News Article: Karlsson trade is the gift that keeps on giving for rebuilding Senators

[swiftwin]

Dorion is a genius.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

If we get a top 15 pick, Tierney, Demelo, Balcers, Norris & (2x) 2nd rounders then that's a very good haul for a player that wasn't resigning with us. The Duchene deal to CBJ and Dzingel deal to CBJ were fine. It's the Hoffman and Stone deals that really sucked.

Assuming he wasn't resigning is a bad faith argument considering he really did want to stay in Ottawa, so you have to assume had we offered him something close to his SJ contract, he may well have stuck around. Whether he's worth that money long term is too early to tell.

That aside, if the 1st round pick ends up 20th or later, I still don't see how we win this trade. Tierney and Demelo are mediocre, Balcers and Norris' potential still have yet to be reached(and no one is singing their praises in the minors so far), and 2nd round picks rarely return elite players, if at all.

So sure, we have a bunch of assets, but if none of them end up being elite, or even top-6, how can you say we win the trade?

I'm not saying we definitely lost the trade, but to me it still depends on how high that 1st rounder ends up being. None of the other assets have looked amazing so far.

 

[supsens]

Assuming he wasn't resigning is a bad faith argument considering he really did want to stay in Ottawa, so you have to assume had we offered him something close to his SJ contract, he may well have stuck around. Whether he's worth that money long term is too early to tell.

That aside, if the 1st round pick ends up 20th or later, I still don't see how we win this trade. Tierney and Demelo are mediocre, Balcers and Norris' potential still have yet to be reached(and no one is singing their praises in the minors so far), and 2nd round picks rarely return elite players, if at all.

So sure, we have a bunch of assets, but if none of them end up being elite, or even top-6, how can you say we win the trade?

I'm not saying we definitely lost the trade, but to me it still depends on how high that 1st rounder ends up being. None of the other assets have looked amazing so far.

He was a pending UFA on the way out the door, there is no winning you get what you can and move on.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

He was a pending UFA on the way out the door, there is no winning you get what you can and move on.

And the Senators organization let it get that way.

Even the slightest commitment to try and spend and keep the team together a year ago (along with a speedy resolution of the Hoffman situation) would've kept both Stone and Karlsson in Ottawa.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

And the Senators organization let it get that way.

Even the slightest commitment to try and spend and keep the team together a year ago (along with a speedy resolution of the Hoffman situation) would've kept both Stone and Karlsson in Ottawa.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of answering yet another bad faith argument!

 

[supsens]

And the Senators organization let it get that way.

Even the slightest commitment to try and spend and keep the team together a year ago (along with a speedy resolution of the Hoffman situation) would've kept both Stone and Karlsson in Ottawa.

Meh the guy seemed to have no interest in sticking around. He even stated himself he didn’t speak to management, Dorion said they tried and never heard back, he is a big boy if he wanted to stay he would have put some effort into making it work.
The sens probably didn’t want to pay him either so I doubt either were all too concerned.

 

[JD1]

Thanks for saving me the trouble of answering yet another bad faith argument!

And your post above is in good faith?

 

[Sens]

Now the Sharks go on a 16-4 run and the article looks silly

 

[Upgrayedd]

It was a poorly handled situation compounded by a poor trade that we likely lose handedly unless we get extremely lucky and the pick lands top 3 and the player turns into an elite cornerstone, to argue anything else is disingenuous imo

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Meh the guy seemed to have no interest in sticking around. He even stated himself he didn’t speak to management, Dorion said they tried and never heard back, he is a big boy if he wanted to stay he would have put some effort into making it work.
The sens probably didn’t want to pay him either so I doubt either were all too concerned.

....by letting his agent do the negotiating, like most NHLers?

Good grief.

 

[GCK]

If we had a normal owner, definitely.

Hell no.

 

[SPF6ty9]

Dorion is a genius.

No wonder he has that girlfriend he's always talking about.

 

[GCK]

It was a poorly handled situation compounded by a poor trade that we likely lose handedly unless we get extremely lucky and the pick lands top 3 and the player turns into an elite cornerstone, to argue anything else is disingenuous imo

I am just happy he didn’t resign here. The trade is fine and could be great if it’s a top 12 pick.

 

[GCK]

And the Senators organization let it get that way.

Even the slightest commitment to try and spend and keep the team together a year ago (along with a speedy resolution of the Hoffman situation) would've kept both Stone and Karlsson in Ottawa.

I’m so angry about losing Stone. F**k Melnyk.

 

[Sting]

I know we all see San Jose at the bottom of the league now, but there is no way they are finishing in the bottom 5.

 

[supsens]

....by letting his agent do the negotiating, like most NHLers?

Good grief.

That’s good they didn’t hear from his agent cool.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I know we all see San Jose at the bottom of the league now, but there is no way they are finishing in the bottom 5.

They very well could.

Top loaded roster. Questionable goaltending. Non-creative coach who's been tuned out.

Those are all the ingredients of an awful season. We had them all two years ago as well.

I can see a turnaround if they oust Deboer, but Wilson seems committed to him, for better or worse.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I’m so angry about losing Stone. F**k Melnyk.

Losing stone pissed me off more than Karlsson did.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Losing stone pissed me off more than Karlsson did.

I can’t believe we traded Mike Fisher!

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Now the Sharks go on a 16-4 run and the article looks silly

Is this like last year when the team put out that video with Kathleen Edward's narrating that said the team was smashing expectations then proceeded to be the worst team in hockey?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If Karlsson is done at 29, of course Ottawa ends up having made the right move. That's regardless of whether any of the pieces really pan out.

I'm not convinced that Karlsson is done. He looked awful to start last season in San Jose, then be went on one of the best runs of his career prior to hurting his groin.

Over the last 3 played seasons, he has played a lot of hockey while hurt. Maybe this is the new norm for him, or maybe he needs a year or so to recover.

If Karlsson recovers, Ottawa needs to end up with a top player to "win" the trade. Lafreniere, Byfield, etc. If Karlsson doesn't recover, the Sens win by default.

People have been telling us for a year that management wanted to keep him but he was greedy or non-commital. Now is the narrative that management was smart enough to cut bait on a declining superstar? They both can't be true.

At the end of the day, if this trade works out for us by giving us a top pick (which is still FAR from decided), there's not much more we could hope for.

 

[Micklebot]

Karlsson's been really up and down since the ECF run. He had a slow start with SJ, but was dynamite from remembrance day till he injured his groin with 38 pts in 35 games and a +14. This year, he's been pretty lousy.

The thing is, it's hard to guess which Karlsson you're going to get going forward. There was a time when people wanted to get rid of Alfredsson at around the same age as Karlsson is now. Too many injuries, not a playoff performer. He went on to become the most popular player to suit up for the franchise, scored 419 pts in the 387 games he played age 29 to 37. Thank goodness we never traded him for Conroy...

Time will tell if this trade was the Alfredsson for Conroy deal that never materialized , or a Yashin for Spezza deal that set the franchise up long term, or something in the middle. Things don't always turn out the way you expect early on.

I hope Karlsson turns things around (next year) and lives up to the expectations that he's capable of. The game is better with players like him playing to the best of their abilities. I also hope Norris and whoever we land with SJ pick sets this team up for long term success. Time will tell, just like it was too early to throw Dorion under the bus when he made the trade (I'll eat some crow on that one) it's too early to start heaping praise on him now as well. There`s lots of time for Karlsson to rebound, or picks and prospects to thrive. Maybe both teams win, maybe both lose. Who knows.

 

[2CHAINZ]

No wonder he has that girlfriend he's always talking about.

I know plenty of well below genius people who have girlfriends.

 

[inthewings]

Erik Karlsson represented significant trade capital at the time he was moved, and I believe that a successful return on that capital is a hard-to-acquire piece that contributes here over the long term (when wins actually matter). What we have so far:

DeMelo - pending UFA and might return a mid-late round pick
Tierney - RFA this offseason and UFA after next season
Rudolfs Balcers
Josh Norris
2019 pick 44 - used to trade up and select Mads Sogaard
2020 SJ 1st
2021 SJ 2nd

There are some outs here. Maybe Josh Norris becomes an elite 3C long term. Maybe Balcers becomes a consistent 25-goal winger. Maybe San Jose is actually terrible and their pick is top-10. But the other side of the coin is still in play: it's still entirety possible that Ottawa has nothing to show for Karlsson a year or two down the road.

 

[GCK]

I know we all see San Jose at the bottom of the league now, but there is no way they are finishing in the bottom 5.

Bottom 5 in the league would take injuries to guys like Kane Couture or Burns. I don’t see them better than 6th in their division and 10th in conference.