Kadri December 2013 ...

[The Winter Soldier]

We all get it, you don't like Kadri. Young players go through struggles including Bozak. But unlike Bozak, kadri wasn't gift wrapped the 1st line spot coming into the NHL. Your act is getting old. Bozak might actually score 20 goals in a season, its a miracle. You love your average, middle of the road players.

Advice, critiquing players not performing well, is not, not liking a player. This is not a fan club forum.

Critiquing players, or praising them backhandedly as you did, when they are playing very well can be considered not liking a player.

 

[Al14]

I think Carlyle broke the kid.

Gardiner seems to be broken too.

 

[King85Kong]

Advice, critiquing players not performing well, is not, not liking a player. This is not a fan club forum.

Critiquing players, or praising them backhandedly as you did, when they are playing very well can be considered not liking a player.

Everything I said was true.

 

[Diatomic]

Let's concentrate on the present, this year. Kadri playing mostly with Kessel and JVR, and now Lupul.

Last 15 games, 6 points, -8.

I know let's use the small sample excuse. I thought a fire hydrant could supposedly play with these players. Don't know why it is easier for Bozak and Holland(8 points in 10 games with Lupes) to play with them than Kadri is this year.

So, Kadri's in a slump?

Newsflash: Every player has slumps

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Everything I said was true.

You claimed Kadri Kessel and JVR were playing great together despite being scoreless 5 on 5 for 6 straight games with a huge minus.

I beg to differ.

 

[Erdinger]

So, Kadri's in a slump?

Newsflash: Every player has slumps

Unfortunately for Nazem he doesn't get to play the Leafs so he can break out of his big time.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So, Kadri's in a slump?

Newsflash: Every player has slumps

Yes, Kadri's slump goes back to last year after Cherry kissed him. Some slumps are longer than others.

 

[mikebel111*]

Kadri needs to find his mojo.
He is trying but its not going for him

Now he is making risky passes like he did in 1st period. He improved but its coming back. He is frustrated.

Hopefully he gets going

And take raymond off that line

Randy

 

[Diatomic]

I'd put Kulemin back on that 2nd line and demote brainless Raymond to the 3rd line, Kadri was successful in crashing the net last year maybe having a defensive winger can give him more freedom?

 

[King85Kong]

You claimed Kadri Kessel and JVR were playing great together despite being scoreless 5 on 5 for 6 straight games with a huge minus.

I beg to differ.

Yup, and Bozak has played well with them too. Seems to be a pattern. Plus minus can be very misleading.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yup, and Bozak has played well with them too. Seems to be a pattern. Plus minus can be very misleading.

Advanced stats are misleading.

Goals, Assists, wins, losses, and plus minus are very telling.

And Kadri Kessel and JVR were scoreless and a huge minus when they were together.

But somehow you kept posting after every game they were great together.

How do you win games when you do not score and are a minus? Please explain this to me.

 

[King85Kong]

Advanced stats are misleading.

Goals, Assists, wins, losses, and plus minus are very telling.

And Kadri Kessel and JVR were scoreless and a huge minus when they were together.

But somehow you kept posting after every game they were great together.

How do you win games when you do not score and are a minus? Please explain this to me.

You tell me you watch so many games, and don't pay much attention to stats (except when it helps your case), you should know players go cold. Where you get chances, but cant seem to barre the puck. Happens to everyone. Doesn't necessarily mean your playing bad. Other times its reversed.

 

[Stephen]

You tell me you watch so many games, and don't pay much attention to stats (except when it helps your case), you should know players go cold. Where you get chances, but cant seem to barre the puck. Happens to everyone. Doesn't necessarily mean your playing bad. Other times its reversed.

Kadri is a young player who has yet to establish himself in this league as any kind of legitimate top six player. He doesn't have the luxury of blaming his struggles on a slump because he's been in a slump in his career more than he has been good. That's the truth and he should get his act together.

 

[Dragao6]

Kadri is 23..when does a prospect lose that status?? how old?? We have been waiting forever!! He acted liek a top line C when askign for a huge contract and now look how he is playing...he only did well when playign vs other teams 3rd lines

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul (C)-Holland-Kulemin
Raymond-Kadri-Clarkson (when bolland returns maybe move him to #2 C and Holland to #3C, Kadri to wing)
Ashton-McClement-Orr

Phaneuf-Gunner
Gardiner-Gleason
Rielly-Franson (franson for Girardi??)

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You tell me you watch so many games, and don't pay much attention to stats (except when it helps your case), you should know players go cold. Where you get chances, but cant seem to barre the puck. Happens to everyone. Doesn't necessarily mean your playing bad. Other times its reversed.

You said Kadri, Kessel, and JVR were playing great as a line after every scoreless game they were minuses.

You made that ridiculous assertion, and I am asking you how a line can be great, when they do not score and are a minus.

That would defy all that is hockey, scoring goals and being a plus.

You made your bed, I am giving you the chance to explain yourself.

 

[King85Kong]

You said Kadri, Kessel, and JVR were playing great as a line after every scoreless game they were minuses.

You made that ridiculous assertion, and I am asking you how a line can be great, when they do not score and are a minus.

That would defy all that is hockey, scoring goals and being a plus.

You made your bed, I am giving you the chance to explain yourself.

So do points matter to you or not? Funny you say they do when it comes to Kadri but before this year you excused Bozak's point and plus/minus number. Which is it?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So do points matter to you or not? Funny you say they do when it comes to Kadri but before this year you excused Bozak's point and plus/minus number. Which is it?

Judging by your reluctance of answering a simple question which I have asked 3 times, how does a line play well when they do not score and are a collective minus. You have no answer, I guess you were wrong Kadri Kessel and JVR played great as you previously asserted.

 

[seanlinden]

You tell me you watch so many games, and don't pay much attention to stats (except when it helps your case), you should know players go cold. Where you get chances, but cant seem to barre the puck. Happens to everyone. Doesn't necessarily mean your playing bad. Other times its reversed.

Playing well in hockey means scoring more goals than the other team.

Playing bad in hockey means scoring less goals than the other team.

When Kadri was with JvR and Kessel, they played pretty bad. Basically little-to-no porduction except for a game against the Edmonton Oilers. When Bozak was there, they've played pretty good. Heck, the fact that Bozak leads the team with a +6 and Kadri is 2nd worst on the team with a -11 should tell you most of what you need to know.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Yes, Kadri's slump goes back to last year after Cherry kissed him. Some slumps are longer than others.

He started going into a slump once he was out of the depth scoring role. Even during the playoffs, his numbers were poor. I think if we keep him, we're going to need to acquire a PWF that can give him space.

Clarkson isn't compatible. He is more like a glue guy and like Darcy Tucker works better with larger forwards. I don't think he can physically carry a line on his own. In fact, I'd argue the same for Kulemin as well. Give Kadri someone like Andrew Ladd and I think we'll see much more consistent play.

 

[seanlinden]

He started going into a slump once he was out of the depth scoring role. Even during the playoffs, his numbers were poor. I think if we keep him, we're going to need to acquire a PWF that can give him space.

Clarkson isn't compatible. He is more like a glue guy and like Darcy Tucker works better with larger forwards. I don't think he can physically carry a line on his own. In fact, I'd argue the same for Kulemin as well. Give Kadri someone like Andrew Ladd and I think we'll see much more consistent play.

The problem with that logic is -- we've already committed all of the dollars for what needs to be our top 6 wingers. $8m for Kessel, $4.25m for JvR, and $5.25 for Lupul/Clarkson. If we want Clarkson on the 3rd line, we'll need to find a diamond in the rough / young / cheap player to supplant him (like Nikolai Kulemin was last year). There's no room to go for a proven commodity like Ladd, even if we had the assets to acquire him.

So, either Kadri needs to figure out how to become a much more consistent player & well rounded player with Lupul, or be replaced with somebody who can.

 

[TheVision]

I think Carlyle broke the kid.

Kadri's his own worst enemy, his attitude has broken himself.

Having said that, I still believe he'll be a good point producer in the NHL. I just don't want his unwarranted arrogance on the team. It will take some time yet, but in a few years, folks will wake up and realize the kid is uncoachable. Eakins seemed to do ok with him, but how many fires do you have to light under a young hungry prospect to get them going?

Management stuck to their guns on his contract, and have basically given him this and next season to prove he's worth what he thinks he is. Sadly, he's off to a miserable start to that contract.

And whoever mentioned the hat trick game against Ottawa, and the Cherry kiss of doom was bang on. From that moment on, Kadri went in the tank. Down the playoff stretch, was invisible in the playoffs, and has done very little to impress this season. He's been given the opportunity to play with the best players on the team and hasn't looked very good. Hell they even got a big Centre, from the same draft year, who has been developing just as long as Kadri, and still that competition can't get him going. And it's not just the slump offensively that's the issue. He's not the Catalyst he seems to think he should be.

Of course the Leafs woes are not squarely Kadri's fault, not even close. But having a 4th year pro, who's supposedly the next coming of Doug Gilmour, not showing any signs of drastic improvements in his game; that's a little disconcerting.

Hope he steps up his play soon, or is moved for a nice piece.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

The problem with that logic is -- we've already committed all of the dollars for what needs to be our top 6 wingers. $8m for Kessel, $4.25m for JvR, and $5.25 for Lupul/Clarkson. If we want Clarkson on the 3rd line, we'll need to find a diamond in the rough / young / cheap player to supplant him (like Nikolai Kulemin was last year). There's no room to go for a proven commodity like Ladd, even if we had the assets to acquire him.

Kadri has the potential to be a consistent point-per-point centre. He's actually not that different from Tyler Seguin. If he is proposed to be someone you can build around, Kadri is as well. Seguin has been playing much stronger with Jamie Benn and Valeri Nichushkin, who let him play his game.

What we may need to do is trade Lupul. He just isn't the kind of forward that could create room for Kadri. Much like how JVR creates space for Kessel, Kadri needs a similar forward to do the same. I would argue that Kessel requires a bigger centre, but Kadri would be better with a skilled PWF and a physical glue guy.

Ladd - Kadri - Kulemin.

So, either Kadri needs to figure out how to become a much more consistent player & well rounded player with Lupul, or be replaced with somebody who can.

That rarely ever happens. Stamkos is considered a workhorse and yet his defensive game is still pretty mediocre. One's playing style tends to stay the same. Take Crosby, he requires fairly cerebral guys like Dupuis and Kunitz. His game is elevated greatly.

Usually players tend to specialise rather then generalise. Kadri is an offensive forward and he needs to be treated as once. To expect Malkin to somehow develop a two-way shut down ability is probably not a good idea. Likewise, Kadri shouldn't be expected to do the same, but be better supported. When we had Frattin, he was able to play a pretty gritty game and hopefully Leivo, etc can help.

 

[seanlinden]

Kadri has the potential to be a consistent point-per-point centre. He's actually not that different from Tyler Seguin. If he is proposed to be someone you can build around, Kadri is as well. Seguin has been playing much stronger with Jamie Benn and Valeri Nichushkin, who let him play his game.

What we may need to do is trade Lupul. He just isn't the kind of forward that could create room for Kadri. Much like how JVR creates space for Kessel, Kadri needs a similar forward to do the same. I would argue that Kessel requires a bigger centre, but Kadri would be better with a skilled PWF and a physical glue guy.

Ladd - Kadri - Kulemin.

That rarely ever happens. Stamkos is considered a workhorse and yet his defensive game is still pretty mediocre. One's playing style tends to stay the same. Take Crosby, he requires fairly cerebral guys like Dupuis and Kunitz. His game is elevated greatly.

Usually players tend to specialise rather then generalise. Kadri is an offensive forward and he needs to be treated as once. To expect Malkin to somehow develop a two-way shut down ability is probably not a good idea. Likewise, Kadri shouldn't be expected to do the same, but be better supported. When we had Frattin, he was able to play a pretty gritty game and hopefully Leivo, etc can help.

He probably does, in the mold of a Mike Ribeiro. But reality is, he's not becoming one in Toronto. We've committed large dollars / term to Lupul, and with his injury woes, likely isn't a player who we can trade and get a powerforward like you're talking about for.... so we work with what we have.

It's going to be a lot more realistic to trade Kadri+ for a centre who is more well rounded and consistent than it's going to be to trade Lupul+ for some power forward that will create all of the room for him.

 

[deleteme24]

Stop defending Kadri ffs.

The kid doesn't care, has not hit the gym since we drafted him (So so weak) and is now in a slump.

Give half the talent this guy has to someone who gives a damn, and we're talking about a heck of a player.

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

Yes, Kadri's slump goes back to last year after Cherry kissed him. Some slumps are longer than others.

Actually, he was good at the start of the season. He was about PPG then. It was until the suspension when he started slumping. That being said, his slump has been going on for too long and I am frustrated by that. But Carlyle needs to supplement proper linemates because what he has isn't going well and you can't put ALL the blame on Kadri. This line needs a defensive winger like Kulemin on it, to open up space.

Stop defending Kadri ffs.

The kid doesn't care, has not hit the gym since we drafted him (So so weak) and is now in a slump.

Give half the talent this guy has to someone who gives a damn, and we're talking about a heck of a player.

Actually, last year he did hit the gym. He spent the summer with Gary Roberts, but leafs management didn't like that and wanted him to be with Anthony Belza (which he was this summer).


Honestly, for Kadri's career, I would be open to trading him because he will be a great player, probably not in Toronto. But I feel for him. But I would only package him for a #1 C. Nothing less.