Kadri, how is this even possible?

[stickty111]

Sure, more likely with him for another few years yet though.

Its okay Gary, at least a certain someone will keep blaming you for saying that you would pay him 8 million, even though you never did

 

[stickty111]

Over the last two seasons, Kadri has produced at a #1C level, but now after a few unproductive weeks he's not even a good #3C any more according to you? Fascinating stuff.

Budsfan is right Kadri is not a good 3rd line C.

Kadri is a good 2nd line C.

 

[stickty111]

William Nylander and Nazem Kadri were a 68% CF tonight and outshot the opposition 11-3 at 5v5, to go along with the one goal for and none against. Against the Bruins on Saturday, they were an 83% CF (19 shot attempts for, 4 against), outshot the opposition 8-2, and weren’t on for any of the goals against.

They dominated together.
Nylander and Kadri have worked before, so they should work again.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You know, when I made this thread I thought Kadri was just in a slump, now I'm having a hard time thinking of the last time he had ANY positive impact, sure he got an asist last night on a play he had VERY little to do with but he also took ANOTHER penalty, maybe it's just me but it seems like he takes A LOT of calls

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Over the last two seasons, Kadri has produced at a #1C level, but now after a few unproductive weeks he's not even a good #3C any more according to you? Fascinating stuff.

Kadri is not, has never been, nor will he ever be a #1 center

 

[GBLeaf]

Naz was good last night. Really impactful in a way that it matters, we need him to be hitting as much as he did last night. Same for the Goat, his forechecking made that first goal. Canes' D took a second to move out the way then play a crappy pass because of it.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Naz was good last night. Really impactful in a way that it matters, we need him to be hitting as much as he did last night. Same for the Goat, his forechecking made that first goal. Canes' D took a second to move out the way then play a crappy pass because of it.

But at some point he needs to actually produce and tomorrow against Tampa would be a great start

 

[GBLeaf]

I think the points will come. But then i'm not sure we can expect 30 goals every year from our 3C.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Naz is so slow with the puck, he was never a burner but he used to get around much faster.

 

[Bluelines]

Its okay Gary, at least a certain someone will keep blaming you for saying that you would pay him 8 million, even though you never did

Pro Tip, he did say that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Its okay Gary, at least a certain someone will keep blaming you for saying that you would pay him 8 million, even though you never did

It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Kadri is not, has never been, nor will he ever be a #1 center

All I said was that he produced at a #1C level for a couple years. Low end #1C to be sure, still impressive for a guy who matched up against top lines with bottom 6 line mates much of the time though.

From reading some of the posts here you'd think he hasn't produced at all this season but he's still on pace for 45 points which is just fine for a #3C. I still think he hits at least 50 points this year, maybe even 55. I thought he played well last night, was nice to see glimpses of the old Kadri. I don't think the man's quite done yet, far from it in fact.

 

[Pookie]

There are a few streams in this discussion.

1) Kadri’s plus minus in relation to the team is just weird.

2) He is on a downward trend... not a blip... but still a great producer

3) Long term, we may need to consider a trade considering all the dough that will be spent at C and needs elsewhere.

4) the reason you consider moving him is that he is still a very good player, has a good contract. He has value on the market. He’s not a stiff.

Discussing these things does not need to offend the fan club. Not sure why it does.

 

[Bluelines]

I think the points will come. But then i'm not sure we can expect 30 goals every year from our 3C.

Point producers , except for the McDavid's, Matthew's, Marner's are by definition streaky goal scorers. Naz is the poster boy for streaky players, 7 goals in a 9 game stretch and then 1 goal for the rest of the season. He did something similar last year where he didn't do jack on the score sheet then went red hot.

Recently I've noticed 2 things about Naz 1) he is getting a boat load of grade A chances, usually means he is about to break out and 2) He is taking too direct of a route to the net, he needs to change his angle just before he shoots, to get the goalie moving or he needs to crash the net just a little more.

If he gets 20 this year I'd say that's a good season for a match up center.

 

[Bluelines]

There are a few streams in this discussion.

1) Kadri’s plus minus in relation to the team is just weird.

2) He is on a downward trend... not a blip... but still a great producer

3) Long term, we may need to consider a trade considering all the dough that will be spent at C and needs elsewhere.

4) the reason you consider moving him is that he is still a very good player, has a good contract. He has value on the market. He’s not a stiff.

Discussing these things does not need to offend the fan club. Not sure why it does.

1)Plus minus means nothing, its a useless stats, it always has been useless. It's like knowing how many blades of grass are on your back lawn. Useless information that you can do nothing with.

2) Until the season ends you can't really say what direction he is going in because he is such a streaky goal scorer. It's way too early to say from a scoring perspective if he is on a downward trend. If you take his performance from last year from Dec 12th to the end of the season and overlay it on this year, he would have 27 goals this season. Not far off the last 2 years.

3) With the cap going up because of expansion and the TV revenues from the US markets about to spike, (National contact is about it expire) we will have plenty of dough for cap room, to sign everyone.

4) Andersen has a very good contract, do we consider trading him too?

 

[4thline]

Point producers , except for the McDavid's, Matthew's, Marner's are by definition streaky goal scorers. Naz is the poster boy for streaky players, 7 goals in a 9 game stretch and then 1 goal for the rest of the season. He did something similar last year where he didn't do jack on the score sheet then went red hot.

Recently I've noticed 2 things about Naz 1) he is getting a boat load of grade A chances, usually means he is about to break out and 2) He is taking too direct of a route to the net, he needs to change his angle just before he shoots, to get the goalie moving or he needs to crash the net just a little more.

If he gets 20 this year I'd say that's a good season for a match up center.

Yup, 1 goal 3 assists through his last 13 games... but with 35 shots, should 3-5 goals. In this role you don't count on him for 30/30 seasons, but you don't take a cold streak from a streaky player as anything more than a cold streak

 

[The Apologist]

[QUOTE="Bluelines, post: 153531185, member: 212035",]

4) Andersen has a very good contract, do we consider trading him too?[/QUOTE]
if Andersen was our third best goalie we would certainly entertain the thought.

 

[4thline]

if Andersen was our third best goalie we would certainly entertain the thought

3rd goalie = depth, likely waste of roster spot and cap money, never sees ice if things go according to plan
3rd centre = crucial for game planning, sees almost as much ice as the centres ahead

nonsensical point, depth at those positions is fundamentally different

 

[The Apologist]

if Andersen was our third best goalie we would certainly entertain the thought

3rd goalie = depth, likely waste of roster spot and cap money, never sees ice if things go according to plan
3rd centre = crucial for game planning, sees almost as much ice as the centres ahead

nonsensical point, depth at those positions is fundamentally different

No more nonsensical than comparing Andersen's role (starting goalie) to Nazem Kadri (third line center) which the post I quoted was doing.

While Naz plays a key role in this team and I have no doubt will eventually break out of his offensive slump I have maintained for years that his defensive abilities have been inflated in these parts. Would I give him away? Not in a million years.
Is he untouchable?
Not in a million years.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No more nonsensical than comparing Andersen's role (starting goalie) to Nazem Kadri (third line center) which the post I quoted was doing.

While Naz plays a key role in this team and I have no doubt will eventually break out of his offensive slump I have maintained for years that his defensive abilities have been inflated in these parts. Would I give him away? Not in a million years.
Is he untouchable?
Not in a million years.

So we're now back to the "untouchable" strawman are we, good grief. Get a grip, nobody has ever said Kadri is untouchable.

 

[Bluelines]

[QUOTE="Bluelines, post: 153531185, member: 212035",]

4) Andersen has a very good contract, do we consider trading him too?

if Andersen was our third best goalie we would certainly entertain the thought.[/QUOTE]


The comment was made, if you have a good player with a good contract trade him before he declines. That standard should apply to every player, no?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Kadri should have tremendous value on the market. One way to look at it would be to say that right now he's playing like a $5M center getting paid $4.5M who has shown that he's capable of being a $7.5M guy. If we can sell the latter, that might be more value on the market than he's in a position to give us on the team.

I don't really see any reason why he wouldn't go back to being that guy for us again though. His usage is virtually identical to last season. He is due to get better production going forward. The PP1 will start scoring again and if Naz and Willy continue to dominate possession, they'll continue to produce even strength as well.

 

[Bluelines]

So we're now back to the "untouchable" strawman are we, good grief. Get a grip, nobody has ever said Kadri is untouchable.

Kadri is untouchable...

Well he's not wrong, Carlo tried to touch him and this happened....

 

[ULF_55]

Nazem Kadri has the 2nd best CF% on the team among regular forwards, and 4th overall among regulars.
Here is something, he has the 6th lowest On Ice SV% among regulars. This might explain his plus minus.
He also has the 2nd lowest On Ice SH% on the team. Nylander has the lowest but sample size is small, so Kadri pretty much has the lowest.

After a bad start, Kadri has been really good but is getting unlucky in terms of production and goals allowed when he is on the ice.

A few more games with Nylander and Marleau might see Kadri's +/- back on the plus side.

 

[Pookie]

1)Plus minus means nothing, its a useless stats, it always has been useless. It's like knowing how many blades of grass are on your back lawn. Useless information that you can do nothing with.

If you have 4 blades of grass on your lawn, that's not useless information. Probably a clue that you need to re-seed.

2) Until the season ends you can't really say what direction he is going in because he is such a streaky goal scorer. It's way too early to say from a scoring perspective if he is on a downward trend. If you take his performance from last year from Dec 12th to the end of the season and overlay it on this year, he would have 27 goals this season. Not far off the last 2 years.

Doing a Rolling 12 now? Ok.

27G 22A 49Points -12

That's far off the last 2 years (61,55). Declining trend.

3) With the cap going up because of expansion and the TV revenues from the US markets about to spike, (National contact is about it expire) we will have plenty of dough for cap room, to sign everyone.

Did you miss the last few weeks counting your grass?

Shanahan said that his core needed to find a way to fit. Given that they didn't get that low end of "fair" with Nylander... something has to give.

4) Andersen has a very good contract, do we consider trading him too?

Do we have the goaltending equivalent of Matthews and Tavares playing in front of him on the depth chart? If so, yes, yes we do.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Kadri should have tremendous value on the market. One way to look at it would be to say that right now he's playing like a $5M center getting paid $4.5M who has shown that he's capable of being a $7.5M guy. If we can sell the latter, that might be more value on the market than he's in a position to give us on the team.

I don't really see any reason why he wouldn't go back to being that guy for us again though. His usage is virtually identical to last season. He is due to get better production going forward. The PP1 will start scoring again and if Naz and Willy continue to dominate possession, they'll continue to produce even strength as well.

They really need to move Kadri to the second power play, he's wasted a bit on the first one. Kadri and Nylander would be a great pair to build the pp2 around.

I suspect that Nylander will be moved back to Matthews wing sooner rather than later.