Kadri, how is this even possible?

[Budsfan]

Kadri's under contract for a number of years yet so it's a bit early to worry about losing him for nothing.

Why are we talking about Bozak anyway, there can't possibly be anyone still left (other than Pookie I suppose) that still thinks we should have kept him instead of Kadri or am I wrong? Bozak isn't doing too well in STL I gather but whatever, I wish him well but don't really care much one way or the other. Kadri's way better than Bozak and has been for many years, this debate was done a long time ago.

Your absolutely right, Bozak is no longer a Leaf and it should be put in the past but your Kadri supporters will use any means they can to deflect Kadri's problems away from the fact the he is not a good 3rd line center and his cap hit will be scrutinized if there needs to be more cap room needed to sign other players.

To me he is just another player and that if he is unable to cut it as a 3rd line center, because of his cap hit of 4.5 million, he should be looked at to deal.

Calling Bozak derogatory names was childish and I for one thought it was very disrespectful but Bozak was just another player, as is Kadri and any player can be traded and should be if it helps the team, players like Bozak and Kadri can't play it all by themselves, this is a team sport, everyone has their place but their only here temporarily and are well paid for their services and all a contract guarantee's you is, that your money will be paid to the limit of the contract, no matter who you play for.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Your absolutely right, Bozak is no longer a Leaf and it should be put in the past but your Kadri supporters will use any means they can to deflect Kadri's problems away from the fact the he is not a good 3rd line center and his cap hit will be scrutinized if there needs to be more cap room needed to sign other players.

Over the last two seasons, Kadri has produced at a #1C level, but now after a few unproductive weeks he's not even a good #3C any more according to you? Fascinating stuff.

 

[Budsfan]

Over the last two seasons, Kadri has produced at a #1C level, but now after a few unproductive weeks he's not even a good #3C any more according to you? Fascinating stuff.

Bozak too produced at and was the #1 C but that was in the past and it is no longer relevant, just as Kadri's past accomplishments are no longer relevant, things have changed and it is what he is doing now as the 3rd line center, that matters, I grant you he has never had to play the shut down roll but unless he can turn things around and prevent goals from being scored which his stats show a minus 9, that indicate he is having trouble with and the reason for this thread in the first place, he is very suspect and as I said before, this will make him a target to move.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Bozak too produced at and was the #1 C but that was in the past and it is no longer relevant, just as Kadri's past accomplishments are no longer relevant, things have changed and it is what he is doing now as the 3rd line center, that matters, I grant you he has never had to play the shut down roll but unless he can turn things around and prevent goals from being scored which his stats show a minus 9, that indicate he is having trouble with and the reason for this thread in the first place, he is very suspect and as I said before, this will make him a target to move.

I wouldn't worry too much about the minus 9, this was addressed earlier in the thread and it's a pretty meaningless number. Or did you miss that post?

 

[Budsfan]

You may have dismissed it as a meaningless stat but they keep these stats for a reason and as only Holl has a minus 1 and everyone else on the team is on the plus side, it shows me how out of step Kadri is at back checking and playing a shut down role.

 

[43Kadri43]

Bozak too produced at and was the #1 C but that was in the past and it is no longer relevant, just as Kadri's past accomplishments are no longer relevant, things have changed and it is what he is doing now as the 3rd line center, that matters, I grant you he has never had to play the shut down roll but unless he can turn things around and prevent goals from being scored which his stats show a minus 9, that indicate he is having trouble with and the reason for this thread in the first place, he is very suspect and as I said before, this will make him a target to move.

This entire post, start to finish, is wrong.

Past accomplishments do matter because sample size matters; Bozak never produced at the level of a #1 centre; Kadri has played, and excelled, in a shutdown role; plus-minus is an atrocious statistic; he will not be a target to move.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You may have dismissed it as a meaningless stat but they keep these stats for a reason and as only Holl has a minus 1 and everyone else on the team is on the plus side, it shows me how out of step Kadri is at back checking and playing a shut down role.

There's a post on the first page of this thread that has been liked by 29 people I think, you should check it out, it provides some nice context for this +- number you find so meaningful. Stats can be useful but without the proper context, they are worse than useless. And don't worry too much about Kadri, all players go through slumps every now and then, even Kadri but it we got rid of players when they hit a rough patch, we wouldn't have enough players left to ice a team.

 

[Budsfan]

This entire post, start to finish, is wrong.

Past accomplishments do matter because sample size matters; Bozak never produced at the level of a #1 centre; Kadri has played, and excelled, in a shutdown role; plus-minus is an atrocious statistic; he will not be a target to move.

I can see by your avatar name you are part of the Kadri fan club and anything that is a bad Kadri stat is dismissed as not relevant.

LOL

 

[Budsfan]

There's a post on the first page of this thread that has been liked by 29 people I think, you should check it out, it provides some nice context for this +- number you find so meaningful. Stats can be useful but without the proper context, they are worse than useless. And don't worry too much about Kadri, all players go through slumps every now and then, even Kadri but it we got rid of players when they hit a rough patch, we wouldn't have enough players left to ice a team.

How many are, or re not, part of the "Kadri Fan Club"

 

[Stephen]

Over the last two seasons, Kadri has produced at a #1C level, but now after a few unproductive weeks he's not even a good #3C any more according to you? Fascinating stuff.

To date, Kadri hasn't been a good fit on the third line center role. For whatever reason, Kadri seems to have issues with remembering why he's successful in this league. He's always at his best when he plays engaged, plays aggressively as his foundation, and builds his skill game on top of that, as we've seen in 2013, 2017 and 2018. However, he seems to go long stretches where he forgets this and he kind of floats. I'd say he isn't in a position to take the bull by the horns on the PP, serving as a bit of a decoy, but generally his game has been lacking. Will he find his game eventually? Hopefully. But if he's not well suited to his new role, he's overpaid in that position.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Past accomplishments do matter because sample size matters;

Seems like a relatively simple concept.

How many are, or re not, part of the "Kadri Fan Club"

I suggest you focus on the actual content of posts, you might learn something.

To date, Kadri hasn't been a good fit on the third line center role. For whatever reason, Kadri seems to have issues with remembering why he's successful in this league. He's always at his best when he plays engaged, plays aggressively as his foundation, and builds his skill game on top of that, as we've seen in 2013, 2017 and 2018. However, he seems to go long stretches where he forgets this and he kind of floats. I'd say he isn't in a position to take the bull by the horns on the PP, serving as a bit of a decoy, but generally his game has been lacking. Will he find his game eventually? Hopefully. But if he's not well suited to his new role, he's overpaid in that position.

Every player has their ups and downs. Are you always this worried when a player goes through a bad stretch? Do you remember a few years ago at about the same point in the season when the posters who love to hate Kadri were labelling him a 32 point centre? Do you remember what happened next?

Just relax, Kadri is a very good player who's contract is a steal of a deal. Everything's going to be OK.

 

[Notsince67]

Your absolutely right, Bozak is no longer a Leaf and it should be put in the past but your Kadri supporters will use any means they can to deflect Kadri's problems away from the fact the he is not a good 3rd line center and his cap hit will be scrutinized if there needs to be more cap room needed to sign other players.

To me he is just another player and that if he is unable to cut it as a 3rd line center, because of his cap hit of 4.5 million, he should be looked at to deal.

Calling Bozak derogatory names was childish and I for one thought it was very disrespectful but Bozak was just another player, as is Kadri and any player can be traded and should be if it helps the team, players like Bozak and Kadri can't play it all by themselves, this is a team sport, everyone has their place but their only here temporarily and are well paid for their services and all a contract guarantee's you is, that your money will be paid to the limit of the contract, no matter who you play for.

This is just baffling. Not sure if you are trolling or you are truly thinking that there are better 3rd line centers to be had on the market.

 

[Notsince67]

You may have dismissed it as a meaningless stat but they keep these stats for a reason and as only Holl has a minus 1 and everyone else on the team is on the plus side, it shows me how out of step Kadri is at back checking and playing a shut down role.

Or it shows how out of step you are using +- as a meaningful individual statistic

 

[Trapper]

This is just baffling. Not sure if you are trolling or you are truly thinking that there are better 3rd line centers to be had on the market.

Only here would your 3rd line center with 16 points in 30 games and plays with bite and aggression (traits sorely lacking) be considered an issue. We could use another Kadri/Hyman forward.

 

[moon111]

All stats are useful, but often you have to ask yourself why in order to gleam any information from them.

I think if you look at some stats, you have to ask yourself, why?

1. If Toronto puts Bozak as the #1 center, that doesn't make Bozak a bad player.
2. If that same lack of depth has you down two goals so you're taking every chance possible to try and tie it up, that doesn't make Bozak a bad player despite the +/- figures.
3. And having two wingers that cannot not, and will not back-check... doesn't make Bozak a bad player either.

So lets use the same criteria to judge Kadri.

1. Role: 3rd line center. Kadri hasn't made a career being a defensive center. So congrats to him taking on this challenge. But when Babcock put Marner on his line, it was another yank to the chain. Better believe Kadri felt more natural... taking risks. Starting this season, Kadri's risk/reward wasn't on the right track. Kadri needs to have his role and the risk he take in that role laid out so he can consistently do his job.
2. Situation: Although people started harping on that he went on a scoring drought last season, as a 3rd line... So what? And lately, same thing. His line won't score as much if his line isn't pushing as much. When Kadri's not scoring and you look at the +/-, he might neutralizing one of the other team's best lines and finished a 'zero' on the night. That should be a case of pride, that's playing for the crest not the name on the back.
3. Line-mates: Kadri falls into a category where his skill-set is complementary. He has to sync-up to the level of his line-mates. Trying to play like Marner is on your line when it's Connor Brown isn't going to work. If he can develop some chemistry with Nylander, slowly turn up the risk. But he has to be willing to be invisible, neutralize the enemy in some games depending upon who he's playing with and if he does that, he IS doing his job despite fans who want everyone to be a 40 goal-scorer.

 

[Golden_Jet]

+/- Is a fine stat when used in the team concept and goal differential is used.

Team goal differential is + 25
And Kadri is a team worst at -9, next worst is -2.

 

[ULF_55]

He's on pace for about 44 points, which is fine.

Certainly, if there was a driver like Marner on his line he'd have potted a few more goals.

Marleau (scorer) - Kadri - Marner (playmaker)

Might also see a drop-off in goals because Tavares is a shooter, and so is Matthews on the 1st. PP unit.
Last year Matthews was on the 2nd. unit.
Kadri is kind of a net presence, but he isn't van Riemsdyk caliber net presence.
Perhaps time to move Kadri to be the 2nd. center on the 2nd. unit, with Nylander take strong side face-offs, along with Kadri.

Eventually, Kadri will be gone ... happens to even the best players of all time, but unless he's moved for in a huge deal for a RD, he's good for now.

 

[ULF_55]

+/- Is a fine stat when used in the team concept and goal differential is used.

Team goal differential is + 25
And Kadri is a team worst at -9, next worst is -2.

Yes, plus-minus isn't meaningless, as it is just another stat.

It doesn't make the player good or bad, it's just an indicator of something.

Could be based on usage, could be based on being weak defensively while not being productive offensively.

Just a stat, and eyeball test is still better when you don't have true measureable stats. Not every shot is equal. Not every face-off is equal, or equally important. Not every takeaway is equal. Not every save is equal. Not every blocked shot is equal (blocked shot with goalie in position <> blocked shot with goalie out of position).

 

[Gary Nylund]

+/- Is a fine stat when used in the team concept and goal differential is used.

Team goal differential is + 25
And Kadri is a team worst at -9, next worst is -2.

LOL.

 

[TootooTrain]

Every player has their ups and downs. Are you always this worried when a player goes through a bad stretch? Do you remember a few years ago at about the same point in the season when the posters who love to hate Kadri were labelling him a 32 point centre? Do you remember what happened next?

Just relax, Kadri is a very good player who's contract is a steal of a deal. Everything's going to be OK.

Welcome to hfboards/reddit/twitter.

 

[AuGsY]

All stats are useful, but often you have to ask yourself why in order to gleam any information from them.

I think if you look at some stats, you have to ask yourself, why?

1. If Toronto puts Bozak as the #1 center, that doesn't make Bozak a bad player.
2. If that same lack of depth has you down two goals so you're taking every chance possible to try and tie it up, that doesn't make Bozak a bad player despite the +/- figures.
3. And having two wingers that cannot not, and will not back-check... doesn't make Bozak a bad player either.

So lets use the same criteria to judge Kadri.

1. Role: 3rd line center. Kadri hasn't made a career being a defensive center. So congrats to him taking on this challenge. But when Babcock put Marner on his line, it was another yank to the chain. Better believe Kadri felt more natural... taking risks. Starting this season, Kadri's risk/reward wasn't on the right track. Kadri needs to have his role and the risk he take in that role laid out so he can consistently do his job.
2. Situation: Although people started harping on that he went on a scoring drought last season, as a 3rd line... So what? And lately, same thing. His line won't score as much if his line isn't pushing as much. When Kadri's not scoring and you look at the +/-, he might neutralizing one of the other team's best lines and finished a 'zero' on the night. That should be a case of pride, that's playing for the crest not the name on the back.
3. Line-mates: Kadri falls into a category where his skill-set is complementary. He has to sync-up to the level of his line-mates. Trying to play like Marner is on your line when it's Connor Brown isn't going to work. If he can develop some chemistry with Nylander, slowly turn up the risk. But he has to be willing to be invisible, neutralize the enemy in some games depending upon who he's playing with and if he does that, he IS doing his job despite fans who want everyone to be a 40 goal-scorer.

I feel sorry for you that you wasted that much time writing that useless wall of text.

 

[nsleaf]

Seems like a relatively simple concept.



I suggest you focus on the actual content of posts, you might learn something.



Every player has their ups and downs. Are you always this worried when a player goes through a bad stretch? Do you remember a few years ago at about the same point in the season when the posters who love to hate Kadri were labelling him a 32 point centre? Do you remember what happened next?

Just relax, Kadri is a very good player who's contract is a steal of a deal. Everything's going to be OK.

Of course it is Gary, with or without him.

 

[Pookie]

This entire post, start to finish, is wrong.

Past accomplishments do matter because sample size matters; Bozak never produced at the level of a #1 centre; Kadri has played, and excelled, in a shutdown role; plus-minus is an atrocious statistic; he will not be a target to move.

How does the past help us with a Cup run this year?

PS... Plekanec was our shutdown C last year in the playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Of course it is Gary, with or without him.

Sure, more likely with him for another few years yet though.

 

[stickty111]

Nazem Kadri has the 2nd best CF% on the team among regular forwards, and 4th overall among regulars.
Here is something, he has the 6th lowest On Ice SV% among regulars. This might explain his plus minus.
He also has the 2nd lowest On Ice SH% on the team. Nylander has the lowest but sample size is small, so Kadri pretty much has the lowest.

After a bad start, Kadri has been really good but is getting unlucky in terms of production and goals allowed when he is on the ice.