Proposal: Karlsson (19% retained) for Chabot + 2nd/Jarventie + Thomson/JBD

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I don't get the logic behind the argument that EK hasn't been good in SJ. Even though he's player on one leg prior to this season, he produced at a .67 ppg, or a 55 point average. That isn't worth $11 million per season, but once again, this is one legged Karlsson who is finally feeling healthy for the first time in years. At his "bad", he's still very good (night and day compared top Chabot.

This year, the Sharks had a goal differential of -87, EK's +- is -26, he's not even the worst on his team. If we're going to use plus minus, lets have some context behind it.

I get the argument of not thinking EK can maintain his healthy play at his current age with injury history, totally valid argument, its why I don't want him back. But the notion that he has been "bad" by any means or not dominant, he's still dominant enough to be a very good defender.

I'd wager it's in comparison with the cap hit and contract.

Erik had an amazing year, but that contract is a killer.

 

[Stylizer1]

So what do you call Giroux then....? Hes probably our best FA signing ever that happens to be a star veteran player, and also captained a popular team for a decade....

Hasek was a weirdo goalie that bailed on the team when they needed him most.... not exactly the shining beacon of stability you seem to be craving...

You can't be serious. Hasek alone made us favorites to win the cup after years of choking. Giroux is no doubt the type of vet who fits the role I'm talking about but Karlsson is still on another level. We need more than 1 impact vet to get this team where it needs to be. This thread isn't about Giroux.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

EK65 was and probably still is my favourite Senator… but since he left the Sens, he has not been a “dominant“ player, until this season, he did not have “all of that ability“ until this season, so what leads you to believe he will be able to play at this seasons level, when he had so many subpar seasons since he left the Senators?

with the salary cap staying where it is now, for at least one more season if not more, why would the management bring on cap management headaches for a few more years of EK65, and the players lost in a trade that have many more year ahead of them than EK65?


No one is disputing his 2022 23 seasons has been spectacular for him personally….. not so much for his team, and what guarantees are there that he can repeat a few more years like this past one?

take a look at his plus/minus….. how is that going to help the Senators defensive zone shortcoming?

also this looks his first 82 game season for the Sharks, can he stay out of injury trouble that has plagued him since his move to San Jose?



hard pass.


View attachment 699333

He was terrific last year before the injury, but not quite the production of this year.

That first year in SJ he was also really good and produced at an almost ppg regular season and playoffs as they went on a deep run.

It's really only been the two year period of those 2019-20, 2020-21 seasons he really struggled and the injuries that have kept him to ~55 games a season.

Of course you expect more for 11.5 mil, but his downfall has been exaggerated.


Realistically, how many people here have even seen a Sharks game over that period that wasn't against the Senators or on that deep playoff run and could actually be considered an informed opinion for anything but the stats sheet? Not saying they're wrong, but I highly doubt almost anyone here, being mostly eastern time zone residents, have even seen much, if any, of Karlsson since he left Ottawa.

I'd wager it's in comparison with the cap hit and contract.

Erik had an amazing year, but that contract is a killer.

Unless he can continue to produce, even at a reduced clip from this year, say a ppg give or take.

He definitely earned his salary this year at least and the question is whether its an outlier or a return to form.

And 4 years isn't that crazy imo. With some retention and salary going the other way, sort of like how Edmonton fit Ekholm in, it could make a lot of sense for another team out there.

 

[Answer]

nah

Chabot is pretty good

 

[Xspyrit]

I change management and coaching staff wayyyyyyyy before I make this trade

And while I love EK this won’t solve the issues

 

[coladin]

Do you make it? And if not why and what has to change?

+ Maybe squeeze Joseph in the trade to shed further salary.

When you play with zero expectations of the playoffs, it is amazing how good you look.

Hell no

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

When you play with zero expectations of the playoffs, it is amazing how good you look.

Hell no

How many defencemen in the NHL do you think would be capable of what Karlsson did this year, production wise, if put in the same position? Honest question. Makar maybe?

 

[DaveMatthew]

When you play with zero expectations of the playoffs, it is amazing how good you look.

Hell no

That's funny, because all of the players on this team (minus Giroux) have played their entire careers with zero expectations of the playoffs. Chabot has been in the league for 6 seasons and the most pressure he's ever had was a vague "we want to play meaningful games around the trade deadline" proclamation.

Are they good?

 

[Agent Zub]

When you play with zero expectations of the playoffs, it is amazing how good you look.

Hell no

are there zero expectations in the WJC, the Olympics, World Championships, the NHL playoffs and when the team is fighting tooth and nail for a playoff berth?

Cuz those are all the scenarios where EK proved himself the best in the world (and ever)

sorta of a dumb post tbh.

and like Dave alludes, our team could use a player who steps up in the face of expectations.

 

[BondraTime]

Karlsson was also on the ice for the most GA scored in recent memory, by a lot.

You’re not going to get 100 point Karlsson again.

You’re trading for a happy medium of the guy who you couldn’t pay teams to take less than 9 months ago, and the guy who scored 100 points this year

That isn’t a big package. Teams aren’t going to be ponying up much for Karlsson, with context to this package.

 

[Agent Zub]

Karlsson was also on the ice for the most GA scored in recent memory, by a lot.

You’re not going to get 100 point Karlsson again.

You’re trading for a happy medium of the guy who you couldn’t pay teams to take less than 9 months ago, and the guy who scored 100 points this year

That isn’t a big package. Teams aren’t going to be ponying up much for Karlsson, with context to this package.

serious how many games of EK did you watch this season?

The man had a plus/minus rating of +2 around the trade deadline, which is better than all of our stars on a team that was one of the worst in recent memory.

However, the Sharks were competitive whenever Karlsson was on the ice, even against the best teams. Don't you think we could use that?

Karlsson's 100-point performance is only one month old; do you think he's going to lose all of his talent over the summer? Even if he regresses by 20-30 percent, he would still be better than Chabot lol

 

[Micklebot]

Karlsson was also on the ice for the most GA scored in recent memory, by a lot.

You’re not going to get 100 point Karlsson again.

You’re trading for a happy medium of the guy who you couldn’t pay teams to take less than 9 months ago, and the guy who scored 100 points this year

That isn’t a big package. Teams aren’t going to be ponying up much for Karlsson, with context to this package.

3 more all situations in 400 more mins than Peeke (5 more 5v5 in 240 more mins) is by a lot?

 

[Hale The Villain]

I'd wager it's in comparison with the cap hit and contract.

Erik had an amazing year, but that contract is a killer.

EK with 19% retained would make his cap hit 9.35M, with only 7.8975M in average salary owed per year.

Coming off of an 100P year I think there's no question that a team would give him a 9.35M x 4YR contract in free agency.

I think there's a better chance that Karlsson lives up to his retained contract than Chabot lives up to his 8M x 5YR deal at 9.2M average salary per year, despite the difference in age.

 

[coladin]

How many defencemen in the NHL do you think would be capable of what Karlsson did this year, production wise, if put in the same position? Honest question. Makar maybe?

As we saw with the Bruins, and to a lesser extent the Senators, there is a different game when there are expectations. Bruins were so far ahead of everyone that they played without a care in the world. Then, when the prsssure looked, they turned into the NHL's version of "Space Jam" with the Panthers the villain who took away the Bruins hockey skills.

If there were expectations to win games, I think we can knock off quite a few points. Makar did it while the Avs were fighting to get into the playoffs. Same with Montour.

I love Karlsson, but he can stay the hell away from this group.

are there zero expectations in the WJC, the Olympics, World Championships, the NHL playoffs and when the team is fighting tooth and nail for a playoff berth?

Cuz those are all the scenarios where EK proved himself the best in the world (and ever)

sorta of a dumb post tbh.

and like Dave alludes, our team could use a player who steps up in the face of expectations.

A dumb posted is basically the three hundred or so you have in the Tkachuk thread.

EK was on a team that was tanking. You have to take what those players achieve, and not just him, guys like Zegras, Rafael whateverthehellhisname is in Montreal, all these new guys who play with nothing on the line. it is a different game. Tierney looked much better when the team was tanking

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

EK65 all day, every day.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

As we saw with the Bruins, and to a lesser extent the Senators, there is a different game when there are expectations. Bruins were so far ahead of everyone that they played without a care in the world. Then, when the prsssure looked, they turned into the NHL's version of "Space Jam" with the Panthers the villain who took away the Bruins hockey skills.

If there were expectations to win games, I think we can knock off quite a few points. Makar did it while the Avs were fighting to get into the playoffs. Same with Montour.

I love Karlsson, but he can stay the hell away from this group.

I respect your points, but I think you're overcomplicating the Bruins parallel. It is a common occurrence for top teams to come crashing down early on when the games matter again and of course they played loose throughout the year being so far ahead. That matchup appeared to be bad for them too with Florida rounding into form and goaltending evening out.

That wasn't my question though and I'm genuinely curious what people think. Ignoring any context about going to the Senators or the teams performance. I see Makar as the only guy in the league that could potentially do what Karlsson just did if put in the same circumstances, since he came close last year, but they are in a class of their own.

 

[Agent Zub]

As we saw with the Bruins, and to a lesser extent the Senators, there is a different game when there are expectations. Bruins were so far ahead of everyone that they played without a care in the world. Then, when the prsssure looked, they turned into the NHL's version of "Space Jam" with the Panthers the villain who took away the Bruins hockey skills.

If there were expectations to win games, I think we can knock off quite a few points. Makar did it while the Avs were fighting to get into the playoffs. Same with Montour.

I love Karlsson, but he can stay the hell away from this group.


A dumb posted is basically the three hundred or so you have in the Tkachuk thread.

EK was on a team that was tanking. You have to take what those players achieve, and not just him, guys like Zegras, Rafael whateverthehellhisname is in Montreal, all these new guys who play with nothing on the line. it is a different game. Tierney looked much better when the team was tanking

"I love Karlsson, but he can stay the hell away from this group."

This is personal for you, probably because Melnyk and Dorion got into your head, blaming 'the room' for the 2018 collapse, and you took it hook, line, and sinker. Because this makes no sense.

Also, you talk about performing when having expectations. Like I mentioned, Karlsson has proven himself to be a standout performer at every high-stakes level he has ever played at! He not only matched but exceeded expectations! Olympics, playoffs, whatever.

Also, it's sort of funny you're bringing up how no one else's points matter because they were playing like they had no expectations and thus only cared about points and not defense and whatnot.

But what does that say about Brady? We had so much expectations to be good this year, and the man played like he was allergic to the defensive zone the entire f***ing year lol

you excuse Brady for the same thing you're critical of Karlsson about. wack

 

[armani]

 

[Tuna99]

As we saw with the Bruins, and to a lesser extent the Senators, there is a different game when there are expectations. Bruins were so far ahead of everyone that they played without a care in the world. Then, when the prsssure looked, they turned into the NHL's version of "Space Jam" with the Panthers the villain who took away the Bruins hockey skills.

If there were expectations to win games, I think we can knock off quite a few points. Makar did it while the Avs were fighting to get into the playoffs. Same with Montour.

I love Karlsson, but he can stay the hell away from this group.


A dumb posted is basically the three hundred or so you have in the Tkachuk thread.

EK was on a team that was tanking. You have to take what those players achieve, and not just him, guys like Zegras, Rafael whateverthehellhisname is in Montreal, all these new guys who play with nothing on the line. it is a different game. Tierney looked much better when the team was tanking

I see the Boston team similar to the old Jacques Martin led Sens teams - they’d play so well and so hard in the regular season and win a ton but they didn’t have another gear come playoff team. They stayed the same speed and same intensity while other teams went hardcore and sped up.

Two years in a row they win the division and go out in the 1st round

 

[coladin]

"I love Karlsson, but he can stay the hell away from this group."

This is personal for you, probably because Melnyk and Dorion got into your head, blaming 'the room' for the 2018 collapse, and you took it hook, line, and sinker. Because this makes no sense.

Also, you talk about performing when having expectations. Like I mentioned, Karlsson has proven himself to be a standout performer at every high-stakes level he has ever played at! He not only matched but exceeded expectations! Olympics, playoffs, whatever.

Also, it's sort of funny you're bringing up how no one else's points matter because they were playing like they had no expectations and thus only cared about points and not defense and whatnot.

But what does that say about Brady? We had so much expectations to be good this year, and the man played like he was allergic to the defensive zone the entire f***ing year lol

you excuse Brady for the same thing you're critical of Karlsson about. wack

Yeah, my bad everyone for bringing up Tkachuk with this guy.

It isn't personal at all. He had a great season, no question. But to bring him back here is the dumbest move this organization could make. That time has passed. His work ethic is a legitimate question. His durability is a legitimate question.

Karlsson had an outstanding playoffs in 2017. Heck, most playoffs he has been very good. But this year, on a tanking team, he had an incredible season. I just don't put as much weight on his season in that context. Opinions may vary, but I want that guy as far away from Ottawa as possible during a hockey season.

 

[coladin]

I respect your points, but I think you're overcomplicating the Bruins parallel. It is a common occurrence for top teams to come crashing down early on when the games matter again and of course they played loose throughout the year being so far ahead. That matchup appeared to be bad for them too with Florida rounding into form and goaltending evening out.

That wasn't my question though and I'm genuinely curious what people think. Ignoring any context about going to the Senators or the teams performance. I see Makar as the only guy in the league that could potentially do what Karlsson just did if put in the same circumstances, since he came close last year, but they are in a class of their own.

It is the way the Bruins collapsed. I have never seen anything like it. Space Jam. They were literally trembling in their skates paralyzed by the pressure. And they had "leaders" on that team. I don't think any matchup should have been bad. They simply choked.

It just goes to show you how much hockey is mental. more than people think.

Back to your questions, the only comparison would be Makar, maybe Fox. A strong argument can be made about Brandon Montour, who had a Karlsson-like performance as well against the Bruins. You can argue that he had a better round than Karlsson did, and if this team was in a hockey market, he would be a Conn Smythe contender

 

[Burrowsaurus]

When you play with zero expectations of the playoffs, it is amazing how good you look.

Hell no

Zero expectations of ANYTHING. Like legit. Nothing. Could be a minus 100 and no one would care.

 

[bert]

How many defencemen in the NHL do you think would be capable of what Karlsson did this year, production wise, if put in the same position? Honest question. Makar maybe?

That doesnt change the fact he isnt a good fit here at the expense of a player that currently is that is 7 years younger and makes less money. This team isnt competing for a cup right now. Their two best players are 21 years old.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It is the way the Bruins collapsed. I have never seen anything like it. Space Jam. They were literally trembling in their skates paralyzed by the pressure. And they had "leaders" on that team. I don't think any matchup should have been bad. They simply choked.

It just goes to show you how much hockey is mental. more than people think.

Back to your questions, the only comparison would be Makar, maybe Fox. A strong argument can be made about Brandon Montour, who had a Karlsson-like performance as well against the Bruins. You can argue that he had a better round than Karlsson did, and if this team was in a hockey market, he would be a Conn Smythe contender

Interesting. That wasn't what I felt like I was watching, but then, I didn't pay to close attention not really caring about the series in general, so what do I know. Just seemed like two even teams when the going got tough and one team got an extra goal when it mattered, but again it was mostly on in the background while cooking, etc.

And reasonable choices there for who might be able to replicate Karlsson's production this year. Say what you will about the defensive end, or whatever else, but it takes a ton of talent to do what he did and I'm not convinced anyone but Makar could do it. Hell, I'm not sure Karlsson could do it again, a lot has to go right to have a record breaking type season. Just like McDavid may not replicate this season again either.

That doesnt change the fact he isnt a good fit here at the expense of a player that currently is that is 7 years younger and makes less money. This team isnt competing for a cup right now. Their two best players are 21 years old.

I think it's fair to ask that simple question without wading in to the debate about a fit in Ottawa. We disagree on the fit, so not much point to debate, especially considering its not gonna happen.

 

[Golden_Jet]

serious how many games of EK did you watch this season?

The man had a plus/minus rating of +2 around the trade deadline, which is better than all of our stars on a team that was one of the worst in recent memory.

However, the Sharks were competitive whenever Karlsson was on the ice, even against the best teams. Don't you think we could use that?

Karlsson's 100-point performance is only one month old; do you think he's going to lose all of his talent over the summer? Even if he regresses by 20-30 percent, he would still be better than Chabot lol

-5 at TDL.

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