Proposal: Karlsson (19% retained) for Chabot + 2nd/Jarventie + Thomson/JBD

[coladin]

Zero expectations of ANYTHING. Like legit. Nothing. Could be a minus 100 and no one would care.

What are the expectations for the Sharks, as they openly tank, and Karlsson, guaranteed 11.5M? Right. Nothing. So he may as well go and play, and look how gun hockey is to play in that scenario. Watch Montreal sign Rafael HP, and then he has to play with trying to win games. It is as old as time, the trap that GMs fall into. Hell, we saw that last year with Joseph coming here with no expectations.

 

[Golden_Jet]

What are the expectations for the Sharks, as they openly tank, and Karlsson, guaranteed 11.5M? Right. Nothing. So he may as well go and play, and look how gun hockey is to play in that scenario. Watch Montreal sign Rafael HP, and then he has to play with trying to win games. It is as old as time, the trap that GMs fall into. Hell, we saw that last year with Joseph coming here with no expectations.

What is gun hockey

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

What are the expectations for the Sharks, as they openly tank, and Karlsson, guaranteed 11.5M? Right. Nothing. So he may as well go and play, and look how gun hockey is to play in that scenario. Watch Montreal sign Rafael HP, and then he has to play with trying to win games. It is as old as time, the trap that GMs fall into. Hell, we saw that last year with Joseph coming here with no expectations.

Which might be fair, but what else can the guy do? Can he only ever prove himself if he gets dealt?

The criticism the last couple years was that he wasn't producing and playing well. He can't change being on one of, if not the, worst rosters in the league until he isn't.

Defensive warts have and always will be there with such an offensive minded small D man, we saw them here, but the argument was he needs to produce at a certain level to counteract that, like he did in his time in Ottawa. Granted, he also had some times of pretty stellar D in Ottawa too.

Then this year he produces at what is essentially a historic season for dmen not seen in decades, above reasonable expectations, and those that are plugged in to the team claim he's played well and is clearly the teams generator at ES by a country mile.

Now it's said it's only because of the way the team plays and having no pressure, even though most would agree that the list of D men that could do the same only has one other name, Makar. I'm just trying to understand what he would need to do to change opinions... opinions that I'm willing to bet are almost entirely based on word of mouth and hearsay. Who in Ottawa is actually watching the worst team in the league on a paid center ice package until 1am? I'm betting that number is incredibly small.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Which might be fair, but what else can the guy do? Can he only ever prove himself if he gets dealt?

The criticism the last couple years was that he wasn't producing and playing well. He can't change being on one of, if not the, worst rosters in the league until he isn't.

Defensive warts have and always will be there with such an offensive minded small D man, we saw them here, but the argument was he needs to produce at a certain level to counteract that, like he did in his time in Ottawa. Granted, he also had some times of pretty stellar D in Ottawa too.

Then this year he produces at what is essentially a historic season for dmen not seen in decades, above reasonable expectations, and those that are plugged in to the team claim he's played well and is clearly the teams generator at ES by a country mile.

Now it's said it's only because of the way the team plays and having no pressure, even though most would agree that the list of D men that could do the same only has one other name, Makar. I'm just trying to understand what he would need to do to change opinions... opinions that I'm willing to bet are almost entirely based on word of mouth and hearsay. Who in Ottawa is actually watching the worst team in the league on a paid center ice package until 1am? I'm betting that number is incredibly small.

I’ll watch them along with other west teams. But only make third period if it’s a weekend.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I’ll watch them along with other west teams. But only make third period if it’s a weekend.

Me too, but then I live in the West, so not quite the late nights like you guys.

 

[BondraTime]

Wrong thread

 

[Micklebot]

-5 at TDL.

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He was right around even just after they traded his d partner Megna,

5v5 he was 70 GF, 54 GA on 7 Feb, I think Megna was traded on the 6th or 5th.

The sell off definitely had a major impact on his plus minus, and it's not as if Megna was an elite partner or anything. Trading Meier obviously hurt too,

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He was right around even just after they traded his d partner Megna,

5v5 he was 70 GF, 54 GA on 7 Feb, I think Megna was traded on the 6th or 5th.

The sell off definitely had a major impact on his plus minus, and it's not as if Megna was an elite partner or anything. Trading Meier obviously hurt too,

His production pace seemed to dip from then on as well iirc. At one point around that time he was on pace for about 110 but he finished with 101.

 

[Micklebot]

His production pace seemed to dip from then on as well iirc. At one point around that time he was on pace for about 110 but he finished with 101.

I mean, of course it did, they sold off a bunch of players.

I was hopeful he'd get traded to a contender, a bunch of the predictable criticisms would have quickly disappeared imo, he'd be on a playoff team, likely finish a plus player too, guaranteed Norris.

Instead, you're going to have voters claim they can't vote for him because great seasons don't count if you miss the playoffs or have a minus.

I'd love for him to come back, but not via a trade, when he's UFA, maybe there's a spot available to him in the same way Giroux came over. Would be great to see him finish his career here with us while we're in contention.

 

[Stylizer1]

Yeah, my bad everyone for bringing up Tkachuk with this guy.

It isn't personal at all. He had a great season, no question. But to bring him back here is the dumbest move this organization could make. That time has passed. His work ethic is a legitimate question. His durability is a legitimate question.

Karlsson had an outstanding playoffs in 2017. Heck, most playoffs he has been very good. But this year, on a tanking team, he had an incredible season. I just don't put as much weight on his season in that context. Opinions may vary, but I want that guy as far away from Ottawa as possible during a hockey season.

For a guy who won two Norris trophies and should of had at least 1 if not 2 more probably has a better work ethic than you are giving him credit for.

If his team made the playoffs and had 80 points would that change your mind?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I mean, of course it did, they sold off a bunch of players.

I was hopeful he'd get traded to a contender, a bunch of the predictable criticisms would have quickly disappeared imo, he'd be on a playoff team, likely finish a plus player too, guaranteed Norris.

Instead, you're going to have voters claim they can't vote for him because great seasons don't count if you miss the playoffs or have a minus.

I'd love for him to come back, but not via a trade, when he's UFA, maybe there's a spot available to him in the same way Giroux came over. Would be great to see him finish his career here with us while we're in contention.

Ya kind of goes without saying, just adding to your point about the post deadline drop off.

It did seem like a tough mid season trade, so maybe he'll still go to a contender this summer, but hopefully you're wrong about that affecting the Norris voting. He deserves this one imo.

 

[coladin]

What is gun hockey

Lol as it sounds!

Fun hockey hahah

 

[DylanSensFan]

That's a no for me. I love Karlsson, but he isn't worth the future of our team.

 

[DJB]

Mods should probably lock this thread. It’s somewhat pointless

 

[Stylizer1]

That's a no for me. I love Karlsson, but he isn't worth the future of our team.

At some point we need to make a move to improve the roster for a run. Why not go out and get one of the best dmen of this generation who actually never wanted to leave and would come back in a heart beat? that seems like a no brainer.

 

[Golden_Jet]

At some point we need to make a move to improve the roster for a run. Why not go out and get one of the best dmen of this generation who actually never wanted to leave and would come back in a heart beat? that seems like a no brainer.

We already tried accelerating, with Cat and Chychurn I was a huge Karl fan, but happy we’ve moved on now, he didn’t like practising. So no one practiced.

 

[aragorn]

It will probably depend on how much SJ retains in salary, I doubt anyone takes him especially Ott & SJ is stuck with him for the next few yrs.

 

[DylanSensFan]

At some point we need to make a move to improve the roster for a run. Why not go out and get one of the best dmen of this generation who actually never wanted to leave and would come back in a heart beat? that seems like a no brainer.

Sure, let's get him with assets we aren't currently developing. Kind of like how we got Chychrun.

 

[Agent Zub]

Sure, let's get him with assets we aren't currently developing. Kind of like how we got Chychrun.

Jarventie and JBD/ Thomson aren't even assets that hurt though, especially the latter two when we are adding an RD.


And not only that but one of the greatest RDs of All Time.

Debrincat and Chychrun are relative nobodies compared to EK and his impact towards winning games. Which is what we are desperately trying to do.

 

[Stylizer1]

We already tried accelerating, with Cat and Chychurn I was a huge Karl fan, but happy we’ve moved on now, he didn’t like practising. So no one practiced.

I wouldn't say adding those two were accelerating rather filling out our roster with better players. Cat was a rental at this point unless he re-signs. We need more skill on D and it will be impossible to improve that much any other way.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I wouldn't say adding those two were accelerating rather filling out our roster with better players. Cat was a rental at this point unless he re-signs. We need more skill on D and it will be impossible to improve that much any other way.

It was accelerating, when all you traded was draft picks.
Though I am okay with it, we need to keep our higher round picks now for a bit.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It was accelerating, when all you traded was draft picks.
Though I am okay with it, we need to keep our higher round picks now for a bit.

Accelerating might be pushing it considering how Chychrun is a walking bandaid. We might end up regretting that trade in a few years. And who knows what the hell is going to happen with Cat.

Those trades might end up being a setback when we look back on this in a few years.

 

[Agent Zub]

Mods should probably lock this thread. It’s somewhat pointless

in the last 3 seasons combined, Chabot has put up 72 even strength points.

Karlsson this season put up 74 even strength points.

let that sink in.