi

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Feb 6, 2010
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franzen being gone clears pretty good cap space longterm and a top 6 spot that could go to someone who actually helps us win today and tomorrow

tootoo being bought out clears 2 million? in cap space for 9 months and an ahl forward

those compliance buyouts should only be used for actual bad long term contracts, your bryzgalovs(sp) and lecavaliersm not your 1 year/2million dollar players

And in a few years when the cap is $90 million or above, his $3.9 million cap hit isn't going to matter that much.

But just for fun, who is this top-six dynamo who is going to help us next year?
 

Claypool

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The streaky nature of Tatar will eventually show itself, it has in Grand Rapids and it did in Detroit. But people like the way he forces plays and appears to be hustling (he usually is) when watching him. It doesn't matter that for instance Mule is a far better defensive player and turns over the puck far less. Yes Tats will continue to develop but he hasn't worn the goat horns and is unlikely to, people like him. Ditto for Nyquist though he deserves very little criticism, not that I would expect him to get any.

Tatar is 10 years younger and has about 400 less games of NHL experience. He just played in his first full NHL season and had a very impressive showing. Tatar is only going to get better where Frazen is only going to get worse. Tatar is faster, more elusive, and has game-breaking abilities where Franzen is only useful if someone gets him the puck on the power play. If Franzen isn't scoring he's pretty much useless.

People expecting Frazen to score 35-40 goals next year (or at any point the rest of his career) are crazy. He scored 34 goals one time five years ago. The only reason he's even in the lineup is because of his size. At this point the only hope Franzen has is that he can play 60 games and notch 20 goals. I'm all for buying him out if there is a plan to replace him.
 

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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franzen being gone clears pretty good cap space longterm and a top 6 spot that could go to someone who actually helps us win today and tomorrow

tootoo being bought out clears 2 million? in cap space for 9 months and an ahl forward

those compliance buyouts should only be used for actual bad long term contracts, your bryzgalovs(sp) and lecavaliersm not your 1 year/2million dollar players

Cap space won't be an issue from now on. And it shouldn't have been an issue this year at all if we hadn't signed ~3-4 useless players that we could have just replaced with kids that cost us under a mill a piece. We have the cap space to get 2 legit top players. I might advocate buying out Franzen, but it has more to do with a roster spot than the cap room. When he's on his cold streaks he is just completely invisible. And his streaks last a long time.
 

silkyjohnson50

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^ that's my thoughts...

Even if the cap space didn't really have an impact, him being penciled into the top 6 and top PP unit does.

Lol why was Tatar even brought up?! Agenda much.

And for all the talk about Franzen's defensive game, has their been a Red Wing with a worse history of failing to clear pucks in huge moments of huge games?
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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And in a few years when the cap is $90 million or above, his $3.9 million cap hit isn't going to matter that much.

But just for fun, who is this top-six dynamo who is going to help us next year?

i have no idea to be honest though i suspect their are players aavailable league wide who contribute in more ways then franzen does

i think his contract is the type that you buyout if given a mulligan

now, i dont see the cap jumping to 90 million anytime soon. i would be surprised if you see much past 80 million by the turn of the decade
 

Frk It

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Jul 27, 2010
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I have a bad feeling we are going to go into next season with pretty much the same quality defensive corps...

Something like

Kronwall-Ericsson
Dekeyser-Smith
Kindl-Bargain bin FA
Lash

or

Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-Ericsson
Kindl-Ouellet/Lash

Feel like Holland will opt for an old crusty turd like Sami Salo, after kicking the tires on Niskanen and Boyle.
 

Claypool

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I have a bad feeling we are going to go into next season with pretty much the same quality defensive corps...

This team needs a right-handed, power-play defenseman that can move the puck up quickly to the forwards. I'd trade Smith right now while he still has value and sign Boyle to a two-year deal. The remaining two spots can be filled with kids.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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This team needs a right-handed, power-play defenseman that can move the puck up quickly to the forwards. I'd trade Smith right now while he still has value and sign Boyle to a two-year deal. The remaining two spots can be filled with kids.

I agree, and I would be fine with that.

Kronwall-Green/Buff
Dekeyser-Boyle
Ericsson-Ouellet/Marchenko

Say what you want, but that defense would move the puck. And we would have the puck a whole lot more, and have to worry about defense a whole lot less.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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I have a bad feeling we are going to go into next season with pretty much the same quality defensive corps...

Something like

Kronwall-Ericsson
Dekeyser-Smith
Kindl-Bargain bin FA
Lash

or

Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-Ericsson
Kindl-Ouellet/Lash

Feel like Holland will opt for an old crusty turd like Sami Salo, after kicking the tires on Niskanen and Boyle.

Boyle at this stage is pretty much a turd as well, just saying ask a Sharks fan. My brother is a season ticket holder for them, still roots for us first but needs his hockey fix out in the Bay Area. All he talks about in terms of what was startling this year is how bad Boyle had gotten. That probably around 20 games (sells a lot of the weekday games) of witnessing that in person and I don't think talent evaluation is one of his strong suits as a fan, so if he is noticing this and to be fair I have seen a lot of it whenever I have watched him this year and it is just true.

I realize his offensive numbers aren't totally in the crapper, but I hope we kick the tires on Stralman before we talk to Boyle.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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Boyle at this stage is pretty much a turd as well, just saying ask a Sharks fan. My brother is a season ticket holder for them, still roots for us first but needs his hockey fix out in the Bay Area. All he talks about in terms of what was startling this year is how bad Boyle had gotten. That probably around 20 games (sells a lot of the weekday games) of witnessing that in person and I don't think talent evaluation is one of his strong suits as a fan, so if he is noticing this and to be fair I have seen a lot of it whenever I have watched him this year and it is just true.

I realize his offensive numbers aren't totally in the crapper, but I hope we kick the tires on Stralman before we talk to Boyle.

Salo was bad, and had worse production, and is more washed up.

40 year old cheap RHD. Sounds like a Holland off-season staple.

We disagree on Boyle, but we will see next season what happens.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Salo was bad, and had worse production, and is more washed up.

40 year old cheap RHD. Sounds like a Holland off-season staple.

We disagree on Boyle, but we will see next season what happens.

Boyle seems kind of obvious as a target. I do hope the fact he basically got told to pound sand by San Jose lights a fire under his *** in the event he shows up here. I am seeing more a diminish in skills, but all I can hope is the player from this past season doesn't show up.

Not that he deserved to go, but I am wondering in terms of we all assume we will chase Boyle hard but he did completely fall out of the Olympic picture and almost immediately in terms of Team Canada. Given our influence on that process, I am not sure we are as high on him as some believe. I guess we will find out, I just am not going to be super happy if that is who we get, we can do a lot worse depending on what the term length and salary is though.

I am curious what Babcock's current state of flux will do in terms of our pursuit of some guys. Boyle clearly wants a multi-year deal, but does he want one if Babcock is leaving here... Something to think about that we are not discussing, it could impact our UFA pursuits.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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Boyle seems kind of obvious as a target. I do hope the fact he basically got told to pound sand by San Jose lights a fire under his *** in the event he shows up here. I am seeing more a diminish in skills, but all I can hope is the player from this past season doesn't show up.

Not that he deserved to go, but I am wondering in terms of we all assume we will chase Boyle hard but he did completely fall out of the Olympic picture and almost immediately in terms of Team Canada. Given our influence on that process, I am not sure we are as high on him as some believe. I guess we will find out, I just am not going to be super happy if that is who we get, we can do a lot worse depending on what the term length and salary is though.

I am curious what Babcock's current state of flux will do in terms of our pursuit of some guys. Boyle clearly wants a multi-year deal, but does he want one if Babcock is leaving here... Something to think about that we are not discussing, it could impact our UFA pursuits.

It depends on what role you think Boyle will come in here and play.

I don't see him coming and playing top mins here, like he did in SJ last season. So I'm not as worried about it.

If you think the D will be structured this way

Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-X
Ericsson-X

Then I think we are fine bringing in Boyle and putting him in one of those two holes. Play him with a reliable partner (E or Dekeyser) give him some sheltered ES minutes, and just let him do his thing on the 1st PP unit.

His shot is still better than any D on our team IMO. He has slowed down yes, but still put up top 20 #'s on the PP this season among the league's d-men. We need some offensive talent, we are deprived of that on the blue line.

Stralman is a safe pick-up, sure. But we already have guys that can play a lot of ES minutes and put up 13 points. I'd like to get more of a difference maker. Even if there's a risk it could bite us.
 

Claypool

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Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-X
Ericsson-X

Still don't understand what Smith has done in his career to deserve the top pairing role on the team. The guy is a liability on the ice and isn't showing signs of improving greatly. At best he's a #4 because of his skating and passing ability, but he also needs sheltered minutes until proven otherwise. At 25 I expected him to be running the power play and be putting up 40-50 points a season. He's not everywhere close to that. Big E is still a much better player. Dekeyser after one season is already better than Smith.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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Still don't understand what Smith has done in his career to deserve the top pairing role on the team. The guy is a liability on the ice and isn't showing signs of improving greatly. At best he's a #4 because of his skating and passing ability, but he also needs sheltered minutes until proven otherwise. At 25 I expected him to be running the power play and be putting up 40-50 points a season. He's not everywhere close to that. Big E is still a much better player. Dekeyser after one season is already better than Smith.

If his coach let him (play on the PP) I think he would be 25 and putting up 40 pts. No one scores 40-50 pts without PP time, and Babcock inexplicably will not play Smith there. Hardly Smith's fault at all.

#'s and all that are just a formality to me. I think ideally we would roll our 3 D lines evenly minute-wise.

I think Dekeyser is better than Smith too, but I think Smith, for whatever reason plays well with Kronwall. Actually, I think the two do well together. That leaves us with the option for depth, to potentially play Kronwall, DK, and Big E on 3 separate pairs.

Line combo's aren't just stacking your most talented players on the top pairing or lines. You want balance. You want depth. You want chemistry.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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Also....

I was just giving an example

Even if you did

Kronwall-Big E
Dekeyser-X
X-Smith

My point was.... You don't have to put Boyle on the top pair, and you can give him sheltered ES mins, and a reliable partner to play with (Dekesyer) on a 2nd or 3rd pair.

I'm not even saying I only think Smith should be on the top pair. I don't care. I just want a defense top to bottom that is balanced, and comprised of players that play well together.
 

ap3x

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If his coach let him (play on the PP) I think he would be 25 and putting up 40 pts. No one scores 40-50 pts without PP time, and Babcock inexplicably will not play Smith there. Hardly Smith's fault at all.

#'s and all that are just a formality to me. I think ideally we would roll our 3 D lines evenly minute-wise.

I think Dekeyser is better than Smith too, but I think Smith, for whatever reason plays well with Kronwall. Actually, I think the two do well together. That leaves us with the option for depth, to potentially play Kronwall, DK, and Big E on 3 separate pairs.

Line combo's aren't just stacking your most talented players on the top pairing or lines. You want balance. You want depth. You want chemistry.

This. Let's just wait, if he's getting his chance on the PP.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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I really hope boyle signs elsewhere

he isnt what we think he is and he wont provide what we think he will

if we're transitioning from old to young then lets get on with it, make a trade from our depth

if it takes smith or ericsson or tatar or ouellet or our 1st rounder lets make the move that makes us better longterm as well as immediately
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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I really hope boyle signs elsewhere

he isnt what we think he is and he wont provide what we think he will

if we're transitioning from old to young then lets get on with it, make a trade from our depth

if it takes smith or ericsson or tatar or ouellet or our 1st rounder lets make the move that makes us better longterm as well as immediately

The odds of us pulling off a trade for what you want are incredibly unlikely.

Boyle hitting free agency is a sure thing.

I think Boyle would come here and put up 35-45 pts. I don't see anyone else we could plug in internally that could match that. For better or worse.

Look I would love a trade too, but what are the odds Holland pulls off a trade before opening night for a young stud top 4 D?
 

14ari13

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^ that's my thoughts...

Even if the cap space didn't really have an impact, him being penciled into the top 6 and top PP unit does.

Lol why was Tatar even brought up?! Agenda much.

And for all the talk about Franzen's defensive game,has their been a Red Wing with a worse history of failing to clear pucks in huge moments of huge games?

Indeed. I really want to hear from other posters about it. Has there been anyone worse than Franzen?
I think Babcock really has to think about putting Franzen on the ice with 5 min to go.
But I am fine with his deal and production.
Hossa ( and Kane, Nash, Crosby...) tearing up playoffs.
 

SoupNazi

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Feb 6, 2010
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Look I would love a trade too, but what are the odds Holland pulls off a trade before opening night for a young stud top 4 D?

Slim to none considering there really aren't any of those available.
 

Crymson

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i have no idea to be honest though i suspect their are players aavailable league wide who contribute in more ways then franzen does

And there's the typical "grass is greener" comment. You want him to be replaced, but you have no idea who is available to replace him, or how that individual might be acquired, or what that individual might cost to acquire. I don't mean to be rude, but in the future you might try considering the entire picture rather than just half of it, especially so if it's in the context of a discussion.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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The odds of us pulling off a trade for what you want are incredibly unlikely.

Boyle hitting free agency is a sure thing.

I think Boyle would come here and put up 35-45 pts. I don't see anyone else we could plug in internally that could match that. For better or worse.

Look I would love a trade too, but what are the odds Holland pulls off a trade before opening night for a young stud top 4 D?

at some point we may need to stop thinking that way, that free agency is the answer

whether we know of a young top 4 blueliner who is available is hardly the point as we dont actually know who is available(you have to be the one making those contacts to really know that), but we do have the assets and more importantly the need to be going shopping

you're right though. holland rarely makes impactful moves

i guess i dont believe the DRW are a dan boyle and a healthier datsyuk or zetterberg away from winning the cup in the next two years(assuming boyle is signed for two years) and so if you're not trying to win the cup immediately then its best to build to win down the line while also improving right now

i guess i just foresee signing dan boyle for two years/10 million and losing again in the first rd after struggling to make it in and all the while not solving the problem and worse doing so while taking away playing time from a youngster
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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And there's the typical "grass is greener" comment. You want him to be replaced, but you have no idea who is available to replace him, or how that individual might be acquired, or what that individual might cost to acquire. I don't mean to be rude, but in the future you might try considering the entire picture rather than just half of it, especially so if it's in the context of a discussion.

i think its awfully smug of hf board posters to assume they know every single player league wide who is available, as though they themselves have contacted all 30 NHL GM's

if you havent in fact done that, then you have absolutely no idea who is/is not available

i do believe their are players who contribute in more ways than franzen, that is not a grass is always greener approach, its just fact whether you like it or not. To assume their arent is pretty ignorant.
 

SoupNazi

Serenity now. Insanity later.
Feb 6, 2010
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i do believe their are players who contribute in more ways than franzen, that is not a grass is always greener approach, its just fact whether you like it or not. To assume their arent is pretty ignorant.

So you know for a fact that there are players who contribute in more ways than Franzen, but you can't name a single one?

Okay...
 

SoupNazi

Serenity now. Insanity later.
Feb 6, 2010
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This thread is at 1,000, and we've got a bunch of other threads discussing the offseason opened.

Closed.
 
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