Ken Holland's pursuit to upgrade the blue line

[PullHard]

I agree with you guys that moving Helm for Petry+ isn't a great move for the Wings in terms of value (depends on what that + is obviously. Edmonton's 1st, or something else ridiculous, would be a different story.)

I only used him as an example because 1) he is a C, something I believe the Oilers would really be interested in, and 2) Helm seems the most expendable of our "sexy" Cs, even if that means he still isn't very expendable at all. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Sheahan all are too important at this point. Guys like Weiss, Glendening, and Andersson have little to no trade value, IMO. Glendening and Andersson would most likely clear waivers, and Weiss is looking more like a cap anchor than a top 6 C at the moment.

I agree, though. If the team were to move Helm, I'd hope it would be the Wings packaging him up with stuff to get a real difference maker on defense, rather than the Wings trading Helm for pieces.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

If we have to sacrifice Helm in order to prevent Holland from gutting the team's group of young players, I'm all for it.

 

[detredWINgs]

I suppose I don't understand why EDM wants to dump Petry.

If he is good, they would want to keep him.
Obviously he must not be good enough to make the oilers. (or they unwisely dont want solid defensive D?).

I do not know much about this player, but if the Oilers want to dump him, why should we take him?

Seems to me the opposite trade should occur:

We give them Kindl and say : Thanks. They get more D depth, we get rid of the contract

Honestly, I don't understand it either. During the lockout year, Petry had his coming out party and he was getting tons of hype for being a shot-blocking, hitting machine, along with Smid. If anyone else remembers, when Smid was an impending UFA, everyone was speculating that he would get $5M if he hit the market. Then when Edmonton re-signed him for $3.5M everyone thought it was a great deal. Next thing you know, Smid is being shipped out for a career AHLer and a 3rd string goaltender before he can even get to prove himself worthy of his new deal in Edmonton. Now it seems Petry is getting the same treatment.

Petry is at worst a #4/5 defenseman on a decent team. He's an enhanced, right-handed version of Quincey, IMO, with some probable room to improve as he's only 26 and has squandered his career in Edmonton. And really, it only makes sense for Detroit if they were to bring in Petry and get rid of Quincey, either in the same deal or a separate one.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Petry shouldn't cost that much, the Oilers are run by the worst management in hockey and probably all of sports. 2nd and a B caliber prospect should get it done.

 

[detredWINgs]

If we have to sacrifice Helm in order to prevent Holland from gutting the team's group of young players, I'm all for it.

Since when do we we have to sacrifice Helm in order to keep Holland from gutting the team of young players?

 

[PullHard]

Petry shouldn't cost that much, the Oilers are run by the worst management in hockey and probably all of sports. 2nd and a B caliber prospect should get it done.

There's some gut feeling I have that if/ when he gets traded it will be for a return along the lines of Kindl + 2nd, or Kindl + 3rd. Comparatively, like other teams trading their #6/7 + a 3rd rounder in 2015 for him.

Petry doesn't have enough of a resume to warrant too much more than that, especially as an impending UFA.

But after what happened at the deadline last year, I don't know.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Since when do we we have to sacrifice Helm in order to keep Holland from gutting the team of young players?

Myers. Larkin, 2015 1st, and more.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Maybe I'm out to lunch, but I want Campbell.

I'd offer up:

Kindl
Quincey
2016 1st
Frk

Florida takes on 2 contracts, 1 with the same length, the other is younger and has one more year. They also get a 1st and a prospect.

This allows the Cats to have better defensive depth as it pushes a defenseman down, and also allows flexability within the roster.

All this for a d-man thats 35 with 7.1 for this year and next.

 

[BinCookin]

Honestly, I don't understand it either. During the lockout year, Petry had his coming out party and he was getting tons of hype for being a shot-blocking, hitting machine, along with Smid. If anyone else remembers, when Smid was an impending UFA, everyone was speculating that he would get $5M if he hit the market. Then when Edmonton re-signed him for $3.5M everyone thought it was a great deal. Next thing you know, Smid is being shipped out for a career AHLer and a 3rd string goaltender before he can even get to prove himself worthy of his new deal in Edmonton. Now it seems Petry is getting the same treatment.

Petry is at worst a #4/5 defenseman on a decent team. He's an enhanced, right-handed version of Quincey, IMO, with some probable room to improve as he's only 26 and has squandered his career in Edmonton. And really, it only makes sense for Detroit if they were to bring in Petry and get rid of Quincey, either in the same deal or a separate one.

Yes Smid seemed like a weird move as well. I def heard more about Smid. Also I think someone like Andersson would have value for EDM considering their Center Depth.

I have to imagine they are ACTIVELY trying to play all their "high skill" young guys, at the expense of veterans.

Its almost like someone from HFboards is running the team (Prospects and young players = Good)

 

[detredWINgs]

Myers. Larkin, 2015 1st, and more.

Uh, when did this trade happen?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Uh, when did this trade happen?

It hasn't, but that's the latest rumor. Larkin+. Comes from Bob McKenzie.

 

[detredWINgs]

It hasn't, but that's the latest rumor. Larkin+. Comes from Bob McKenzie.

That's who Buffalo is asking for, not who Holland has on the table.

 

[BinCookin]

Myers. Larkin, 2015 1st, and more.

Mmmm, Don't like it. thats really 2 1sts (Larking picked 15th and 2015 first will likely be an even better player than larkin if we are 10-20)

The more would just be salary i expect (Kindl)..

Still that would be too much I think.

 

[BinCookin]

That's who Buffalo is asking for, not who Holland has on the table.

Ah that makes more sense. Then No No No.

1 of those guys, plus a lower prospect maybe. But still I just don't feel like we should be trading away any young players (unless they are one or two of our D prospects, since we will NEED to) ... cant keep them all.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

That's who Buffalo is asking for, not who Holland has on the table.

Right, but I'm worried Holland will eventually pay the price in order to attempt to keep Babcock around. He's building an ugly track history of desperation moves.

 

[Frk It]

There's some gut feeling I have that if/ when he gets traded it will be for a return along the lines of Kindl + 2nd, or Kindl + 3rd. Comparatively, like other teams trading their #6/7 + a 3rd rounder in 2015 for him.

Petry doesn't have enough of a resume to warrant too much more than that, especially as an impending UFA.

But after what happened at the deadline last year, I don't know.

Can't remember where I saw it... but speculation is that Edmonton will first try to include Petry in a package to try to return a skilled center (Plan A), and then if that doesn't work they would just unload him for a mid-round pick (Plan B).

 

[PullHard]

Can't remember where I saw it... but speculation is that Edmonton will first try to include Petry in a package to try to return a skilled center (Plan A), and then if that doesn't work they would just unload him for a mid-round pick (Plan B).

Sounds pretty straightforward and makes sense. I'd be fine with Kindl + 3rd round pick. Just upgrading Kindl for a more consistent guy who can go into corners and do all of those little things with at least some success would be amazing.

 

[Frk It]

Sounds pretty straightforward and makes sense. I'd be fine with Kindl + 3rd round pick. Just upgrading Kindl for a more consistent guy who can go into corners and do all of those little things with at least some success would be amazing.

Yeah, and with a right-handed shot to boot. Would be ideal. Seems very probable for us that it will happen, imo.

 

[PullHard]

Yeah, and with a right-handed shot to boot. Would be ideal. Seems very probable for us that it will happen, imo.

In a perfect world, after this hypothetical trade guys like Lashoff and Quincey are waived/ let walk ASAP and we start rotating in Ouellet, Jensen, Marchenko, etc.

But I'm getting way too ahead of myself.

 

[Frk It]

In a perfect world, after this hypothetical trade guys like Lashoff and Quincey are waived/ let walk ASAP and we start rotating in Ouellet, Jensen, Marchenko, etc.

But I'm getting way too ahead of myself.

Quincey is playing fine right now, and even if he starts stinking it up, I don't think KH would waive him regardless.

But ideally, I would like to work in at least one of those guys by year's end.

Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-Petry
Ouellet-Ericsson

could give 3 pretty nice pairs...

or

Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-Ericsson
Quincey-Petry

is still better than what we have.

 

[PullHard]

Quincey is playing fine right now, and even if he starts stinking it up, I don't think KH would waive him regardless.

But ideally, I would like to work in at least one of those guys by year's end.

Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-Petry
Ouellet-Ericsson

could give 3 pretty nice pairs...

or

Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-Ericsson
Quincey-Petry

is still better than what we have.

Yeah, sorry, by "let walk" I meant not re-signing him. Lashoff was the one who would be waived (and also let walk)

I like those pairs a lot, seems like a lot tighter of a unit than what we've got now. And with guys like Jensen, Backman, Marchenko, Sproul, etc. knocking on the door it should only improve.

 

[ricky0034]

Yeah, sorry, by "let walk" I meant not re-signing him. Lashoff was the one who would be waived (and also let walk)

I like those pairs a lot, seems like a lot tighter of a unit than what we've got now. And with guys like Jensen, Backman, Marchenko, Sproul, etc. knocking on the door it should only improve.

but that's the thing

if you trade for Petry how can those guys knock on the door? there isn't any door

 

[Frk It]

but that's the thing

if you trade for Petry how can those guys knock on the door? there isn't any door

Realistically, Quincey being signed closed that door.

But Quincey is playing well, so he deserves to stay in the line-up for now.

Trading for Petry is an upgrade over Kindl, and gives Babcock a righty that he likes, so it would be worthwhile.

Keep in mind that one of the 6 regular's is likely to get hurt, so the kids will get a chance at some point. If they do well they can stay in the line-up. It's not ideal, and I would have preferred to just forego signing Q altogether, but opportunities will come up.

 

[ricky0034]

Realistically, Quincey being signed closed that door.

But Quincey is playing well, so he deserves to stay in the line-up for now.

Trading for Petry is an upgrade over Kindl, and gives Babcock a righty that he likes, so it would be worthwhile.

Keep in mind that one of the 6 regular's is likely to get hurt, so the kids will get a chance at some point. If they do well they can stay in the line-up. It's not ideal, and I would have preferred to just forego signing Q altogether, but opportunities will come up.

Quincey being signed closed it for a couple years yeah

but Petry's 26 and a Michigan guy if the Wings traded for him he'd be around for a decade and gives us 5 guys that aren't going anywhere anytime soon

Petry may be an improvement over what we have right now but him taking up a roster spot for a decade? is that really a good idea?

 

[PullHard]

but that's the thing

if you trade for Petry how can those guys knock on the door? there isn't any door

Well, it'd be the same as just sitting on Kindl.

That is why I am mentioning the "let walk" thing. Lashoff needs to go ASAP no matter what, trade or no trade.

Also need to make hard decisions on Quincey and which D prospects are going to be guys who have legitimate futures and which don't, and maybe make some trades from there.

Or we could just bring back everyone and waive our prospects