The Marquis
Moderator
It’s a little weird that we’ve pegged a guy for our 4th line who just played on the 1st or 2nd line of a playoff team.
And I think that may be the reason that playoff team did not get far and we did. Improper utilization of the players best skills because of lack of depth on the team.It’s a little weird that we’ve pegged a guy for our 4th line who just played on the 1st or 2nd line of a playoff team.
We need to stop looking at Yamamoto as a Sprong replacement. He is not because he is a different player. He makes the team D better, can PK, and is not one dimensional. Regarding point production, Sprong had a career year where he more than doubled his previous career best. We may not be debating much if you took both of their previous seasons out of the equation and made a comparison based on that.The one thing above all else Sprong gave that 4th line was that he could score off the rush! That threat along produced and had others backing up I doubt Yamamoto will give the Kraken that but you never know...as for fit well sometimes you have to give the gifted some space and more time when they are on...
And I think that may be the reason that playoff team did not get far and we did. Improper utilization of the players best skills because of lack of depth on the team.
We need to stop looking at Yamamoto as a Sprong replacement. He is not because he is a different player. He makes the team D better, can PK, and is not one dimensional. Regarding point production, Sprong had a career year where he more than doubled his previous career best. We may not be debating much if you took both of their previous seasons out of the equation and made a comparison based on that.
And then you add the fact that we were healthy scratching Sprong, despite him having the career year. It did not matter to Hakstol and Francis that he can score goals, they want better rounded players.
Its quite obvious that Hakstol (and probably) Francis are not a fan of Sprong. However I don't really understand the takes about bad defense and one dimensional. All the data show a completely different picture.
Ramblings: Playmaking Standouts Including Sprong, Roslovic, Dach, Scheifele, And More - June 8
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Name me one team in the league with a "skilled" 4th line.The one thing above all else Sprong gave that 4th line was that he could score off the rush! That threat along produced and had others backing up I doubt Yamamoto will give the Kraken that but you never know...as for fit well sometimes you have to give the gifted some space and more time when they are on...
Donato and Geekie got for a large part similar sheltered minutes. It did not save their defensive metrics at all.But do those numbers look good as a result of Sprong's role being sheltered and the quality of teammates he had? For example, just comparing offensive/neutral/defensive zone starts between Yamamoto and Sprong, you can tell that one was trusted in all situations whereas the other was not. It is also the style of play in relation to be aggressive on the forecheck and backcheck.
Sprong may thrive on other teams but he has to be put in specific situations.
My real beef was that when Sprong was on and scoring the Kraken needed to put him on the PP more! And sometimes mix him with other linemates other than the 4th line where Geekie was there to do what exactly...not contribute Offense and Pass the Puck that's for sure. The thing is the Forward core outside of Beniers and a couple others are vets that have only so many years left...best to keep 25-26 year olds for Down the road when the interchangable part becomes even most importantAnd I think that may be the reason that playoff team did not get far and we did. Improper utilization of the players best skills because of lack of depth on the team.
We need to stop looking at Yamamoto as a Sprong replacement. He is not because he is a different player. He makes the team D better, can PK, and is not one dimensional. Regarding point production, Sprong had a career year where he more than doubled his previous career best. We may not be debating much if you took both of their previous seasons out of the equation and made a comparison based on that.
And then you add the fact that we were healthy scratching Sprong, despite him having the career year. It did not matter to Hakstol and Francis that he can score goals, they want better rounded players.
What are you trying to say?I'm confusedName me one team in the league with a "skilled" 4th line.
4th line is a role playing line filled with grit, 2 way players, energy guys, and if you're lucky good PK guys who can shutdown as well.What are you trying to say?I'm confused
He might not stay there if he plays well, but with how deep the Kraken are at forward there's no pressure on him to be more than that.It’s a little weird that we’ve pegged a guy for our 4th line who just played on the 1st or 2nd line of a playoff team.
A 1 dimensional player? A 21 Goal Scorer Right? How many teams have 21 goal scorers on their 4th line...none probably...and why are we stereo typing the 4th line players...they should be able to contribute Offense they're Forwards that's what they should be doing Offense and Defense because we are so found of Defense4th line is a role playing line filled with grit, 2 way players, energy guys, and if you're lucky good PK guys who can shutdown as well.
A one dimensional scorer is not what you want there.
Trust goes 2 ways...Hakstol could not be trusted to give more PP time when Sprong was scoring or the PP1 unit was sputteringDonato and Geekie got for a large part similar sheltered minutes. It did not save their defensive metrics at all.
It’s not surprising Sprong is gone as Hakstol indeed never trusted him.
But do those numbers look good as a result of Sprong's role being sheltered and the quality of teammates he had? For example, just comparing offensive/neutral/defensive zone starts between Yamamoto and Sprong, you can tell that one was trusted in all situations whereas the other was not. It is also the style of play in relation to be aggressive on the forecheck and backcheck.
Sprong may thrive on other teams but he has to be put in specific situations.
4th line is a role playing line filled with grit, 2 way players, energy guys, and if you're lucky good PK guys who can shutdown as well.
A one dimensional scorer is not what you want there.
That's actually a good thing:It’s a little weird that we’ve pegged a guy for our 4th line who just played on the 1st or 2nd line of a playoff team.
I have mentioned this already. Sprong was put in a situation to succeed and he did well. Also, we need to find a way to replace his production.The point is that we had that specific situation and set up for him to put up those great results which brought about great results for the team. Both him and the team might be worse off now.
If you exchanged Seattle's one-dimensional 4th line for a typical 4th line last year, they might not have made the playoffs. That's how good that line was. They greatly outscored opponents.
There's no question in my mind that by letting Sprong go we are making a significant downgrade in the regular season roster. I don't like it. It's the playoffs where things might be different because rush scoring drops off there. But you have to make the playoffs to have that problem, and our chances just went down.
I'm with @GrungeHockey on this one...typical team construction doesnt involve $2m AAV pure offense wingers on their 4th line.
That unit is lucky to get 7-10 minutes TOI a game, it's just not where you put those players. "Problem" is, Sprong doesnt realistically displace anyone above him on the Kraken depth chart for a higher line slot or more TOI
I have mentioned this already. Sprong was put in a situation to succeed and he did well. Also, we need to find a way to replace his production.
But if Yamamoto can produce more than half of what Sprong did while being more responsible defensively, PK and be trusted by coaching, it is a wash.
Also, there is no way we can guarantee Sprong would do the same this season on our team. It was a career season for him in a contract year. We can argue in circles about it but it's a moot point. Francis and Hakstol didn't think he was worth bringing back.
You're welcome to subscribe to that theory in team construction all you want, but when you get a player such as Sprong who doesnt want to be limited to 10-11 minutes per game, wants to be slotted on a higher line with higher-skill linemates, wants to be locked into a slot on a powerplay unit, and wants a commensurate AAV to all those things, dont be surprised if they seek that opportunity elsewhere rather than reside on your "balanced 4th line".When you have the best 4th line in the league (measured by how much they outscored opponents) you shouldn't be eager to exchange that for a typical 4th line. A typical 4th line gets outscored and plays more limited minutes.
That's not true. Seattle had 4 scoring lines last year and they all played good minutes, that's what allowed them to stay fresh and play high tempo so consistently.
There's no problem that Sprong doesn't displace anyone higher up, because he doesn't have to. He was marvelously effective where he was.
You're welcome to subscribe to that theory in team construction all you want, but when you get a player such as Sprong who doesnt want to be limited to 10-11 minutes per game, wants to be slotted on a higher line with higher-skill linemates, wants to be locked into a slot on a powerplay unit, and wants a commensurate AAV to all those things, dont be surprised if they seek that opportunity elsewhere rather than reside on your "balanced 4th line".
He was arbitration eligible(RFA) and as a 20+ goal scorer I am pretty sure Francis would not have liked the numbers. And it does appear that Francis is very picky about players in that situation.Could he be given a QO, or was he aged into UFA? If he was still RFA age then we should have given him the QO. If he was UFA age (I can't remember) then perhaps he refused to come back. But there is the argument being made here that the club should not have brought him back, and that I disagree with.
Don't you want players to play hard to get the opportunity for more work and better linemates otherwise might as well go back to the USSRYou're welcome to subscribe to that theory in team construction all you want, but when you get a player such as Sprong who doesnt want to be limited to 10-11 minutes per game, wants to be slotted on a higher line with higher-skill linemates, wants to be locked into a slot on a powerplay unit, and wants a commensurate AAV to all those things, dont be surprised if they seek that opportunity elsewhere rather than reside on your "balanced 4th line".
Not even sure how to respond to that, brother.Don't you want players to play hard to get the opportunity for more work and better linemates otherwise might as well go back to the USSR