Well your overall point may still be valid but Chabby would not put up anywhere near 100 points even if he never stepped south of the red line!
Proposal: Karlsson (19% retained) for Chabot + 2nd/Jarventie + Thomson/JBD
- Thread starter Agent Zub
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Not trying to be rude but I think its time to really put down those 2017 playoff run goggles for some here and accept it as a one of the way EK played in those playoffs.
His outstanding individual season was in line with his team placing 29th in the final standings. What exactly would he bring to the table that the team already does not have ?
His outstanding individual season was in line with his team placing 29th in the final standings. What exactly would he bring to the table that the team already does not have ?
I wouldn't do this deal because I don't want Karlsson back.
But it highlights the problem we're going to have with Chabot's contract if his play doesn't pick up in a huge way
But it highlights the problem we're going to have with Chabot's contract if his play doesn't pick up in a huge way
bert
Registered User
Absolutely not. Horrid deal. A year ago San Jose couldn't give Karlsson away for free. Karlsson is 32. This team is building around Stutzle and Sanderson who are 21.
Chabot didn't just forget how to play hockey. He battled injury all season and i think is going through what alot of 26 year Olds go through when they get an 8 year contract for 60+ million. Karlsson also went through it which is kinda ironic considering people are conveniently forgetting him being terrible relative to his salary. Mostly I'd imagine because no one watched him in San Jose when he was struggling.
Chabot didn't just forget how to play hockey. He battled injury all season and i think is going through what alot of 26 year Olds go through when they get an 8 year contract for 60+ million. Karlsson also went through it which is kinda ironic considering people are conveniently forgetting him being terrible relative to his salary. Mostly I'd imagine because no one watched him in San Jose when he was struggling.
DJB
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If DJ is still the coach, I don't make this trade. He still plays Chabot 25 minutes a game even though he's not good enough, he'd find a way to play EK 35 minutes a game without OT.
I don't trade Chabot until we see how he is under a different coach. If he can't regain 55pt form next year, that's when I consider moving him.
EK is the better play right now, both defensively and offensively, but we already have one injury prone guy in Chychrun, don't need another.
Unless the deal is stupidly one sided (SJ retaining 25%, taking Joseph, and prospects like Sokolov and Thomsons along with Chabot), I don't think its worth it in the long run. If EK wants to sign here after his deal finishes, sure, but wouldn't trade for him with Chabot still potentially being worth his cap hit and us still having DJ
I don't trade Chabot until we see how he is under a different coach. If he can't regain 55pt form next year, that's when I consider moving him.
EK is the better play right now, both defensively and offensively, but we already have one injury prone guy in Chychrun, don't need another.
Unless the deal is stupidly one sided (SJ retaining 25%, taking Joseph, and prospects like Sokolov and Thomsons along with Chabot), I don't think its worth it in the long run. If EK wants to sign here after his deal finishes, sure, but wouldn't trade for him with Chabot still potentially being worth his cap hit and us still having DJ
I didn’t say 100. I said more. Chabot was counted on for essentially all our defence. Karlsson was counted on for zero defence and he gave them about that.
BondraTime
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Whoever trades for Karlsson likely regrets it shortly after
L'Aveuglette
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I dunno, it feels like it's the people wanting to trade Chabot for a soon-to-be 33 year old who just had an outlier year that are basing their opinion solely on emotion and nostalgia.
BonHoonLayneCornell
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As unlikely as this is, and not worth the discussion anymore, last years Karlsson before the injury was still better than Chabot's been and the argument that he could still be for the remainder of their contracts is legitimate, as much as many won't admit that. They both have pretty short runways left on their deals and are paid comparatively. Maybe that's more of a Chabot problem, but it doesn't make it less true. I like the guy, but there's no reasonable argument that his ceiling is anywhere near what Karlsson's was/is.
It's never gonna happen, but pretending like there's no chance it could work out well is being just as disingenuous as those that call it a slam dunk.
He just put up the best offensive season seen from a D man in what, 30 years? 40? ever? Call it abandoning defence, and I'd bet nobody here watched much of the Sharks and are just water bottle carrying that opinion, but he still did it and that means something. Other players flat out aren't capable of what he did this year and realistically, he should have been the first 4 year Norris winner since Lidstrom.
Admittedly though, I just want it for the feels and to give the guy the send off he deserves. It's a shame its become trendy to hate on him, he should be out front of the new arena in bronze right next to Alfie when it's all said and done.
It's never gonna happen, but pretending like there's no chance it could work out well is being just as disingenuous as those that call it a slam dunk.
He just put up the best offensive season seen from a D man in what, 30 years? 40? ever? Call it abandoning defence, and I'd bet nobody here watched much of the Sharks and are just water bottle carrying that opinion, but he still did it and that means something. Other players flat out aren't capable of what he did this year and realistically, he should have been the first 4 year Norris winner since Lidstrom.
Admittedly though, I just want it for the feels and to give the guy the send off he deserves. It's a shame its become trendy to hate on him, he should be out front of the new arena in bronze right next to Alfie when it's all said and done.
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Agent Zub
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Lol you realize that Chabot also fits the description of aging, injury prone player with a massive contract.
The only difference is that one player is a generational player who just put up a historically dominant season..
The other guy, has NEVER put up an elite season in the NHL.
Like if Karlsson is only a #1d. Chabot has only been a #2 or #3 if we are being fair.
The gulf in talent between them is massive. Karlsson can sleep walk to more dominant seasons and games than Chabot can sober. These are facts.
It's like comparing Crosby to Debrincat or something. On one side you have all time greats who can dominate games like no else and on the other side you have two players who will be forgotten as soon as they retire.
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
I think this trade is unrealistic, but let's be real here... for the past 3 seasons, Chabot has been allowed to go out there and do whatever he's wanted. He's more often than not terrible in his own end and coasts around for 70% of each game pointing at his teammates.
He provides the same level of defense and intensity as Karlsson, just 50% less offense.
They have the same flaws.
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
Or they've watched Chabot regress for the last 3 seasons...
Both guys are bad defensively. One guy is a lot better offensively than the other.
It's a completely unrealistic trade scenario, though. I don't think San Jose would have any interest in Chabot.
They do not have the same flaws. Or the same strengths. And no he hast been given the green light to do whatever. We have defensive expectations of him. Whether you think he has met them or not is up to you but a totally different argument.
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
They both lack intensity for much of the game.
They both are careless in their own end.
One is world-class offensively – among the best of all time. The other is above-average offensively – very good but not great.
DJ Smith has sent Chabot out there for 28 minutes a night, carte-blanche, and patted him on the back after each careless defensive play. It's one of the main reasons this team has remained a tire fire in their own end.
"Defensive expectations". Lol. Have you watched this team under this coaching staff? There are no defensive expectations on Tkachuk, Stützle, Batherson... and certainly not on Chabot.
Karlsson makes no sense for Ottawa.
But Chabot is certainly not better.
*I like Chabot. I think he can carve out a good role on this team (with a new coaching staff). And this trade scenario is completely unrealistic and will never happen. But I just don't comprehend how someone could say that Karlsson's style of play isn't a good fit for this team while at the same time pump Chabot's tires. If you believe that, you probably shouldn't want to keep Chabot...
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Agent Zub
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So are you saying Karlssons style makes him a bad player for the playoffs?
Cuz I mean he was only our best playoff performer ever....
And do you think Chabot being allowed to do whatever will just let him get 100 points? Cuz it's as simple as doing whatever you want?
And again Karlsson was a better defensive player than Chabot this year.
Where did I mention the playoffs? Or did you just try to start a new argument lol. Yeah karlsson was great in 2017. Proceeded to be very bad for the next 4 years.
No I don’t think Chabot would get 100 points.
Karlsson got a 100 points.. look where his team finished? That’s sort of his MO.
DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
Is it? Because Karlsson has been a core piece on pretty competitive teams. I believe he's made it to conference finals twice, right? The Sharks were brutal last year, no doubt. But Karlsson has been in the league for 12 years. MO implies that he's always been a good player but on bad teams... which isn't really true.
Using where San Jose finished last year as a "slight" against him would be like using Ottawa's record over the last 4 years as a slight against Tkachuk. "Tkachuk's MO is missing the playoffs and getting media attention in the summers." That'd be a dumb take, wouldn't it?
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BonHoonLayneCornell
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I'm convinced nobody here watches much, if any, Sharks games. Probably because they're a west coast team and much too late for east coasters. He looks like the same player that was in Ottawa when I've watched him 30-40 games a season. His first season there was good and his play has pretty much fluctuated with the state of the team, which is no surprise. He's capable of the same level of play he had in Ottawa and I don't get the prevailing thought that he's washed or that this season can be waved away as nothing but abandoning defence even though it's unheard of. It was arguably the best offensive season ever seen by a defenceman and yet its just hand waved away as nothing.
Micklebot
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Certainly a high risk move, you're acquiring a guy through their 33-36 year old seasons with an injury history.
I suspect what we saw this year is likely Karlsson's peak. Having said that, Lidstrom had some of his best seasons at around the same age as the remaining years of Karlsson's contract, so you never know.
Alf Silfversson
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I don't think this trade is realistic but let's not just make shit up. Karlsson's first year with SJ he was phenomenal (unfortunately got injured) and was a driving force in them getting to the WCF. His second year he was pretty darn good too. He had really just one BAD year. He underperformed his contract in more than one year but he was still a very good player.
And are we really going to get into the "his team finished here" logic, or lack thereof? We must not have any good players on our team the last 5 years then, including Chabot.
BonHoonLayneCornell
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Arguably though, Chabot has missed comparable time to injury, so he feels like an injury concern too, but the odds tell us the older guy is less likely to hold up which is hard to ignore.
Something like Josh Norris' shoulder issues make me more uncomfortable personally, even though he's young.
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DaveMatthew
Bring in Peter
Based on some of the posts in this forum, many seem to believe Karlsson "forgot how to play hockey" at 27 years old. The same age Chabot will be next year...
I like Chabot. I think he can rebound under a new coach. But he's not young. He's a veteran and needs to be way better. If he didn't get off to such a horrid start in October/November, maybe we'd be playing on Saturday night. How so many people baby him (on Twitter and in the media) is wild.
And in regards to the trade, it doesn't make sense, you're right.
Karlsson doesn't fit this team's timeline and San Jose would have zero interest in paying Chabot the $46M he's owed over the next 5 years as they rebuild.
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