Keith Yandle Part II

[haveandare]

The one where defensive skill actually matters. Which, unfortunately for you, is the one where the games are played.

Having the puck, and therefore not letting the other team have the puck, is defense. It's also the kind of defense that wins cups, and has been for like half a decade.

 

[Richter Scale]

I'd buy the narrative that one is an offensive defenseman and one is a defensive defensemen if the difference between their shot suppression numbers wasn't marginal.

And I'm not talking about old Marc Staal who was a shot-suppression beast. I'm talking the last two years, close to 60 CA/60 without Boyle and over 60 without Stralman.

If by shot suppression you mean "not out there for shots against" then yes, there is a difference. But what you (and others) use as a proxy for shot suppression unfortunately doesn't really measure shot suppression. Cool story though.

 

[Richter Scale]

Having the puck, and therefore not letting the other team have the puck, is defense. It's also the kind of defense that wins cups, and has been for like half a decade.

Which is fair. I was responding to the comparison. Having the puck (or not, as the case may be) by virtue of your usage does not equal "shot suppression," "possession monster," and other laughable phrases that get thrown around here.

On the flip side, even the best teams don't have the puck for close to 50 % of the game. But yea, defensive skills are crap. I don't know why anyone would want a player who has them.

That said, I don't even think Yandle is bad, or bad for this team. I like the offense he adds on the back end. I just recognize that he can be a nightmare defensively. And think it is ridiculous to say there is no universe in which Staal could be considered better (or, as was implied, even of comparable value).

 

[DanielBrassard]

So if shot suppression doesnt measure the ability to suppress shots, what does?

 

[Richter Scale]

So if shot suppression doesnt measure the ability to suppress shots, what does?

I wasn't offering an alternative. The point was the stat doesn't necessarily measure what it is claimed it measures.

That you can't grasp what I was getting at is all I really need to know. Explain what is behind the stat you call shot suppression; let's see if we can't get to the bottom of this together.

 

[haveandare]

Which is fair. I was responding to the comparison. Having the puck (or not, as the case may be) by virtue of your usage does not equal "shot suppression," "possession monster," and other laughable phrases that get thrown around here.

On the flip side, even the best teams don't have the puck for close to 50 % of the game. But yea, defensive skills are crap. I don't know why anyone would want a player who has them.

That said, I don't even think Yandle is bad, or bad for this team. I like the offense he adds on the back end. I just recognize that he can be a nightmare defensively. And think it is ridiculous to say there is no universe in which Staal could be considered better (or, as was implied, even of comparable value).

Of course it equals shot suppression and solid possession play. When Yandle has the puck, or NYR has the puck because of Yandle's play, the other team isn't shooting, and NYR are literally possessing the puck.

Nobody is saying defensive skills are crap. The fact is Yandle is arguably top 10 at his position in terms of multiple offensive stats and Staal isn't top anything at his position in terms of any defensive stat.

And I don't think Yandle is a nightmare defensively. I think he's average in his own end but stellar in the offensive zone, so he appears "bad" on d. Also, again, having the puck is defense, so by being a top tier possession player, he is being an effective defensive player. Having the puck in the other team's end is more effective defense than having them wheel around in your end whether they score or not.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I wasn't offering an alternative. The point was the stat doesn't necessarily measure what it is claimed it measures.

That you can't grasp what I was getting at is all I really need to know. Explain what is behind the stat you call shot suppression; let's see if we can't get to the bottom of this.

Shot suppression is the ability to limit the amount of shots the other team generates through any means necessary. Whether its being good in the neutral zone, being good along the boards, having a good stick, reading plays, making a great outlet pass. Its not about how, its about did you do it. You can be gritty and be a good possession player, you can be soft and be a good possession player. Shot suppression measures exactly what it says it measures.

 

[DanielBrassard]

And what haveandare said is spot on. Who really cares if Staal might be better at defense, is he a better overall defenseman? That's what the focus should be

 

[Raspewtin]

The one where defensive skill actually matters. Which, unfortunately for you, is the one where the games are played.

The games are always played defensively huh?

Learn something new everyday.

 

[DanielBrassard]

The games are always played defensively huh?

Learn something new everyday.

Its funny because offense from defenseman is becoming more and more prominent.

 

[haveandare]

And what haveandare said is spot on. Who really cares if Staal might be better at defense, is he a better overall defenseman? That's what the focus should be

This exactly. Plus, being able to possess the puck is defense.

 

[Machinehead]

If by shot suppression you mean "not out there for shots against" then yes, there is a difference. But what you (and others) use as a proxy for shot suppression unfortunately doesn't really measure shot suppression. Cool story though.

So you're saying that counting how many shots the other team takes, ergo how many are not suppressed, doesn't measure shot suppression?

That's like saying points don't measure production.

 

[NYR2007]

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nhl-e...gers/rangers-cant-let-keith-yandle-slip-away/

good article on Yandle

i still feel the trade should have been made for a scoring winger

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nhl-e...gers/rangers-cant-let-keith-yandle-slip-away/

good article on Yandle

i still feel the trade should have been made for a scoring winger

This says it all really. Why should we trade him? If we trade him for a scoring winger, we are back in the hole with a putrid production from our defense. Yandle is vital to this team and I hope they re-sign him. He deserves to get 6.5m. He'll be our highest paid defenseman, but he'll be worth it.

 

[NYR Viper]

Yandle providing all of the offense from the back-end is MUCH harder to find than a 65-70 point winger.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yandle providing all of the offense from the back-end is MUCH harder to find than a 65-70 point winger.

I'd prefer to stick with Yandle who has already shown he can perform in New York, rather than going out on a limb and acquiring a guy who may be the next Jagr but might as well be the next St. Louis/Gomez/Dionne etc etc.

 

[Raspewtin]

Yandle was 2nd amongst all defensemen in AS p/60 from the TDL forward.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Got to find a way to keep him you don't give up that much for a year and a half then again Marty is similar in the fact two firsts and a former captain for a year and a half of playing time...

 

[Ori]

I hope he contribute better offensive this season - we need to patience with him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I hope he contribute better offensive this season - we need to patience with him.

Better offense? Since he joined the Rangers he leads all defensemen NYR in the regular season in goals and is tied in points with McDonagh. He has the highest P/60 average among D-men.

During the play offs, he tied Rick Nash for most assists on the team with 9 and was 4th overall on the team in points (no. 1 among D-men).

He has proven himself already. All he needs to do, is keep it up.

 

[Riche16]

If we let him go it'll be the worst feeling of depression I've had about this team since the dark ages.

What a waste

 

[NickyFotiu]

Looking like an all star this preseason.

 

[SkjeiPls]

CANT HANDLE THE YANDLE

s

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

This says it all really. Why should we trade him? If we trade him for a scoring winger, we are back in the hole with a putrid production from our defense. Yandle is vital to this team and I hope they re-sign him. He deserves to get 6.5m. He'll be our highest paid defenseman, but he'll be worth it.

He'll be asking for more. Likely much more. What then?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He'll be asking for more. Likely much more. What then?

6.5m is a 1.25m raise. Either we trade Staal or Yandle has to sign at 7m max