Ken Holland

[Dotter]

What? He's at least a #3. And I'd say he's be about the perfect guy to pair with kronner, DDK, or any good LHD. He is great at moving the puck and was relatively cheap in FA.

After looking at it, he was a steal in FA at a $4.5 cap hit. He might be the most underrated dman in the league.

beyond ridiculous. based on what is he nice #4 or #5? green fits that much better than strålman.

i see no argument for him not being top pairing defenseman and i maintain he's been better than kronwall since 2014.

name 120 dman who are at least as good as him. heck, name 90.

there are only 2 dman (who were partners) since 2012 who have better goal differential than him and have played top4/top pair role. on shot differential, he's been even better, the best actually. best relative shot differential since 2012. if that guy is decent #4 or #5, we have maybe 2 NHL defenseman.

I wonder if that's because holland compared him to kindl? Not his finest hour, for sure.

strålman would be our best defenseman and would've been so for last year too.

To me, it doesn't matter if Stralman is a #4 or the next Lidstrom, he was never coming to Detroit regardless.

We can get all up in arms about it. We can talk about it til we are blue in the face. We can stomp our feet and cry like children... but the facts remain the same. Stralman, regardless of anything holy, was not ever coming to Detroit.

Stralman apparently had no interest in coming to Detroit. I'd also add that I don't think he's better than Kronwall now or at any time in the past, but he'd definitely be a good #2.

PD knows.

 

[SirloinUB]

To me, it doesn't matter if Stralman is a #4 or the next Lidstrom, he was never coming to Detroit regardless.

We can get all up in arms about it. We can talk about it til we are blue in the face. We can stomp our feet and cry like children... but the facts remain the same. Stralman, regardless of anything holy, was not ever coming to Detroit.





PD knows.

Exactly. And Suter wasn't going to come Detroit without Praise (who wasn't very interested in Detroit), Myers wasn't going to be traded here without A massive price going the other way (Larkin +), Bouwmeester was only available for two prized prospects, etc.

Everyone conviently ignores these real, tangible factors and instead focus on Hollands "failure". These dmen Everyone talks about are human being beings managed by other human beings. Believe it or not these Human beings have their own interests and motivation that lie outside of Holland's control. But hey, we need a dman so let's ignore reality and lynch Holland for our perceived short comings on things he can't control.

 

[redwingsphan]

To me, it doesn't matter if Stralman is a #4 or the next Lidstrom, he was never coming to Detroit regardless.

We can get all up in arms about it. We can talk about it til we are blue in the face. We can stomp our feet and cry like children... but the facts remain the same. Stralman, regardless of anything holy, was not ever coming to Detroit.





PD knows.

I wasn't really criticizing holland on the stralman thing, other than his comment comparing him to kindl. It may have been that he knew he wasn't going to get him and used it as a chance to pump up kindl. I just think it was way off base.

I know he has tried and I think it's good that he hasn't made some of the deals that were available. It was more of a what if we had green and stralman. Than a dammit holland why don't we have green and stralman.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If he'd make a good #2, what would that make Kronwall? Definitely not a number 1.

A solid #1, which is what he's been ever since Lidstrom retired.

Stralman is solid but he's never been asked to play the #1 role next to guys like Ericsson, Lashoff, White, Smith etc.
He's never cracked 40 points or 10 goals. Last season could easily be the best season he ever has in his career considering what he's done before and the pace he's on this year.
We can actually compare Stralman to what Kronwall did as a #3. When he was able to play a sheltered role behind great #1 d-man, he looked amazing and put up more points than Stralman. We don't know how Stralman would handle a #1 role but I doubt he'd do better than Kronner.

 

[Shaman464]

A solid #1, which is what he's been ever since Lidstrom retired.

Stralman is solid but he's never been asked to play the #1 role next to guys like Ericsson, Lashoff, White, Smith etc.
He's never cracked 40 points or 10 goals. Last season could easily be the best season he ever has in his career considering what he's done before and the pace he's on this year.
We can actually compare Stralman to what Kronwall did as a #3. When he was able to play a sheltered role behind great #1 d-man, he looked amazing and put up more points than Stralman. We don't know how Stralman would handle a #1 role but I doubt he'd do better than Kronner.

Kronwall at his peak was a borderline #1.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Kronwall at his peak was a borderline #1.

What is your definition of #1?

I think he was at least an above average #1 at his peak.

 

[InjuredChoker]

A solid #1, which is what he's been ever since Lidstrom retired.

Stralman is solid but he's never been asked to play the #1 role next to guys like Ericsson, Lashoff, White, Smith etc.
He's never cracked 40 points or 10 goals. Last season could easily be the best season he ever has in his career considering what he's done before and the pace he's on this year.
We can actually compare Stralman to what Kronwall did as a #3. When he was able to play a sheltered role behind great #1 d-man, he looked amazing and put up more points than Stralman. We don't know how Stralman would handle a #1 role but I doubt he'd do better than Kronner.

he has played with carle on top pairing when hedman has been out. and has done very well. better than kronwall the past two seasons. point or goal production isn't a good way to measure dman. vlasic produces even less and he's been better than kronwall even longer. wideman had over 50 points last season and wasn't even close to being top pair dman.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Kronwall at his peak was a borderline #1.

You would have to define #1 then. If you're a top 20-25 d-man in the league I think you're a #1. And Kronwall has definitely been that the last few years.

he has played with carle on top pairing when hedman has been out. and has done very well. better than kronwall the past two seasons. point or goal production isn't a good way to measure dman. vlasic produces even less and he's been better than kronwall even longer. wideman had over 50 points last season and wasn't even close to being top pair dman.

Thank you, finally someone that agrees with me that a #1 doesn't have to score 40-50 points. This is why I think Dekeyser can do just fine as a #1. 20-30 points, good defensive play. Even Ouellet may be able to grow into a Vlasic-type of player and be a legit #1 for us even if he only puts up offensive numbers on the level of Stralman, 10-20 points per season.

I'd argue that 20 games as a #1 on a dominant team isn't really enough of a sample size to say that Stralman would look good as the full-time #1 on a mediocre/bubble-team like the Wings though. Tampa was amazing offensively last season. Wings only good d-man offensively the last few years have been Kronwall, so on Detroit we would need Stralman to take a big responsibility offensively.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Thank you, finally someone that agrees with me that a #1 doesn't have to score 40-50 points. This is why I think Dekeyser can do just fine as a #1. 20-30 points, good defensive play. Even Ouellet may be able to grow into a Vlasic-type of player and be a legit #1 for us even if he only puts up offensive numbers on the level of Stralman, 10-20 points per season.

I'd argue that 20 games as a #1 on a dominant team isn't really enough of a sample size to say that Stralman would look good as the full-time #1 on a mediocre/bubble-team like the Wings though. Tampa was amazing offensively last season. Wings only good d-man offensively the last few years have been Kronwall, so on Detroit we would need Stralman to take a big responsibility offensively.

i don't think #1 needs to score 40-50 points to be #1D. but if he scores only 20-30, the defensive game has to be one of the best in the league. DD needs to develop there quite a bit. and develop better puck skills. if he can develop his puck skills to vlasic/strålman level and be top 5 defensive dman or so in the league, i think he'd be #1.