Ken Holland's pursuit to upgrade the blue line

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/600361

Dreger keeps tweeting about our trade talks with Buffalo over Tyler Myers, stating that Mantha was mentioned in a potential package over the summer, which we knew, but the deal was shot down because they wanted Mantha. So let us discuss as Murray and Holland keep discussing.

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[WingedWheel1987]

Well they had 12 SOG tonight. Gotta bring that down to single digits. It would be wise to move Myers.

 

[Flowah]

The Sabres' asking price was reportedly three players and a first-round draft pick.

Eeeep. And you know they're not asking for Callahan and Ferraro.

That's mighty high for the Wings, considering that we have a number of defensemen ready to break into the NHL.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

One would assume if rumors persist their asking price has come down a little. Mantha is a non-starter for the Wings. I am not all that hot for Myers unless the package is reasonable and I don't think it has got there yet. Though my guess is the Sabres have moved off their Mantha demand, for what other pieces I don't know, but that has to be a reason they aren't hearing a dial tone on the Wings end if this rumor is correct.

 

[Electric Eric]

Don't want him, don't need him. Let some other team overpay for a 24 year old project.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

IMO Nyquist and Dekeyser are also on the untouchable list along with Mantha so I'd imagine if a deal would be had it would center around someone like Sheahan, Tats, or Smith+ for Myers.

I think Myers still has a ton of potential but if that's the price I do not want.

 

[Flowah]

Sheahan should be pretty damn close to that untouchable list.

 

[Winger98]

IMO Nyquist and Dekeyser are also on the untouchable list along with Mantha so I'd imagine if a deal would be had it would center around someone like Sheahan, Tats, or Smith+ for Myers.

I think Myers still has a ton of potential but if that's the price I do not want.

I'd be surprised if they could pull three NHLers like that in a deal, not to mention adding to it. I'd look at making Jurco and Smith the centerpieces of the deal, along with a high pick.

I've never really seen where there is a deal to be made, though. Myers is still young, still with massive upside (I think he's a bit underrated as it is), and it's unlikely they'll get anything close back in terms of one for one value - instead, they'd have to hope to get lucky with a package. And if history tells us anything, those package deals rarely work out that great for the guys giving up the single best player in the deal.

edit: about Dekeyser being untouchable, I don't think so if we're looking at a deal for a guy like Myers. Yeah, we'd be losing a big piece of our blueline, but we'd be getting one back, too. Same reason Smith is easier to include in this deal than he is in some others.

 

[Claypool]

People are drooling over his potential but I don't see it. If he was such a great player Buffalo wouldn't be so interested in moving him. The Wings don't need him at this point. There's too many question marks with Myers that it's not worth the risk. I'd rather Detroit continue to groom it's young defensive core.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

I'd be surprised if they could pull three NHLers like that in a deal, not to mention adding to it. I'd look at making Jurco and Smith the centerpieces of the deal, along with a high pick.

I've never really seen where there is a deal to be made, though. Myers is still young, still with massive upside (I think he's a bit underrated as it is), and it's unlikely they'll get anything close back in terms of one for one value - instead, they'd have to hope to get lucky with a package. And if history tells us anything, those package deals rarely work out that great for the guys giving up the single best player in the deal.

edit: about Dekeyser being untouchable, I don't think so if we're looking at a deal for a guy like Myers. Yeah, we'd be losing a big piece of our blueline, but we'd be getting one back, too. Same reason Smith is easier to include in this deal than he is in some others.

Yeah I was saying one of them not all three, I'd march on JLA with a pitchfork if Holland traded all three for Myers

As for Dekeyser you could be right, it's mostly just my gut feeling but just the way managements talks about him and how he made the jump so easily makes me think they view him as a untouchable.

 

[jaster]

I can't see the Wings moving DeKeyser in a deal for Myers. Doesn't make enough sense. Yeah, Myers has higher upside, but DeKeyser, in addition to his own youth and talent, is a known quantity. The Wings know exactly what they have in him in terms of how he fits on the team. Not that Myers would be another Weiss, but, like Weiss was, Myers is an unknown quantity, and there is risk there. That risk, imo, goes a long way in negating whatever advantage Myers has over DeKeyser in talent/upside.

I think Smith would be the far more likely candidate to go the other way.

I'd bet our untouchables in a deal for Myers are: Our captains, Mantha, Nyquist, DeKeyser, Ericsson (only because of the strong similarities in size and role), and probably Sheahan.

 

[Frk It]

We have the pieces to make this trade happen, but I don't see KH parting with them, so I don't see this happening.

Think that Mantha and Sheahan will be held onto, which I am all on board for.

I wonder if Smith is a piece they try to work into deals? Or would be willing to part with?

If Smith on the PP is not in the plans in Detroit, then I am very much in favor of trying to ship him out... because I think his value is still high now, and I think he doesn't have any value as an ES-only defenseman for this team.

 

[Claypool]

We have the pieces to make this trade happen, but I don't see KH parting with them, so I don't see this happening.

Think that Mantha and Sheahan will be held onto, which I am all on board for.

I wonder if Smith is a piece they try to work into deals? Or would be willing to part with?

If Smith on the PP is not in the plans in Detroit, then I am very much in favor of trying to ship him out... because I think his value is still high now, and I think he doesn't have any value as an ES-only defenseman for this team.

I'm not exactly the biggest Smith fan, but he's the only young-ish defenseman they have that's actually playing in the NHL. Once we know what they have in Sproul, Ouellet, Backman, Marchenko, and Jensen, Smith can become expendable. I don't think his value is all that high that it's worth moving him. The clock is ticking on him, though.

 

[jaster]

I'm not exactly the biggest Smith fan, but he's the only young-ish defenseman they have that's actually playing in the NHL. Once we know what they have in Sproul, Ouellet, Backman, Marchenko, and Jensen, Smith can become expendable. I don't think his value is all that high that it's worth moving him. The clock is ticking on him, though.

DeKeyser?

 

[Claypool]

DeKeyser?

My bad. Sorry, Danny.

 

[Winger98]

My bad. Sorry, Danny.

he only plays like a ten year vet. He's still got some actual aging to catch up to it, though.

Yeah I was saying one of them not all three, I'd march on JLA with a pitchfork if Holland traded all three for Myers

As for Dekeyser you could be right, it's mostly just my gut feeling but just the way managements talks about him and how he made the jump so easily makes me think they view him as a untouchable.

I don't think they'd want to deal DK, either. I agree with Jaster that I think Smith is the one more likely to go, but to get a young, top pairing quality right-handed D? That would look very nice to the Wings. And they would have to look at it and think that whichever one stays would end up as Myers' partner.

Something else to consider is what Buffalo might ask for around each player. If Buffalo really wants one over the other, maybe we could give up significantly less in other assets.

While DK is probably not Detroit's first choice to move, I don't think they'd be entirely closed to it. Probably say that about a lot of guys, though.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Sheahan should be pretty damn close to that untouchable list.

That he should.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I guess Holland and Babcock still want a puck moving RHD So I guess that Holland could be revisiting Myers and hoping that Murray has lowered his asking price.

 

[The Zermanator]

Tatar, Smith, and a 2nd is a reasonable offer to me. And that would be awesome for this team. That and a Kindl trade to bring up Ouellet would mean:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Jurco-Sheahan-Pulkkinen/Mantha
Nestrasil/Abdelkader-Weiss-Franzen
Miller-Andersson-Glendening
Cleary

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Myers
Quincey-Ouellet

That team is a cup contender. And so many possible line combinations.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

If we trade Smith/Dekeyser for Myers, other than a righty, what have we gained? We don't markedly improve either the quality or the depth. Smith is the only lefty we've got that's genuinely comfortable on the right, so we're still weak on that side if we trade him. And at this point, is Myers a qualitative improvement on Dekeyser?

OTOH, if we could get him for forwards/prospects/picks we can roll

Kronwall - Myers
Dekeyser - Smith
Quincey - Ericsson

 

[Frk It]

Tatar, Smith, and a 2nd is a reasonable offer to me. And that would be awesome for this team. That and a Kindl trade to bring up Ouellet would mean:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Jurco-Sheahan-Pulkkinen/Mantha
Nestrasil/Abdelkader-Weiss-Franzen
Miller-Andersson-Glendening
Cleary

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Myers
Quincey-Ouellet

That team is a cup contender. And so many possible line combinations.

Pulkkinen has looked underwhelming so far to me against NHL opposition, I would be uncomfortable just tossing him in our top 6. Personally.

On paper this team might appear better. Not sure how much it would be though. Depends on how many goals and points we are getting from Myers. Think Buffalo would be getting a 20 goal scorer and 35-40 pt d man out of this deal, assuming they play Smith on the PP, unlike us.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Losing Tatar would have a big impact on the ability to roll 3 lines that can create offense. The Kid line likely wouldn't be nearly the same. And I totally agree with FrkIt. From what I've seen of Pulkkinen at the NHL level, I don't see that level of impact, line driving type of player.

 

[benusmc]

Unless they are willing to take our garbage: Kindl, Lashoff, Weiss(b/c he's healthy scratch). Or willing to take some maybes Pulkinen, Nestrail...Otherwise I hope we steer clear.

edit: To comments above, to me Tatar is as untouchable as Jurco, Sheahan, Nyquist, Mantha... Like I said unless you're willing to take our eh players or potential good players, then Buffalo can go **** themselves. Also seems like to much potential for a trade like that to blow up in our faces, with in our division, to do it.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Not willing to give up our kids on the roster at this point. We don't know what we've got in them yet, and I have a feeling that trading Tatar, Jurco or Sheahan might come back to bite us in the ass. Obviously Mantha is off the table.

I'd do something like Tatar + Jensen + 1st, but that'd be the absolute max I'd go. It would severely affect the kid line, though, and I'm not sure it'd make our team better for this year.

If Buffalo would take something like Pulkkinen + Backman + Jensen + 1st, I'd be down. But I doubt they take our B prospects, so this trade (hopefully, unless Holland is stupid again) isn't happening.

If we did pull off non-roster F prospect + 2 d prospects + 1st type of deal, though, that would give us a D corps of

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Myers
Smith-Quincey
Ouellet

Which is a cup contending group of D

 

[Adityase]

I start with Ericsson. He's been overvalued here for so long because he doesn't screw up as often as other guys. Sorry, that doesn't mean you belong in the top 4 for an actual contender. Think about it. On our 08 team the current version of Ericsson would be no higher than 5th. Plus Buffalo gets a competent replacement for Myers and from day 1. I could part with Smith as well since Myers would fill that role.

Next, Oullet. He's our top defensive prospect and NHL ready (beyond NHL "ready" really). Think it's more than fair if we're keeping DeKeyeser and Smith. Plus with Marchenko, Backman, Jensen, and Sproul I think we're okay there. I could part with a second d-man from this group with the exception of Sproul.

On offense Sheahan's untouchable because of the combo of our weak center prospect depth at his level, his size, his 2 way-game. Nyquist is untouchable unless we're getting a top tier D-man back. This leaves Tatar, Jurco and Nestrasil on the main club as offensive prospects to trade as well as all of the guys in the minors... I think Tatar has creativity and intangibles on his side so I think 1 of Jurco or Nestrasil would be in on the deal. Nesty has no trade value so it wouldn't surprise me if Jurco is sent down when Dats gets back, Nesty gets kid-line minutes to produce and then get packaged.

Ericsson (or Smith), Oullet, Nestrasil, Frk, 2015 2nd

Don't know if that's enough, but it's mostly about not trading guys who are clearly producing for Myers who doesn't have a consistent record.